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Bronwen’s recovery story – The “heart” of Cipro toxicity

Bronwen on Diamond Trail cropped

*The following is an individual’s story of surviving fluoroquinolone toxicity. It is not medical advice. Please see the disclaimer at the bottom of the story. Thank you, and please be cautious with all treatments.

In April 2014, I was prescribed seven days of Ciprofloxacin (2 X 500mg) for a possible urinary infection.  At 53, I was in great health, eating very well, going on many vigorous hikes, and taking exercise classes.

If I knew at the beginning of this rather awful adventure what I know now, I am convinced I would not have sustained so much damage. I am also convinced that if I had not taken full control of my own health as it got worse, I would now be on disability. But, one year later, I am mostly recovered, stable as long as take my supplements, and feel 80 to 90% of my past fit self. I am not sure if I will reach complete recovery. That’s OK. I am happy to be able to once again hike for miles, even if I’m not going up big hills with a backpack.

There is an additional sadness in this for me, as I relived some of my father’s suffering. Even though my family eventually (and too late) connected Cipro to my father’s devastating peripheral neuropathy, we had not realized that it also probably contributed to a number of his final health problems, including heart failure. I had forgotten the name of his antibiotic, or I never would have taken it. I guess I’m living proof that Cipro reactions may have a genetic cause.

The first day, my heart pounded loudly when I went for my noon-hour walk. I shrugged it off, as it reminded me of how my heart races during hot flashes. On the fourth day, my jaw got misaligned after eating popcorn and I realized I was unexplainably depressed. On the fifth day, my shoulder collapsed painfully when I put weight on it as I shifted seats in the car, and on the sixth day, when I wrung out a dishcloth, my right wrist tendon hurt excruciatingly. I finally clued in, stopped Cipro a day early, and started online research. What a horrible thing to find out that fluoroquinolone damage can be cumulative and symptoms were likely to grow in number and intensity! And, like so many others who do not have robust DNA damage repair mechanisms, that is exactly what happened to me.

TENDONS, LYMPH GLANDS, HEARBURN, NERVES: During week 1 and 2 (post drug) I had my first “set’ of symptoms. My initial tendon damage worsened to the point I could no longer play the cello, write properly, or open heavy doors without re-damaging the tendons. This was combined with episodes of tingling rushes and numbness running down my arms and into my hands and very occasionally my legs. My arms would feel weak and disconnected, so I would swing them around to make them feel “alive.” My research showed this could be a side effect of swollen tendons manifesting itself as thoratic outlet syndrome, but also reading that Cipro attaches to the GABA A receptors, I realized it might actually be nerve damage. These symptoms lessened within weeks, but did not completely disappear for many months.

I went for a massage and although it felt wonderful, this worsened things within the hour. I now realize it released toxins from my muscles were holding into my blood stream so my body reacted.

Other symptoms included very swollen lymph glands, especially behind my ears and in my armpits. Often, I could not close my jaw properly as the swelling behind my ears threw my jaw slightly out of alignment. This, and some heartburn, also gradually subsided over the next few months.

I feel fortunate that the temporary depression I experienced, while taking the drug, lifted and did not return. I know that alternations in cognitive and emotional states are very common for those that are “floxed.” The life-saving value of fluoroquinolones is due to their ability to permeate every cell in the body, including the brain, which is why, for those who react, it can create incredible damage in any number of organs. My most vulnerable organ was my heart, and this started to take most of my attention…

CHEST PAINS, HEART ARRYTHMIA, HEART POUNDING: The intermittent chest pains, which I had tried not to notice earlier, suddenly worsened at week 2 and worsened again at week 3. My blood pressure went sky high for a day or two and I ended up at the doctor’s office with what felt like a 20-pound weight on my chest, and my heart pounding so loudly I could feel the pulse in my toes. My doctor had known me for decades and agreed I was experiencing a drug reaction. After a few tests provided no enlightenment, she suggested I go to emergency if things got worse, and realizing she did not have the tools to help me, supported my idea of seeing a naturopath. I live in Canada, so do not pay for medical tests, although I do pay for a naturopath. That evening, I drove to emergency, as my heart seemed to be revving out of control. Emergency doctors smirked at my assurance my symptoms were caused by Cipro, and although the tests they chose confirmed non-life-threatening arrhythmia and high blood pressure, there were no other points of concern. I was relieved and frustrated in equal amounts. This is when I decided to start taking control – I bought a blood pressure cuff to monitor my own blood pressure and was pleased to see it soon dropped.

UPPER ABDOMINAL PAIN, UPPER CHEST PAIN, UPPER BACK PAIN, INTERNAL TREMORS, DRY SKIN:  Along with my heart symptoms, I started experiencing upper abdominal discomfort, along with upper chest and upper back pressure/tightness/pain that would increase through the day. The upper abdomen pains went away over the next few months and, in retrospect, I think the cause was likely a compromised liver. However, my whole chest circumference continued to feel fragile and the constriction of wearing a bra around the ribs felt damaging.  A year later, my best guess is that this is costochondritis (inflammation of rib cartilage) combined with myofascial pain, and I still suffer from it, but less.

At week 3, I started having some “whirring” internal tremors which, although occasional, were disturbing. It felt like electrical synapses were misfiring. These gradually disappeared after month 6.

I also became aware that my skin was extremely dry – that there were some rough scaly patches on my arms and even on my face. Initially, I couldn’t care less, as my other symptoms took precedence, but eventually I bit the end off my CoQ10 (lipid) capsule and put a drop or two in my moisture cream, and this really seemed to help.

GETTING WORSE – HEART AND FATIGUE:  Between week 3 and month 6 my heart gradually became worse and fatigue set in, with symptoms worsening through the day. Not only did my heart seem to pound, shaking the whole chest so I could not sleep on my left side or back, but unless I was being slightly active (walking) the beats were WAY out of time, bouncing all over the place, and I had a couple 30 minute periods of tachycardia.

I saw the naturopath and in addition to Omega 3, Vitamin C and D, Calcium/Mag, I started CoQ10, some Magnesium, and B vitamins. I also started some homeopathic UNDA remedies which I later dropped.

CYCLING OF SYMPTOMS: It took a while to realize that all the symptoms went in a 6 to 10 day cycle – from almost not present to overwhelming. This was very confusing to me and health care providers, because each time I improved, I hoped I had healed permanently. One year later, the cycle has faded away.

FOOD AND BOOZE: I’ve always eaten very well, but I wanted to maximize my chances of healing so moved towards a hunter/gatherer diet, eating lots of protein, nuts, vegetables and fruits. But, soon I had to add back whole-grain carbohydrates as I started losing weight. I also discovered that booze actually helped me. I began to dread evenings as symptoms would worsen. But I learned that when I started rocking in pain or worry and/or heart arrhythmia and pounding was at its maximum, one alcoholic drink would not only dull the pain, but actually calm down the symptoms too. It was actually quite miraculous. I know alcohol affects GABA receptors and that Cipro binds to them, so maybe it calmed some form of Cipro overdrive. I don’t know, but I know it helped me when I needed it.

TAKING MORE CONTROL:  At month 2, I had a day of reckoning, where I realized my heart was giving out unless I did something! It was frightening realization that I had to count on only myself and yet I was no expert. So, I wrote an email to my friends/family to send me strength and decided I would have become an expert as far as I could. It is interesting to think back on where I was psychologically at that point. I live on my own, and had no-one to either assist me or listen to my worries day to day. I also needed to continue working as I am the sole wage-earner. I have lots of people that love me, but it was hard to reach out to friends and family when you don’t want to worry them, or pressure them with more than they can handle. Besides, how could I ask them to believe what was going on in me, when I could hardly believe it myself, and I did not have the backing of some doctor’s prognosis? I had to be strong. I had to find the compromise between just maintaining forward motion for survival, but also taking full control of my own healing. Some days it felt like I was limping forward like an injured animal not being able to intellectualize what was going on, but just getting through the day so I could go back to sleep to make it go away. But, I knew my only way to heal was to find my own research and cure, and would spend two or three hours a day on the computer, digging past all the worries and hype to scientific studies.

I was determined not to take any other drugs unless I absolutely had to. This means I went against the suggestions of some friends, who advised I go to cardiologists and other specialists, but I did not want to prompt test results that might dictate a cocktail of more pharmaceutical drugs. My experience in emergency taught me not only how the medical system was not attuned to Cipro toxicity, but that I was in no immediate danger – I was not going to have a heart attack. I was convinced Cipro broke one or more chemical reactions in my body by removing core components and I needed to focus on adding back into my system what might have been removed or damaged by Cipro, and I would reconsider tests at the end of whatever healing process I could manage.

My first “aha” moment came when my research discovered a chronic fatigue specialist, Dr. Myhill, who connected symptoms, exactly the same as mine, to mitochondrial failure. I then googled Cipro and mitochondria and discovered that yes, Cipro and other fluoroquinolones cause mitochondrial dysfunction, and subsequent Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) overproduction which damages DNA, protein, and lipid damage and cellular death. Dr. Myhill said that the heart is 40% by weight mitochondria because it needs to produce a lot of energy, and if the mitochondria cannot work efficiently, it simply cannot pump through enough blood. Chest pain results when energy delivery to the muscles is impaired. There is a switch to anaerobic metabolism, lactic acid is produced and this results in the symptom of angina.  She recommended certain supplements to improve mitochondrial energy output which I then found replicated by some forward-thinking cardiologists. I started on D-Ribose, L-Carnitine and already was taking CoQ10 (see the SUPPLEMENT section below). Fifteen minutes after the D-ribose, I felt tingling all through my heart like cells were waking up. And so they were.

CURING THE OXIDATIVE MESS: Although my heart seemed a bit better, the fatigue did not lift. At this point I was bad enough to be on disability as I felt I was doing some damage if I pushed myself past standing up for 10 minutes, walking more than 50 paces, and napped every few hours. I think I was in some form of denial so I could allow myself to simply continue. When I was offered a more interesting job in a different town, I moved. In retrospect, I realize I was not really strong enough.

By the month 3, I was desperate. Through my research I realized that the “vicious cycle” of mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress makes it so that damage is accelerated as time goes on, and even though I was probably helping my heart make energy, there was too much accumulated mess for it to work. I found out that glutathione is the master naturally-occurring antioxidant in the body, and that if you naturally have low glutathione, or it is completely compromised by toxic overload, your body cannot complete the energy-producing methylation cycle properly, or regulate a variety of cell stresses. I read that NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) is the most important building block of glutathione and so started this as well as quality whey protein powder which is high in all the specific amino acids which are precursors to glutathione production. It didn’t work. I was fortunate to talk to a local natural supplement guru, who explained that if my methylation cycle was actually broken (forced to use an inefficient workaround), I would need to actually take the glutathione itself. He also found me a source of liposomal glutathione, a less expensive alternative to an IV of glutathione, which until recently was the only other format that would ensure absorption. I started it gradually as I read that releasing the toxins from their hiding places in your body can cause what is known as a herxheimer-type reaction, where the body reacts to the rise in mobile toxins by becoming unwell, before it can clear them and get better. I temporarily became really unwell, but I promised myself I would stay the course for two weeks, at which time I definitely started to improve. I continued to persevere and starting month 4, my energy returned and symptoms decreased. Finally!

I started focussing on why I might have had a reaction, taking methylated forms of folate and B12 in order to support a possible MTHFR gene mutation.

EXERCISE: I have always tried to “hike” out my problems. When I was first compromised, I tried to push my body too hard. It seemed there was always strength in the moment, and even though I felt a tenuous warning from within, I did not listen. As with chronic fatigue patients, the effects of overextension are felt with a crash the next day. However, as I gradually improved, I started pushing my body, which used to be very capable, to do what it was supposed to do, hoping to gently stress the mitochondria into better production, without creating more oxidative stress by overextending. At first I followed 10 minutes of an exercise video or took a 10-minute walk every day, but by month 5, I progressed to a one-hour exercise class or a 5km hike.

YAY MAGNESIUM! By the month 9 my fatigue was lifting, but my heart was beating way out of rhythm much of the time. I knew that the magnesium I was taking was minimal, although any more caused diarrhea. It wasn’t until I heard the Floxie Hope podcast with Ruth Young that I realized I needed to force my body to take more magnesium because it is an essential part of transporting electrolytes that regulate heart rhythm. I send away for magnesium threonate because it absorbs so well (avoiding diarrhea) and is especially effective in reaching the mitochondria inside cells, and magnesium oil, which I have been spraying on my skin ever since. Within a couple of weeks, my heart pounding and my arrhythmia was incredibly improved! The mag threnoate made my dreams go incredibly vivid, and as I improved, it seemed to keep me awake at night, so now I only take it in the morning. I stopped taking calcium I had been on for years as it can prevent magnesium absorption and I continued to perfect my mixture of supplements, adding MitoQ, PQQ and R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid (see SUPPLEMENT section below).

Then, I became a little overconfident, allowing my glutathione supplement to tail off. Within a month or so, I started regressing, and realized the cause. Even though my methylation cycle was operating, it still needed an outside source of glutathione to work properly. Instead of more liposomal glutathione, I decided to try NAC and quality whey, and this time, they brought my health up again in a few days. This means my methylation cycle is still compromised, and not crashed – a cause for celebration.

NOW, AT ONE YEAR: Healing is slow, but steady. I figure I am 80-90% better but realize I may always need to continue taking some supplements to maintain optimal health. I am more careful with myself. I nap when I need it, I don’t have more than two drinks, I alternate physical days with non-physical days, I eat mostly whole foods and I will pull away from stress overload. I still have some heart issues such as mild arrhythmia and on days where I overextend, the heart “thumps” a little too loudly. I chose to go for an echocardiogram and it shows my heart has stretched in places: my left atrium has a little dilation and I have mild mitral regurgitation. I don’t know if this is reversible or not, but I’m OK, and will be re-tested. Recently, I started feeling I actually had more energy than I needed when I was walking and this made me feel very joyful. I am walking up to 10 km, and I almost feel ready to try climb a hill or two.

The tendons in my right arm and my shoulders still feel shortened and I baby them a little, but they are not stopping any form of exercise. My muscles, except my heart, feel as strong as they ever were.

I still have upper torso discomfort appear many days, and now the constochondritis seems to also be affecting the cartilage around my trachea.  I focus on relaxing, breathing deeply, and it lessens. However, my upper back is tight with muscle knots, so every day I do some stretches and some strength exercises, as keeping active reduces the discomfort.  I don’t worry though – I know that I have now given my body everything I can to help it heal almost anything and I believe it is and it will. Patience.

WHAT I WISH I KNEW THEN:  I would suggest anyone taking any fluoroquinolone drug also take NAC as studies show it can prevent the resulting oxidative damage. I would also suggest that they take magnesium at a different time of the day to the drug and for a couple of months afterwards, in the best form they can find.

If someone becomes “floxed”, I would suggest they immediately go on supplements for mitochondrial health and liposomal glutathione (see SUPPLEMENTS section below) to see if they could prevent further damage.

FINAL THOUGHTS: I believe we have to stop expecting healthcare providers to be well-versed in the exact area of science our own body problem requires. This is because there is only so much each healthcare provider has the ability to assimilate, especially with internet information explosion. The way western medicine is set up, GPs are overwhelmed, trying to filter out who they should forward to a specialist, and specialists are more than likely to be only investigating one isolated part of the body, unlikely to piece together the systemic puzzle. Even the health care providers that do view the whole body, such as naturopaths, functional specialists, or doctors of diseases such as chronic fatigue, are not always able to benefit from each other’s insight.

Since the middle of the last century, our western society has been brain-washed into trusting science implicitly. But, science is an imprecise art. Just because something is discovered and given a name, does not mean its mechanism is understood. So much cannot yet be detected. But, nevertheless, the majority of our society expects a “scientific” drug to cure their every little problem. Very unfortunately, this has given the pharmaceutical industry almost infinite control to supply hope in bottles, whether it is effective or damaging. Even if science may strive to better our health, pharmaceutical companies strive to better their profits. And doctors, who we count on, have no choice but to rely on regulators persuaded by this multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry.

As drug consumers, we also need to realize drugs and even some “natural” cures work by shifting our body chemistry. Sometimes there is a miraculous cure, but often, the consequence of the shift is not considered. For instance, Acetaminophen reduces intracellular glutathione levels, which is also essential to remove toxins from your body.

We need to help facilitate information exchange between doctors, patients, and researchers. It is hard to question doctors. But we are each a specialist in observing our own bodies, and if our own precious health or life is compromised, we have a huge incentive to pull together research which might be valuable to all. I encourage others who have been “floxed” to document their symptoms, research, and cures in a way that is accessible to the medical community. It gives credibility to walk into a doctor’s office with a report, even if you are the author, and also facilitates the gathering of data for studies. I started my report in order to fulfill the “tell it on your own words” needs of the University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine “Fluoroquinolone Effects Study” ( and then used it for Health Canada Adverse Reaction reporting, and after seeing my report, geneticists in British Columbia, where I live, referred me to be part of a University of BC study on Adverse Drug Reactions.

I have conducted over 400 hours of research on my symptoms and Cipro. On this Floxie Hope website, Lisa has gathered extensive of resources, so I see little point in listing my own. However, I’d like to mention one more I stumbled upon recently as it gathers tons of research about MITOCHONDRIA and how they work and what to do when they don’t in a very comprehensive and easy-to-read way. The author, Lee Know, includes a section on why mitochondrial damage causes each symptom, what supplements are indicated, and why. Note: Although the author has not listed fluoroquinolones in the long table he supplies in his section on “Medication induced mitochondrial damage and disease,” I have been in contact with him and he is in absolute agreement.

I’ve been fascinated by what I’ve discovered, but because it is not mainstream, I’ve found I need to be careful when discussing it with those who are invested in traditional medical solutions. I’ve discovered energy production by the mitochondria is a foundation for health and well-being, and necessary for physical strength, stamina and even consciousness. This means that mitochondrial health is vital to every organ and body function and nurturing this process may in fact allow each our organs the best chance to heal their own imbalances. Compromised mitochondrial function is now seen as one of the leading causes of a wide range of seemingly unconnected degenerative diseases such as chronic fatigue syndrome, depression, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Huntington’s, fibromyalgia, cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, mitochondrial disease, infertility, some eye and hearing-related diseases, cancer, autism and more. And it should also be no surprise that a drug that compromises mitochondria, such as Cipro, is beginning to be implemented in actually prompting all the above listed diseases.

I’ve also discovered that each of our genetic makeup predisposes us to a differing set of set of potential ailments and these may or may not be realized. We may ride out these instabilities without symptoms, or they may be triggered by life, by stress, accumulated toxins, or by, in the instance of Cipro, an imposed chemical imbalance. I can’t help wondering if all the accumulated toxins from food additives, drugs, pesticides, and a huge number of industrial contaminants are shifting the point of balance in each of us closer to the tipping point. According to Lee Know “the field of mitochondrial medicine is exploding, with over 200 to 300 related studies been published each week.” It is too bad there is not an adequate mechanism for this information to reach the frontline healthcare providers.

I’m not yet sure what genetic tendency Cipro might have triggered in me – although I believe it is some ingredient in methylation, where the cell’s mitochondria DNA takes raw chemistry and turns it into energy. It could be that I have a genetic tendency to not metabolize folate well (MTHFR gene) or make glutathione efficiently. Or, it may be that I had already reduced the magnesium in my body to such a low level through the use of year so heavy-duty calcium supplements because extra calcium washes away magnesium. I have some genetic testing booked. I’m not sure if it will find what kind of strange thing happened to my body, but I’m just pleased my experience has been recorded to help build the body of science. And I’ve found one advantage: all these supplements have improved my brain function – I feel it works as well as it did when I was in my 20’s!

To support mitochondrial health – essential:

  • D-ribose – the raw energy every living thing makes in our cells – New Roots makes it at a reasonable price
  • L-Carnitine – I take both acetyl-L-carnitine and L-carnitine, because the first is best for your brain/nerves and the second for your heart, but either will do (reasonably priced)
  • CoQ10 – this can be expensive because you need top quality. I use a Thorne Q-best which is oil-based

To support mitochondrial health – good:

  • MitoQ – only one source, from New Zealand and expensive. But it is COQ10 altered to enter mitochondria more efficiently, so you can substitute it for some/all of above CoQ10
  • PQQ – a moderately-priced newish B vitamin that may help mitochondria replicate
  • R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid – moderately priced. Be sure you get the R+ version

To support oxidative mess:

  • Liposomal glutathione (you could use IV gluthione as well) -this is if your body is quite compromised. Other forms don’t absorb. Expensive but well worth it.
  • NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) – If you’re not as compromised but need some detox. It is a glutathione precursor
  • Whey protein – only use high quality, from cows raised without antibiotics! Contains all glutathione precursor amino acids

Additional oxidative stress help:

  • Omega 3
  • Vitamin C
  • (Vitamin E)

Other essential supplements

  • D3
  • Magnesium – ESSENTIAL! Cipro robs you of this. Magnesium threonate is easily and quickly absorbed into the mitochondria and brain. Magnesium oil is also quickly absorbed. Magnesium bisglycinate is excellent but did not work well for me

To support a body that MAY have been compromised by the MTHFR gene problems:

  • Methylated Folate (L-5-MTHR) and Methylated B12 (Methylcobalamin) – only a few companies make the methylated versions of these B vitamins. Ideally in a form with other B vitamins in a top quality B complex such as Thorne Stress B or AOR Advanced B Complex.

To support absorption and processing of everything:

  • Probiotics

** The story above is truthful, accurate and told to the best of the ability of the writer. It is not intended as medical advice. No person who submits his or her story, nor the people associated with Floxie Hope, diagnoses or treats any illness. The story above should not be substituted for professionally provided medical advice. Please consult your doctor before trying anything that has been mentioned in this story, or in any other story on this site. Please also note that people have varying responses to the treatments mentioned in each story. What helps one person may not help, and may even hurt, another person. It is important that you understand that supplements, IVs, essential oils, and all other treatments, effect people differently depending on the millions of variables that make each of us unique. Please use appropriate caution and prudence, and get professional medical advice.

557 thoughts on “Bronwen’s recovery story – The “heart” of Cipro toxicity

  1. Deb November 22, 2017 at 11:46 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    I believe you are in Canada, but I wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving anyway and again thank you for your support and encouragement over the last few months.

    • Bronwen Duncan November 22, 2017 at 7:04 pm Reply

      Thank you Deb! If I can help just one person I am pleased. Thanksgiving is a great time to give thanks for all kinds of things – whether in October in Canada, or November in the US. Or both!

      • J December 9, 2017 at 9:21 am Reply

        Hello Bronwen

        Would you be able to share what your symptoms of low iodine were and how you resolved them? I think I might have low iodine

        • Bronwen Duncan December 9, 2017 at 11:55 am

          Hi J.

          Before I took cipro I had a full blood profile testing done, as part of a Canadian study that were doing in depth health testing randomly across the country. I don’t think iodine testing is a common blood test. All my levels were great except iodine was really quite low. I didn’t really worry about it at that point at all especially as my thyroid function seemed fine, although I’ve always had a slight tendency to be hypoglycemic.

          Nearly 3 years after cipro I was trying to figure out how to tune up my healing as my resilience did not yet seem to be back, and there were a few clues in my body that I was researching. One was that my body had stopped making as much mucous. My research showed this could be connected to low iodine. Further research showed the fluoride in fluoroquinilone drugs can replace the iodine in our bodies – that the body reads iodine, bromine and fluoride the same way (they are beside each other in the periodic table) yet, iodine is essential for adequate operation for much more than just the thyroid. I also found out that the cause of poor connective tissue (I may be borderline ehlers-danlos, am very tall, have hypermobile joints, etc) may be the poor ability to absorb certain nutrients including iodine. I also came across a Facebook page that is dedicated to treating floxed people with iodine.

          All that was enough for me to start reading everything I could about iodine supplementation and it is very confusing as it is very controversial with those very for it and those very against it. Just google the subject and you’ll get all opinions. However, I started supplmentation, taking Genestra Liquid Iodine (many take Lugols), and it seemed to make a real difference, bringing back my resiliency and reducing other lingering symptoms such as rib pain. I started with less but currently still take about 2000 mcg a day, which is tons more than some recommend, and tons less than others. I cannot recommend anyone follow my example! You have to do your own research and/or talk to those practitioners you trust and make your own decision! Besides, we were all born into this world with differing bodies and body requirements.

          I have not asked for any iodine testing. At this point I’m choosing to listen to my body and follow my own research as that has been the recipe for my recovery.

          I have concurrently removed ALL fluoride from my life. My toothpaste is a natural with no fluoride, and fortunately, the tap water where I live is not fluoridated either. I would certainly suggest anyone who has fluoridated tap water, to use filtered water.

          I will probably also reduce the iodine I’m taking eventually too. I generally wait until my body feels it doesn’t want something anymore before I start reducing, and I’m not there yet.

          Hope this helps!

        • L December 9, 2017 at 12:09 pm

          Also good idea to eat a few Brazil nuts everyday. The selenium in them helps counteract fluoride which we end up ingesting no matter how careful we are. It’s in foods that are grown with fluoridated water.

        • Bronwen Duncan December 9, 2017 at 12:29 pm

          Yes – I forgot to mention brazil nuts. I put 2 in my smoothie each day. Selenium also helps the body absorb iodine.

        • J December 9, 2017 at 12:52 pm

          Thank you,
          When you mentioned not producing enough mucous are you referring to saliva or did you mean SIgA in the intestines? I had a comprehensive stool test done which showed low SIgA level and wondered if this is then related to iodine as well?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 9, 2017 at 4:34 pm

          Hi J

          I don’t know much about SIgA. But it seemed like I had low mucous in my intestines and I definitely had low mucous production in my nose. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

          I usually spend hours googling things right through to scientific studies, rather than ask the professionals, as they don’t always have the breadth of information at their fingertips.

        • J December 10, 2017 at 7:52 am

          Hello Bronwen,

          When you took a probiotic did it contain the s boulardi ? And did you ever take colostrum ?
          I wonder if those increase the mucous SIgA?
          Do you have any idea?
          And did you take anything for leaky gut? Would slippery elm be helpful to increase mucous too? I certainly have low SIgA and just hope anyone has any ideas about how to increase that level?
          I hear bone broth is good too and helpful to heal the gut.

        • Bronwen Duncan December 10, 2017 at 10:49 am

          This is moving outside of my area of experience as I never really had leaky gut issues.

          The probiotic I took did not contain s boulardi, but I have heard that this is good for gut problems.

          There was a little colostrum in the Harmonized Protein whey powder I had everyday. I just searched through google (not the search engine on this site) the words “floxiehope leaky gut” and it pulls up a number of stories that talk about colostrum helping leaky gut. Maybe they can answer your questions better than I? And searching “leaky gut colostrum” brings up all kinds of positive information. I believe colostrum is something that will not hurt you – very low risk – so I expect it is a great idea.

          And I’ve heard bone broth is great for all kinds of issues as well, but not something I have experience with.

  2. Nancy Samples December 4, 2017 at 12:05 pm Reply

    Thank you for what you’ve posted. I’m in month 2 of this. I’ve already had to have a pacemaker installed, which corrected some of the problem, but also had to go back on the meds for my heart for A-fib, and it doesn’t totally control it. I’m to go later in the month to a doctor for an ablation to get me off the meds.

    • Bronwen Duncan December 4, 2017 at 9:13 pm Reply

      Nancy: Wishing you success with the ablation. And healing ahead.

  3. Bet December 13, 2017 at 12:44 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen!Recently I notice that my heart arytmias going worse……Parossistic and caotic (few minutes)and Synus Tachycardia (at range 100)…I’m taking Mag,coq10 dribose and Lcarnitine….at the beginning I’ve see some good results but now It’s going worse and I’m soooooo confused…cycling of symptoms?I don’t Know but I’m really scared…I’ve done some Holter exam but It’s difficult or maybe impossible to take these brief moments……thank you for your attention.

    • Bronwen Duncan December 13, 2017 at 8:09 am Reply

      Hi Bet.

      Heart arrhythmia can be very worrying and confusing. I found I would have cycling of symptoms, and also find that symptoms got worse as each day progressed, or worse a day or two after I over-extended, and I decided to be OK with this, because the symptoms would improve again as well. However, I would always wonder if I was being foolhardy, and if I should see a cardiologist. I didn’t because I didn’t want interventions if the general trend of my heart showed betterment, and over time and various bumps, it did. However, I can’t even begin to understand how the heart works or the different types of arrhythmias. I know some are benign and some are not, and when I was much better I finally saw the cardiologist and was told the remaining premature beats I have are not dangerous. I can’t advise you to follow in my footsteps of not seeking medical advice. I expect everyone’s symptoms vary as well. You have to comfortable with your own decisions. Meanwhile, I have two pieces of advise. Remember that breathing is a tool. When we’re nervous we stress our bodies further with shallow breathing. Remember full calm breathing nourishes the body and calms the mind. The second tool I would use, is when my heart seemed particularly choppy, I would have a bath with epsom salts (magnesium) which would calm me, and often my heart too.

      I’m not sure if I’ve helped. So sorry you’re going through this.

      • J December 14, 2017 at 6:40 am Reply

        Hello Bronwen,

        You mentioned before that you took calcium supplements in the past, and so have I. In my research I found that it is not advisable at all for women to take calcium instead they should be taking magnesium vit d and vit k? What have you found on this subject. is calcium bad and how does it come out of the body if you have been on supplements?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 14, 2017 at 8:34 am

          Hi J

          Yes – I had been taking large amounts of calcium supplement for years because I have (or had) osteoporosis, and even though they contained magnesium, I also found out, like you, that calcium supplementation is not necessary if you have dairy in your diet, yet magnesium is essential. In an oversimplified way, calcium contracts and magnesium relaxes and this is needed in every cell in the body, having a big effect on the heart, for instance.

          I eventually bought two books on the subject, the most readable being Carol Dean’s The Magnesium Miracle. In it she talks about magnesium being nature’s calcium channel blocker. They work synergistically, and I would assume that over time magnesium would help clear out an abundance of calcium in the system.

          I will post a link to a Magnesium booklet that Carol Dean wrote for Better Nutrition magazine separately. It seems this sight won’t post my links anymore, so if no link shows up below, see if you can google it.

        • J December 14, 2017 at 9:03 am

          Thanks Bronwen,
          My understanding is also to take Vit D and Vit K with the magnesium for bone health. What is your thinking on that?

        • J December 14, 2017 at 9:06 am

          And I also wanted to ask you if you think your bone health has improved since taking magnesium?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 14, 2017 at 9:05 am

          That is what my research has shown as well

        • Bronwen Duncan December 17, 2017 at 11:39 am

          Hi J – I can’t be sure if magnesium has improved my bones or not but I assume it may have. The combination of taking piles of calcium for years along with having poor connective tissue may mean they are still compromised – but I’ve also read that the density of bone is not the only measure of bone health. In theory, magnesium should have helped them improve, but there are no outward symptoms of osteoporosis and I’ve decided not to get tested (no point – if I’m choosing not to take drugs and avoid sports where I can crash – downhill skiing, for example). I also take exercize classes and yoga, and hike, so figure this makes the surrounding muscles a resilient protection for the bones.

        • J December 17, 2017 at 2:26 pm

          Thanks for you reply ,
          May I ask you if you still take calcium supplements ? I have stopped and take magnesium with vit d and k . I hope it will help with my bone health . When I go for a massage , they always tell me I have some calcium deposits and just wonder if that means there is too much calcium in the soft tissues. I had a lung scan done which shows calcium plagues, so I wonder if that is related to too little magnesium and therefore too much calcium .

        • L December 17, 2017 at 2:57 pm

          I no longer take calcium either. Just mag d and k. 10000 mg d). Most of us get plenty of calcium added to foods and in greens nuts and others

        • Bronwen Duncan December 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm

          No I no longer take ANY calcium supplements but will continue to take 400mg or elemental calcium each day for the rest of my life, I expect. Apparently, if one has dairy in the diet, which I do, there is plenty of calcium anyway. I’ve heard it said that the big push for taking calcium was a dairy marketing ploy. If you have hard water, too, you’re getting calcium that way as well. IF you can, get hold of Carol Dean’s book: The Magnesium Miracle. It’s in some libraries.

        • J December 17, 2017 at 2:56 pm

          Thanks, I found magnesium L threonate from Naka it contains 48 mg elemental magnesium and mangle in magnesium L threonate 667 mg
          Is that what you take , I am not sure what the ingredients mean . Should I just look at the elemental magnesium dosage ?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 17, 2017 at 3:35 pm

          Yes – just look at the elemental magnesium amount. I took 2 of Mag Threonate in the morning – making 96 mg of this type of mag (they can keep some people awake if you take in the evening). THis is the best mag for brain and nerves and mitochondria. The recommended dose, I believe, is 3, but I was also using other magnesium. Initially, I was so completely short of mag, that my body would repel it and so had to “persuade” via skin methods of mag oil /spray and epsom salt baths along with 100mg elemental quantity or so of mag malate (some people like mag glyconate and others like mag citrate – these are all good options, but my body needed the muscle relaxing help from the malate). Over time, I cut out the oil/spray and worked my way up to 300 – 400 mg elemental amount of mag malate split over morning and evening plus the mag threonate. If I ever feel my heart is jumpy or my body achy, I still have an epsom salt bath as well.

        • J December 17, 2017 at 3:50 pm

          Are blood test for magnesium not very accurate? What would be a good test for magnesium or calcium levels?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 17, 2017 at 4:13 pm

          Hi J – I understand that blood levels of magnesium are basically irrelevant as 99% of your magnesium is in your cells, not blood. However, I am not an expert – my decisions for my own health were based on the online and book research I did and I interpreted this research for my own needs which may or may not be your needs. It is really important that you own your own decisions, not just follow my advice. I am not a health professional and feel it is wiser to directing you to good resources which is why I directed you to Carol Dean. Recently, I have been unable to put links in my email or they will not post, but please look up her information, including information on the types of mag test – there is much online if you can’t get hold of the book.

    • Bronwen Duncan December 13, 2017 at 8:35 am Reply

      PS. Bet – I now also remember that my heart did not seem to be getting better at about the 5 or 6 month mark, so that was when I decided to progress my treatment of oxidative stress in my body – boosting the glutathione in my liver to be able to clear out the mess caused by cell death, etc, that the body was unable to deal with.

      Although I initially tried NAC which is a glutathione booster, I found a natural pharmacist who explained this can’t help if your methylation cycle is actually broken, and that I would need to take some form of glutathione itself. This is controversial as well, as some people have found (e.g. those with amalgam fillings) that the glutathione can dislodge many toxins which overwhelm the body. I have amalgam fillings and certainly had a 2-week long herxheimer reaction which I just decided to stoically suffer through, where things got worse before they got better, as the body reacts to “loose” toxins that are dislodged from where they have been hiding on their way out through the kidneys and liver. But finally with glutathione the liver can actually handle them. I took lipomsomal glutathione and others on this site have used glutathione IV. Glutathione pills are basically useless as the glutathione from these does not make its way to the liver. Again – there is controversy – I’d read up everything you can on this site – within the older posts on my story (a lot of earlier comments), and on others, before you make your own decision regarding this.

  4. Bet December 14, 2017 at 7:24 am Reply

    Yes I have amalgams too…..I have taken oral gluthatione at the beginning but when I had extremely bad headache with this I ‘ve stopped to take it and the headache went away immediately…maybe the mercury in my amalgams arrived to the brain …I really don’t know….I want to take them away(amalgams)but now I ‘m unwell and I don’t want to stress my body so much….
    I’ve made an Holter exam and this is ok….benign aritmia…but now I really don’t know….maybe I’ll have another soon.

  5. Leah February 21, 2018 at 5:19 am Reply

    Thank you so very much, Bronwen, for sharing your story and for titling it so aptly, making it easier to find. It is my story exactly, almost to the T. It is such a relief to find other people articulating what I experienced physically, mentally, emotionally. And a second, even greater relief to hear it is possible to recover.

    I got floxed just recently, in December, after three terrible days on Cipro for a suspected UTI. It gave me the strangest, most intense insomina…nothing like that had happened to me before — but even though I didn’t sleep, I didn’t feel tired either. Dizzy and foggy, yes, but wide awake. Shortly after, random leg/chest/abdominal pains would take turns appearing in my body, from burning to shooting, leaving for hours only to return later. Alarming, but they passed, so I kept hoping it was just a short-term phenomenon.

    By the fourth night I finally went to the ER for the chest and abdominal pains (mostly tachycardia and arrhythmia). I thought I was on the brink of a coronary. But the ECG, chest Xray, bloodwork and urinalysis showed everything was “perfect” which was, as many sufferers on these forums have said already, the scariest part of all — the problem was “sub-clinical” (a term I learned much later from my naturopath) and I was totally on my own.

    What worked for me? Lifestyle makeover, mostly: throwing away my fluoride toothpaste/mouthwash and going all-natural, throwing out my entire fridge/freezer/pantry and starting over 100% organic (agricultural pesticides have fluoride, and the more processed the food, the more fluoride is in it), throwing away my non-stick and aluminum cookware (which have fluoride – go stainless steel & cast iron only), no more drinking tap water, bottled water with 0 ppm of fluoride only (the city I live in adds fluoride to the public water supply; Britas don’t fliter it). HMF Intensive probiotics, D-ribose as recommended by you, lots of rest and yoga. Anything with a “Q” in the name I don’t take, out of quinolone fear.

    It’s been a budget-busting, medical-system-faith shaking, heart-sickening ride, but I’m 70% of the way back. The effect of reading so many tragic stories on here is that I feel fortunate I got off so lightly. I can control my toxicity symptoms mostly with diet.

    Very interested in trying IV glutathione and infrared sauna next. The journey continues.

    • Bronwen Duncan February 21, 2018 at 8:22 am Reply

      Hi Leah – I’m so glad my story has been of some help to you. You obviously are being very proactive and listening to your body to find out what works. Don’t forget to take magnesium (malate, citrate, or bisglycinate) if you’re not already. I created a chart at one point that identifies at least some of what cipro does to the body. I can’t seem to post links, but search this site for “Fluoroquinolone Mechanisms Chart” to find it. Also later in my journey, I discovered that iodine seemed to be a big help to me – discussion above on Dec 9.

      Wishing you healing.

  6. Andy. February 22, 2018 at 2:21 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    I have been reading your post with interest. I highly suspect I have damaged mitochondria from using ciprofloxacin ear drops 4 times a day for 15 days. I was prescribed them back in August 2016 for cholesteatoma and an ear infection, unbeknown to me I had no ear drum and the drops were largely washing down my eustatian tube into my mouth. I would get a strong aftertaste of the drops and would spend 10-15 minutes each time rinsing my mouth with water and spitting out to get rid of the taste. Within a week or two of finishing the course I began experiencing extreme thirst and dry mouth, basically an extreme lack of saliva. Still now I suffer from this problem of lack of saliva. For a long time I suspected I had sjogrens syndrome and hadn’t connected the damage to the cipro, but all my bloodwork and tests indicate no autoimmune issues. Looking back now it seems glaringly obvious that the cipro has caused this. I googled cipro and damage to salivary glands and it even comes up with scientific studies that were done in rats that prove how cipro basically can destroy salivary glands at the mitochondria cell level.

    I do take ubiquinol coq10, I have done for almost a year as when I suspected I had sjogrens I had read on a sjogrens forum how ubiquinol helps to stimulate and increase saliva flow in people who have dry mouth, and it does help, although I still don’t produce enough and it is particularly pronounced at night where I wake up constantly needing to sip water. Not only that I do worry about my teeth.

    I was very interested in the supplements you list that you say have helped with mitochondria function. In particular Liposomal glutathione. Can that actually help repar mitochondria in some way or does it hust help rid out the damaged stuff and toxins. What is your take, if I do have as I suspect damaged mitochondria impairing my salivary glands is there really any way back from this? If I do nothing could it get worse over time as I’ve read how damaged mitochondria can replicate over time, I guess leaving me with a dryer and dryer mouth as saliva flow decreases more and more. Apologies for all the questions, I am somewhat a novice this is all new to me I have been reading lots online, some of which is very hard to understand.

    I did purchase some mitoq also but haven’t yet taken any.

    Kind regards,

    • L February 22, 2018 at 10:42 am Reply

      Hey Andy, I too had extremely dry mouth post Cipro…one of over 30 side effects. Just wanted to say that mine eventually just went away. Now I have had over 100 IVs over the last 3 years, but the dry mouth went away for me in the first year. (Now there are actually times where I produce too MUCH saliva.) I also just got an order of MitoQ. I am afraid because of continued fatigue and breathing issues that I have damaged mito. It’s so expensive, but they have a money back guarantee that if you buy the three-pack and at the end of that time you are not satisfied, you can return the empty bottles and get a refund less a shipping fee…so I am doing that. I just started less than a week ago but will post when the time is up if I feel it helped. (I had been on ubiquinol 100 2x day.) I have had a number of glutathione IVs and “pushes” and do believe they helped. We all react so differently though, it’s hard to say.

      • Dee February 22, 2018 at 10:55 am Reply

        Hi L!! I haven’t chatted for awhile with you lately!! How have you been doing? Are you still busy acting again?? I hope you feel like you have your life back as it was!! How is your tinnitus doing? Any better? I am starting into my 9th month and slowly improving as time goes on! I am mainly dealing with bad sleep, anxiety and a low buzzing tinnuitis in my ears. All of those symptoms have improved but still have a ways to go!! I am dying for a glass of wine but think I will wait until the year mark! When did your sleep and anxiety feel like they were close to normal again?? By the way I have both dry mouth and dry eyes which have both made some steady improvement. Not completely gone but better! I hope all is going well for you now!! I am hoping by a year out that I feel mostly recovered!!🙏🏻 Dee

        • L February 22, 2018 at 11:08 am

          Hi Dee, Well I did a show at Christmas with a fantastic cast–including some Broadway actors. Sadly, I had major breathing problems and most of my paychecks went to IVs! I was using my rescue inhaler, which I hadn’t used for years, five times a day. But I got through. I have tried so many different supplements and I am not sure which one really helped, but I am down to 1x day for my rescue inhaler. (I think it was something called black seed oil. Truly disgusting. Tastes like motor oil.)

          I had my first post-Cipro wine at just around the one year mark. I can no longer tolerate as much as I could before (which is probably good) but now I have a glass of wine about 4 nights a week—and the occasional single-malt scotch!

          My through-the-roof anxiety subsided around 14 months, although I think it is still a tad higher than pre-Cipro, but not too bad. My insomnia improved a bit around 9 months and back to normal around a year. I still have occasional bouts of insomnia, but I did before too, so I am pretty much back to normal on that.

          the tinnitus is making me crazy. Like cicadas 24/7. Constant hum/buzz. Sometimes it’s really loud too. I got so excited because I read about a study on mast cells (and I think a big part of the breathing issue now is constant post nasal drip which ends up in the lungs, thanks to damaged mast cells) so anyhow,this study said that they gave 3 mg of melatonin to a group for 30 days and not only did most see an improvement with the mast cells, many had their tinnitus improve! I was so excited! Well, the first night I didn’t sleep at all, and the second night, an hour after falling asleep, I jolted awake with night terrors. IT was awful. Couldn’t wait to get the lights turned on. So I ended that experiment. I know 3 gr is a high amount for melatonin, but it is what was used in the study…

          I also had dry mouth and eyes and those are much improved…even my floaters are SO much better. Unfortunately the vision in one eye is much worse …went from 20/25 to 2/65…One thing I still have though is really dry skin esp on my hands. They almost feel like emory boards.

          Glad you are doing so much better!

        • Dee February 22, 2018 at 12:24 pm

          L. I don’t know if you remember but I took a “half” mg of melatonin about 3 months out and had a horrible reaction!! I was up all night, heart pounding and terrible anxiety! The next day I developed horrible loud ear noise throbbing and buzzing. It was actually brought on by the melatonin!! And only a half mg of it!! It never has stopped since then but it has gotten a little more quiet and less noticeable. I pray that in the next few months it will go away! Didn’t your tinnuitis come on as a late symptom?? I won’t touch melatonin with a 10 foot pole the rest of my life!!! How do you do with the wine? Do you get spacey or foggy?? I know you drink a low fluoride brand from trader joe? What brand do you drink? I want to try half glass but want to get low fluoride!

        • L February 22, 2018 at 12:44 pm

          You know I’m not sure exactly when the tinnitus started. I had SO much going on, esp with the gasp for breath and visual/olfactory nightmares going on…it could have been going on for a while before I actually noticed it. In fact, one day I was sitting at a friends house…this was like 10 months down the road. I asked her if she hear total silence when it was quiet. I just became aware of this kind of hissing/buzzing sound and thought that it was like ambient noise. So I think it was there, I just didn’t realize it right away. Plus I had always been under the impression that tinnitus was only a ringing sound, which I had heard briefly on various occasions. Anyhow, it has definitely gotten stronger over the months.

          RE the wine…It just feels totally normally. I just notice that whereas before I would want a second glass, now I rarely do. I have to say, that first post-Cipro glass was nice for a couple reasons…it wasn’t just that I enjoy having a glass, but it made me feel like like was getting back to normal again.

          Trader Joes no longer carries the one I really liked (A French organic), but this is pretty good. IT is called Albero. It is a Spanish organic wine. There is a red label and orange label and I think I like the orange one a bit better. They are both like red table wines. I have had California wines on occasion, and honestly I felt no differently afterwards. I just thought since I am so careful with drinking nonfluoridated water, it is probably better if I also get wine from a country that doesn’t fluoridate since grapes are like 85% water (MOST of Spain does not. ) Also, I have read that even organic wines from Ca have been found to have pesticide residue. But if you are not so set on an organic wine, I would just try a wine from any country that doesn’t add fluoride (eg France, Germany, Italy) —which is most of them now! Here is a list f ones that still do, and Spain is on there, but only 11 % I tried to find out if the place where this wine comes from is in that 11% but was not able to.

        • Dee February 22, 2018 at 2:35 pm

          L. Thanks for the info on the wine! Although it is my understanding that the reason Calif wines are so high in fluoride is because of the pesticide they spray on the grapes contains fluoride so it absorbs into their skin and ends up in our wine. I read somewhere that Washington state doesn’t use that pesticide because of different pests so maybe fluoride free wine from Washington state? I will try to research that more! I hope your ears improve! I understand how annoying it is! Hopefully with time your ears will quiet down! Mine too!!🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • Bronwen February 22, 2018 at 9:43 pm Reply

      Hi Andy

      Why are you holding off on taking the MitoQ? It is basically a form of CoQ10 which has been chemically changed so that it can enter the mitochondria much more efficiently. I switched from CoQ10 to MitoQ as soon as I knew it existed. Of course it is quite awfully expensive!

      I am not familiar with saliva issues with Cipro, however, I am with mitochondria issues, and I believe everyone gets affected in differing parts of their bodies due to things like genetics. For instance, my brain was less affected than many, yet my heart much more affected.

      Liposomal glutathione – will it help the mitochondria? Indirectly. It will replace glutathione that has been wiped out in your body as it has tried to deal with the onslaught of toxins and ROS (reactive oxygen species-induced oxidative stress) brought on through cell death via the Cipro reaction. There is a vicious circle – ROS production is part of the cell cycle, but when the mitochondria are damaged and cannot produce energy, then cells can’t work and the body can’t clear the mess out of the way fast enough so it gets more burdened, the ROS go up and the glutathione (the body’s garbage collector) gets used up. So, will liposomal glutathione help mitochondria – not directly, but it will clear up the mess so the mitochondria can start doing their job better. However, the glutathione will pull any toxins stored away in any parts of the body, and when these release you body can react the same it did as the toxins arrived – it has an immune reaction known as Herxheimer reaction. For some people it can be too much, especially as this might include mercury that has built up for years from dental fillings, etc. However, I’ve had mercury in my fillings for 30 years and I found a huge difference by taking liposomal glutathione (some people do glutathione IV instead) but you must make your own decision and do your own research. There is controversy you can look at on this website. IF you decide to, the trick is to take it slow with say, a quarter dose for a week before inching the dose up, and expect to have some level of a reaction, but manage the dose so it is not too much.

      I have another suggestion as well – later on I found a big improvement by taking iodine and it seems there may be a connection to saliva – I take Genestra iodine drops, but many people swear by lugols. I’d started seeing a number of comments about low iodine and Cipro because of the fluoride in the Cipro, as a fluoroquinilone, going in and replacing the iodine in the body. Apparently, bromine, iodine, and fluoride all sit beside each other in the periodic table and the body “thinks” they are the same thing. Therefore, if you take fluoride into your system it starts replacing the iodine, which is necessary in many organs, not just the thyroid, and this actually stops some body processes from being able to work well! I can’t seem to post links on this site without my post disappearing, so please google “Iodine in evolution of salivary glands and in oral health” and I’m sure there’s lots more information to find as well. Iodine supplementation is controversial as well, but from my reading it seems a huge percentage of our population is short in iodine and the Japanese diet is vastly higher in their iodine intake. Anyway, once again, poke around the internet and come up with your own conclusion. I can’t advise you take it, just that you research the possibility. If you do, you also should take selenium – very easy to do in the form of a couple of brazil nuts each day.

      I have also got the point where I think everyone who has any body problem should make sure they take magnesium, a full-spectrum B complex (with methylated forms of B12 and folate) and probiotics of some kind. My article above addresses all these.

      I know what you mean about it being hard to understand so much of the technical medical/natural practitioner information found online. It takes hours of digestion, and sometimes it is overwhelming. So good for you to reach out.

      Will you heal in time? – yes, I really believe the your body is trying very hard to do so right now. You just need to give it every chance by supplying a few ingredients (pieces of chemistry) which have been robbed from it, and by eating as well as you possibly know how to fill in the other chemistry gaps that we can only guess at. And of course TIME is what give our bodies the opportunity they need to rebalance too. Wishing you healing,

      • L February 22, 2018 at 10:22 pm Reply

        Bronwen, I suspect if we took pictures of each others vitamin shelves they would be hard to tell apart! My ND started me on iodine very quickly (3 years ago and I still take it–iodyzine); I also take a b complex and 5-mthf since I was found to have that genetic mutation; I started taking mitoQ and am doing the 3 month trial (had been on ubquinol). I take anywhere from 400-600 mg of magnesium and I have had a LOT of glutathione in IV, pushes, liposomal…I also take NAC, a precursor which also helps with asthma. Good informative post!

      • L February 23, 2018 at 9:26 pm Reply

        well, I just googled cipro and dry skin, and you came up! I have posted on your story before but just rereading—we have SO much in common. had horrible pressure around the bra area. It actually hurt to wear one, and I could not have a seat belt either—I had to hold it away from my body. I also had heart issues—still have fluid around heart three years later (but no other heart issues.) But for months i had crushing horrific chest pain. Several nights I was certain I was having a heart attack but purposely did not call an ambulance because at that point i really was hoping it would kill me. (I gasped for breath for months (a researcher suggested mitochondrial damage to the heart muscle), had major vision damage and terrifying oflactory nerve damage, so i just wanted out.) Also had pain, tendon issues, gut issues (lost 1/4 my body weight), a lot of what you had. ( I did have long term severe depression, anxiety, paranoia). Anyhow I really related to many of your side effects. I am now three years out and still saddled with several but light years from where I was.

        Anyhow, I just read about you using coq10 in your moisturizer. Like you the skin was the least of the problems, but here I am three years out and sometimes it feels as if there is zero moisture— in my hands esp. Just feels so strange. Do you still get that dry, dry, moistureless feeling?

        • Bronwen February 23, 2018 at 10:53 pm

          Hi L – yes our floxed bodies had many things in common. I’d forgotten I put CoQ10 in my moisturizer!! Yes – my skin feels very dry, but I have two other things going on for me which mean I can’t tell if this continues as a cipro reaction or not. Not only am I mid-50s so menopause causes a drier skin, but I also moved from living within a very moist environment on Vancouver Island of BC, Canada to a very dry environment in Whitehorse, Yukon. So, these days I’m actually pouring moisturizer on my face and dealing with cracked thumbs – but that also seems commonplace here. Wish I could be more helpful!

        • L February 23, 2018 at 11:01 pm

          Yeah this is weird. Not just normal dry skin but it feels like cardboard. Like there is virtually zero moisture in the skin. And it comes and goes too. Anyhow. May give the cq10 a try in the lotion. Of just buy lotion with it in it

  7. Andy. February 23, 2018 at 4:19 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    Thanks so much for the reply and explaining in more detail about the role of liposomal glutathione, and for the words of encouragement. And to all the others here who have commented, it’s very much appreciated. From what I have read online it does appear cipro can cause salivary gland damage, partly through an assault on the mitochondria, studies have shown this and I guess my taking cipro as ear drops and having them indirectly entering the mouth would have put me at great risk of this. It is sad but also very encouraging to hear from others on here who have been left damaged by cipro yet have gone on and found ways to heal and help their bodies to repair the damage done by this awful drug. I really do believe we can make our situations better and heal from the damage done by cipro.

    I had looked into iodine somewhat and how the fluorine in cipro has a tendency to bind to the iodine receptors in the body. Apparently the salivary glands require iodine to secrete and function so yes I think it would definitely be an avenue for me to look into. I do think my problem is largely down to damaged mitochondria but I don’t doubt that having had the cipro drops in my mouth that the fluorine would have bound to receptors in the oral cavity, potentially disrupting the saliva function also. I have ordered some Lugo’s iodine, some idorol tablets and selenium, I will see how I get on. Like the Liposomal glutathione I will have to go slow and steady as you say because of the potential for a Herxheimer reaction.

    Thanks everyone for the advice, encouragement and support. All the doctors I’ve discussed this with have flat out denied that cipro, or any antibiotic for that matter could cause damage to salivary glands. I dont believe that for one moment. It can become very discouraging when doctors brush you off and just dismiss your health problems as anxiety or treat you like your almost making these things up. Unfortunately we are the ones left damaged and have to live with the consequences. I’m glad for sites like this, it makes you believe there is hope.

  8. Where There’s a Will There is a Way March 2, 2018 at 4:44 pm Reply

    Omg I have been floxed too! I am an Australian who was given this horrible medication to treat typhoid fever when in Mexico. This was late 2015. Fast forward I thank goodness found an amazing gp who was convinced my issues, so called oa of wrist neck and knees is more likely tendons. Damn I had been doing intensive yoga for twelve months thinking my health needed increased exercise. Clearly this escalated the inflamation. My gp identified I was under methylation and add to that my copper levels were very high. I was not absorbing any nutrients and prescribed compounding medicine to address the issue. My blood levels over all were good though he wants them optimised. This is now week two of my cocktail of supplements all of the above you described plus b6 !

    I am hoping and praying my body can recover and I can continue on my journey without inflamation and pain.

    If anyone can add or guide me here in Australia I would be grateful as I too cannot involve all my family and friends with my fears and stress. Kes

    • L March 2, 2018 at 5:04 pm Reply

      glad you found out at least now. and you were very fortunate to have a gp who believed you! do you know how rare that is? hope you find a fellow aussie on here

      • Where There’s a Will There is a Way March 2, 2018 at 5:41 pm Reply

        Yes I don’t think he realised it was flox he is not available till Monday. But he did believe it was not degenerative or ra and did not pump more prescription drugs. Essentially my bloods are good except for what I described but the inflammation and feeling as tho I have needles,
        big needles in my knees is a
        a killer . Thx for response

        • L March 2, 2018 at 6:02 pm

          Without going into my dozens (many terrifying) side effects, I also had popping in my knees, back, hips. I later ended up having torn meniscus. One of the great things I found for this was an injection of prolozone in each knee, which helps your body heal itself naturally. I mention this not knowing what is causing your knee pain. When you go to the doctor you might want to take copies of these “dear doctor” letters written in medical-ese by doctors who themselves were floxed.

    • Bronwen March 3, 2018 at 2:02 pm Reply

      Hi Kes:

      I am so glad you found this site. Definitely read a bunch of stories and reach out to people who seem to have had a similar journey. We all have different paths to healing but the very large majority of us do. The fact that you’ve still been able to do yoga shows me that you’re not only going to be OK but that you have the right attitude to try to heal yourself!! It just takes time, and faith that your own body is trying its very best to heal itself, and the need to get the right nutrients which were stolen by the fluoroquinilone back into your body! Listen to your body, and realize that healing can be a slow process, with bumps that seem to cycle up and down, but month by month you will see progression.

      I totally understand how alone you can feel as well, because you’re not wanting to worry the people who love you most. In my experience, as well, they are unsure whether to believe the extent of what has happened as it seems totally absurd and outwardly, we don’t look like our bodies have been devastated – it’s like an invisible ailment. Even medical tests don’t show up much! It wasn’t until I started showing my family some of the new fda warnings that I really had their attention. But even then, how do you ask for help or support without worrying them too much? In the end I learned how strong I was. It is just day by day and you’ll find you have abilities you never knew about! Listen to your body and just be gentle on yourself some days!

      I am also pleased you seem to have a receptive GP that understands methylation. It is a very complicated chemical process that supports energy production in every cell in the body and is also therefore connected to mitochondrial health. I ran into an “alternative” pharmacist who recognized that my methylation cycle was not only limping but very impaired/broken. He explained that when certain pieces of chemistry in the body are missing, the body will figure out much inferior work arounds, using the chemistry/nutrients that is available to it. As we know, fluoroquinilone drugs pull certain pieces of chemistry from the body (you might want to reference the chart I created of these affects – I can’t seem to post links so within the search box on this site look up: “Fluoroquinolone Mechanisms Chart”). My theory about being floxed is that some of us (genetically, perhaps) have less of these essential nutrients in reserve, and so can’t ride over temporary depletion. This also would explain why those who have taken a fluoroquinilone drug before and were fine, suddenly are not with the next dose – they’ve reached that critical tipping point in their bodies. Of course, going from this theory, it is also interesting to try to figure out what it might be in one’s own genetics which created a nutrient depletion. Certainly, I’ve always eaten extremely well, so it was not for lack of eating a balanced diet, and I know this is true of some others as well. I’ve also discovered a really useful explanation of methylation – on google, look up “Kendal Stewart methylation overview for professionals pdf”.

      To fix the methylation cycle and indeed mitochondria and floxed symptoms, you need to do two things. You need to give your body the nutrients/chemistry it needs so it can retain normal functioning, and you need to help your body mop up and dispose of all the mess (oxidative stress) that has built up by broken chemical reactions. And really there is also a third – patience!

      First- adding back the chemistry bits which have been stolen. The cocktail of supplements you’re starting is awesome, but you will need to continue supplementing when these end and maybe during as well. Most important if you’ve been really compromised in my opinion are magnesium, MitoQ, a great B complex ad possibly iodine.

      Magnesium – As I wrote in my story my body needed it so badly to begin with it couldn’t really deal with it, and so I had to start with epsom salt baths and magnesium oil (spray) on the skin, graduating to Mag Threonate and another mag that can be easily aborbed – Mag Malate, Mag Citrate or Mag Bisglycinate. Mag Threonate is unique in that it enters the mitochondria and brain where other mag can’t. I started on 100mg malate and 50 mg Threonate, and very gradually worked up to 400-500mg malate and 100mg Threonate.
      MitoQ – This is made in New Zealand and is very expensive, but well worth it. I started with half dose, and then took 10mg.

      B complex – As the methylation link a mention above mentioned, VERY important is Folate in a form which is already methylated – meaning the body does not need to convert it from an unusable form before using it – and some bodies are not able to well as they have MTHFR gene issues (one potential cause of reacting to fluoroquinilones!) A methylated form of B12 is also importanat. I’m in Canada and we have an AOR advance B for the methylated forms of B12 and folate plus a well-balanced selection of all the other B vitamins. Thorne puts out a good one too but it is more expensive, and I expect there may be something else available in Australia.

      Possibly important is iodine – I don’t know as I got to it at year 3 in my healing and it seems to have been the final step. Iodine pushes out fluoride and if you are fluoride poisoned it may help. I started at 750mcg and now take 3mg where I may stay. Do your own reading on iodine as it too is controversial.

      The best thing it to listen to your own body, because if upping the amount of a supplement starts improving a chemistry pathway (such as methylation) that has been compromised, it can also releases toxins that have built up and this can make the body react against them. This is called a herxheimer reaction because the body is trying to repel them, even as they are loosened from hiding places on their way out. So, slow and steady with all changes! Up doses slowly.

      So how do you help the toxins and oxidative stress leave? You have to pump up your poor liver and the most important factor here is glutathione– Whey protein is great as a glutathione precursor, but probably not enough on its own to deal with the oxidative stress in your body. NAC (N-acetylcysteine) is a protein precursor to glutathione, but it can only work if you still have some glutathione capability. I had to resort to taking glutathione itself. This only works if it is liposomal glutathione (wrapped in fat so it makes it to the liver before the body digests it as just food) or IV glutathione. I found NAC did not work until glutathione could clear off some of the oxidative stress first. There is much controversy on this site about glutathione, but all I can say is it was essential to my healing. But again, we are all different so please read about the controversy in the comments on my page and in other stories too, and make up your own mind on what is best for you. Some people have found (e.g. those with amalgam fillings) that the glutathione can dislodge many toxins which overwhelm the body. I have amalgam fillings and certainly had a 2-week long herxheimer reaction which I just decided to stoically suffer through, where things got worse before they got better. I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half and then none.

      So, there’s a novel of advice for you. Hope some of it is helpful and hope you find some calm as you continue to heal!

      Remember even a smile is a step to healing.

      • L March 3, 2018 at 2:20 pm Reply

        All great advice. And actually I recently started the MItoQ (yes it is expensive!) but if you do a three month trial and feel it didn’t work, they will refund. Unfortunately their site was recently hacked so my credit info may have been taken. They seemed to get on top of it pretty quickly. (so now I imagine they are super secure! good time to order 🙂 )

  9. Genevieve March 2, 2018 at 5:56 pm Reply

    Hi Kes, If you are on FB and join the Fluoroquinolone toxicty group, you can do a search from there for Australians and you’ll find lots of them. I’m glad you figured out the culprit. Knowing the cause of this is the first big step in getting better. So sorry for the big needles in your knees. You’re in good company, though.

  10. Irene March 5, 2018 at 7:20 am Reply

    Have you, or anyone, ever had your immune system tested -IgG, IgM, IgA, ESR, and other blood tests done? Especially your free light chains? Were your test results normal? I had a severe reaction to nitrofurantoin (macrobid), 5 day course, also had been exposed to cipro in 2012, my end reaction is similar to those who have been floxed. However I may have developed an illness called AL amyloidosis as a result. Everything that happened to me was sudden, drastic.

    • Bronwen March 5, 2018 at 8:14 am Reply

      Hi Irene: I am not familiar with those blood tests. As far as Amyloidosis goes, this is not the first time I’ve seen it in conjunction with a cipro reaction. My father was told he had amyloidosis. At that point, no one knew his body had been struggling must awfully with a cipro reaction for years. Cipro can cause cell death. Amyloidosis is when fibril proteins build up within tissue in various parts or organs of the body. I’ve always suspected the two are connected, but, of course, I am not expert! So sorry you are going through this.

      • TM March 5, 2018 at 12:27 pm Reply

        Hi Bronwen, Thank you for responding. I also think there is a connection between adverse drug reactions and amyloidosis. I use to be healthy. I will write back, share my story, and would very much appreciate any advice or info you are willing to give or share. I am incredibly ill, my heart symptoms are progressively becoming worse, and I honestly at times don’t know how I’ve survived the pain and torture this long, it’s been 21 months for me so far. Thank you.

        • Bronwen Duncan March 5, 2018 at 7:55 pm

          Hi TM: I am writing a long hopefully useful post, but have to run out to an evening meeting. I’ll post in a few hours.

        • Bronwen Duncan March 6, 2018 at 12:34 am

          Hi TM/Irene:

          Ugh. I’m so so sorry this is happening to you. It is scary and hard for others to really understand. I’m so glad you’ve connected with the community of people on this website.

          I have to agree with L’s post below where she says if you possibly can find an ND or Functional Practitioner who knows about fluoroquinilone reactions if you can and not to waste time convincing doctors. I couldn’t – I had to get bits of information from numerous places, one of the most useful being this site.

          Before I give you my suggestions I need to warn you that as you sound like you are in rough shape, when things start improving it may seem like they have got worse temporarily. The body is amazing in that it can be driven to use different biochemistry tools for some of its most basic functions such as the energy-producing methylation cycle. These keep you alive, but take a toll as these are not efficient substitutes and cause a back of oxidative mess in your body. Cipro robbed you of pieces of chemistry in your body (such as magnesium, iodine, glutathione). Once the body starts getting what it needs through a supplement that it was lacking, things start working a bit better, but then all this “garbage” is set loose and the body can react to it on the way out. So as you begin to heal you may find it a bumpy ride – this “herxheimer” reaction. So the trick is to start slow and up the amounts of anything that can potentially help you carefully, always listening to your body. I can only advise you what worked for me, and what I’ve discovered through research. However, I cannot feel what is going on in your body. You have to do your own research and make your own judgement about each step of your healing. Coming to this site is an awesome step!

          First, let’s support your heart. The heart is the organ in the body that has the largest concentration of mitochondria. It seemed floxed people have mitochondrial dysfunction – why is still under debate. But, it is no surprise that what you do to help your heart will also help other symptoms of being floxed. (My heart was also my most worrying symptom. My whole body shook to my heartbeat as well. I couldn’t sleep on my left side for at least a year, because each beat would shake my body so much. I had severe arrhythmia and pain in my chest as well. At one year, I was OK, at two years, not quite better, and at 3 years, really nearly as good as ever. Now, my heart just seems to have a slightly enlarge left atrium and some early beats too.)

          There is one great resource I’d like to direct you to: I cannot post links on this site for some weird technical quirk, but if you look this up on google you’ll find it useful: “Stephen Sinatra the awesome foursome”. You need everything he says: Magnesium D-ribose, CoQ10 (only I strongly suggest in the form of MitoQ) and L-carnitine. So now a little bit on each:

          If you’re not taking magnesium, start! Magnesium is incredibly important for hearts – when people have heart attacks, they put them on a mag IV. All magnesium options cannot be absorbed well. Some are quite useless. The best are mag citrate, mag malate (which I take), mag bisglycinate, mag taurate (good for the heart), or mag threonate (and for the brain and mitchondria – which I also take). Some bodies like one better, some bodies like others better. I would definitely take mag threonate. Start with one capsule (full daily dose is 3 at a total of 144 mg). You can find this on amazon if it is not in your local health food store. Also take one of the other mags, starting at 50-100mg elemental mag amount (only a portion of each supplement is mag as the rest is the carrier that enables it to be accepted by the body- it should hopefully say on the side of the bottle the elemental mag amount – and work up to 300-400 elemental mag amount over a couple of months. If your body rejects it (diarrhea) then you need to start getting it in your system through your skin instead of your mouth. You can by rubbing magnesium “oil” or spray onto your skin a few times a day and take epsom salt baths. Then very gradually add in the mag by mouth. Just a little warning: And remember, when your body needs something desperately, it will go a bit bananas when it gets it. I had two disturbing short bouts of tachycardia (fast heartbeat) for 20 minutes or so. I simply deeply breathed and walked slowly, but also now know that if this happens, drink a whole bunch of water to clear the magnesium out a bit – it is all water soluble.

          D-Ribose. YES! Start right away, and you don’t have to be quite so careful with dosage. This is basically giving your mitochondria the energy they need to function. I felt an immediate kind of glowing feeling in my heart when I took my first dose – it felt very welcomed!

          Also take the L-carnitine. There is Acetyl-L-Carnitine which is apparently better for the brain, and straight up L-carnitine which is better for the muscles. I went for the brain variety! Start with 500mg and go to 1000mg.

          MitoQ is the CoQ10 that has been altered to get into the mitochondria. It is made in New Zealand and is very expensive, but well worth it. I started with half dose, and then took the full 10mg.

          OK – so now you need some major support in clearing out the oxidative mess in your body. You have to provide your liver with what it has probably run out of: glutathione – Although whey protein and NAC (N-acetylcysteine) is a protein precursor to glutathione, when things are really off the rails, I expect neither would be enough to help move that oxidative mess out of your body. At your level of compromise, oxidative moderators like Omega 3 and Vit C are just not going to cut it. This is where a ND who has experience in IV glutathione or other oxidative cures might be really useful in your case – I would really like someone who knows what they’re doing with glutathione or similar options to physically see you, monitor you, and help you. It seems like “L” has some experience with this and may have some additional insight to share. As for me – I reached for liposomal glutathione (wrapped in fat so it makes it to the liver before the body digests it as just food) instead of IV glutathione but I expect my case was not quite as advanced as where you are now. I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half and then none. There is much controversy on this site about glutathione as some people have felt it brought out mercury that had been hiding in the body from fillings, etc., causing an unwanted reaction, but I know for me, it was essential to my healing. But please read about the controversy in the comments on my page and in other stories too, and make up your own mind on what is best for you.

          I also believe you should take a good quality B complex making sure both the B12 and the folate are methylated forms – meaning they are already chemically ready for your body to use, as some people do not metabolize them properly in their usually synthetic form. The Thorne Stress B complex is excellent.

          Eventually, I think you should consider iodine as well. I can tell you more about that in another post if you like.

          So, hope this is of some help. Please believe your body is trying hard to fix itself. It just need the right help right now.

          Sending you healing thoughts,

    • L March 5, 2018 at 11:30 am Reply

      Hi Irene, I was severely floxed. I went back and looked at blood tests. My Igg, IgM, IgA and they were all normal. (Only Ige was high but that was no surprise. since I have been plagued with allergy problems my whole life. My hs-CRP was high initially but went back to normal after months of different supplements. But that is not to say that yours is not related to the drugs. I had over 30 side effects …effecting almost every body system and organ. I was just devastated, barely able to move for months….and almost ALL my tests came back negative. (No surprise since Dr Todd Plumb says most of the damage is functional not structural.) Still, I would not be surprised if your results were related.

      • TM March 5, 2018 at 12:17 pm Reply

        Hi, Thank you. This is emotional for me to hear back from others. I have been suffering alone for so long. Have you recovered? If you have how long did it take for you to recover? What on earth did you do to help yourself recover? My heart is my biggest concern now. I’m so sick, my blood pressure goes from hypotension to hypertension, my whole body shakes and throbs to my heartbeat, I’ve been living with pulsatile tinnitus (hearing my heart beat) since Sept 2016. I can’t write much now, but will share my story, hope to get advice. Looking forward to hearing more. Thank you so much.

        • L March 5, 2018 at 12:36 pm

          I have recovered about 90-some percent. And I was bad. I truly did not imagine I would survive. I still have fluid around my heart, but so far it doesn’t seem to affect me. I just have to have echo-cardios every 6 months or so to make sure the fluid has not increased. I still have vision issues—mostly just much worse vision. Floaters and light sensitivity are still there but considerably better, and have been told I have early stage macular degeneration now. I take a daily eye vitamin supplement. I still have tinnitus which can drive me crazy at times, when it gets loud. LIke cicadas. I don’t have the energy I had before, but I can do most of what I did pre Cipro. I get some side effects that recur like olfactory hallucinations (always a gross smell—never anything pleasant); strangling sensation around my neck and some breathing issues.

          I was fortunate in finding an ND that did nutrient IVs AND had already treated several floxies. I started feeling like I might actually live again after several months, and then like I might actually be somewhat normal again, after around 12-14 months. I am now 3 years out.

          Glad you found this site. It’s such a difficult thing to go through, and so much more so if you are alone. There is a lot of great information on here. Not sure who you have seen treatment wise, but I would say 90-some percent of us had not had good results or reactions with regular MDs. You are best finding a good ND or an integrative MD. IF/ when you do see someone, if they don’t believe your injuries are from the fluoroquinolone, leave the office. You don’t need to expend more energy trying to convince someone. On the other hand, if they seem more agreeable, you might want to show them these letters that Lisa has posted on the site, which are from doctors who were themselves floxed.

        • Dee March 5, 2018 at 5:26 pm

          Tuula, I am almost 9 months into recovery and have improved with some of my symptoms. The one symptom I have that is very annoying is also pulsatile tinnitus! It came on about 3 months into my recovery believe it or not after taking a half mg of melatonin!! It triggered horrible tinnuitis! I have made some improvement since then but now I hear a constant pulsating and of course it is really bad when trying to go to sleep!! I see you have lived with your tinnutus for a long time?? When did it come on in your recovery and has it improved at all for you? Have you seen a Doc about it or found anything that helps it?? You are the first person who has mentioned this type of tinnutus! I have read it is more of a vascular issue in the ears??? Tell me more about your experience with it when you get a chance! Would appreciate!!

        • L March 5, 2018 at 5:35 pm

          So interesting to read this Dee. I got “regular” tinnitius post Cipro but something else I have been dealing with is crazy mast cell issues….constant post nasal drip, dropping into my lungs and effecting my breathing. Anyhow, I had read about a study where they gave people 3 mg of melatonin a night for 30 days for mast cell issues, and as it turns out, many of them had improvement with the tinnitus. Well, I was so excited to maybe kill two birds with one stone. Well, first night I took, I didn’t sleep at all. Second night, I awoke an hour later with night terrors. Just awful. Could not get out of bed and to the light switch fast enough. End of experiment!

        • Dee March 5, 2018 at 6:34 pm

          L. Well the melatonin actually triggered my tinnuitis so it is off my list forever!! Who would ever have thunk???? My one Doc said when GABA receptors are damaged they could react opposite to melatonin and have a hyper reaction!! That is an understatement for me and my tinnutus!! Thank you melatonin!! And of course Cipro for creating this mess in the first place!!

  11. Irene March 9, 2018 at 7:18 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen, L, Dee,

    I apologize for not responding sooner. Thank you for everything that you said. I’ve been fighting for 1.5 years now for information, a diagnosis, help, still nothing. I have had several biopsies, including bone, seen many specialists neurologists, hematologists, rheumatologists, dermatologists, gastroenterologists, gathering bits of information, but never any help, not even from a major drug safety clinic in Toronto a few months after my drug reaction, I’ve been denied referrals many times, been told I have a somatoform disorder, that my symptoms aren’t real- my painful stinging, burning, neuropathy, muscle twitching, spasms, muscles popping like popcorn in a popcorn machine, double/blurry vision, pulsatile and ringing tinnituses, abnormal heart symptoms, swelling legs, night sweats, excruciating bone pain, body vibrating, shaking at night and when I wake up, and in the beginning feeling like I was being electrocuted, being stung by bees, etc. I keep a symptom/diet diary since this began.

    I suggest you have your immune system checked, ask your doctor to order these simple blood tests, test your immunoglobulins (IgG, IgA, IgM) and especially your free light chains. A FLC test costs $50 Cdn, even if you just get this done. I fought to get my immune system checked after seeing all these specialists, especially the one who said I had somatoform disorder and falsified information. That’s when the abnormalities showed up. I believe I had been fighting so hard, I had been keeping my kidneys, body stable, that I appeared normal, but not enough to overcome the damage that macrobid (nitrofurantoin) caused. It would be interesting to know your results, if you do, do this. I think the heart symptoms, neuropathy, muscle twitching, spasms, both ringing and pulsatile tinnituses, etc….even if you don’t have all these symptoms, are all due to abnormal proteins being deposited, causing damage. I have chronically elevated kappa free light chains, my IgM is usually slightly elevated, seems to me because it is trying to keep my ESR (inflammation) down (ESR is another blood test you could ask for). I think I may have amyloidosis, but there are other possible illnesses like light chain deposition disease, etc. I was a completely healthy, normal woman till the day after I started taking macrobid (nitrofurantoin), it attacked my calf muscles first, I was told to take a muscle relaxant instead. The Canadian Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Subspecialties lists neuropathy as a macrobid adverse reaction, doesn’t say why, just like fluoroquinolones I would assume. I am proof that drug reactions are hereditary, that drugs can damage your immune system, and if like my father, leads to cancer, his reaction resulted from one time exposure to blood pressure medications one weekend, it destroyed his health suddenly, very drastically. I’m trying to get to the truth of this matter before it’s too late for me, my heart is my biggest concern, bigger than this horrid, stinging, burning neuropathy, and I have been fighting hard to keep my body healthy, and trying to see if I can, in any way, get my FLCs down… elevated FLCs are a known cardiovascular risk and I didn’t have to read it to know it- I felt it, saw it, heard it long before I learned about FLCs.

    Hope this helps. Keep fighting to get back to normal! Best wishes to you all.

    • Dee March 9, 2018 at 8:11 am Reply

      Irene, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I truly hope in time all of your symptoms will heal and improve and you will recover. Interesting enough after 3 in a half days of Cipro and experiencing some neuropathy I stopped taking the Cipro. Two days later my Doc wanted to give me another antibiotic to make sure my UTI was taken care of. I took the first 2 doses the first day and it was like my neuropathy lit up like a Bon fire!! It totally exasperated my already Cipro induced neuropathy and I immediately stopped the macrobid. How long did you take the macrobid? Did you ever take a fluroquinolone too?? My pulsate tinnutus was actually brought on by a half mg of melatonin 3 months later!! My tinnutus isn’t as loud as it was then but it is constant and of course very annoying. My neuropathy has almost gone away 9 months later. Have you considered seeing a functional Doc or NP to get some nutritional testing done to maybe guide you with taking vitamins and supplements?? Are you taking magnesium to help with the neuropathy and muscle pain? I pray you will begin to recover soon. I know it is difficult but try and keep the faith and believe your body can and will heal. Dee

    • Dee March 9, 2018 at 9:50 am Reply

      Irene, have you made any or some improvement in the last 1.5 years??? I really hope you have which would be at least moving forward for you???

    • L March 9, 2018 at 10:15 am Reply

      All those tests for me came back normal, except, no surprise the igE . I have had allergies all my life and so expected that. And again, most tests comes back normal because the FLQ reactions are primarily functional and not structural.

      I am so sorry you have been given such a run-around, but sadly not surprised. Same thing happens here in the states. Denial, refusal, disbelief, mockery.

      One of the first pieces on the damage from FLQs was from Canada! If you haven’t seen it, her it is

  12. kevin April 23, 2018 at 11:31 am Reply

    to my fellow floxies…i was floxd 9/16, i wish i had seen this back then…i have stumbled upon some of the advised supplements, and have come thru to some extent. the quaking, depression, crying, fatigue, muscle spasm/cramping, brain fog, joint pain and heart arrhythmia have been a part of my life ever since i took the cursed drug. the upper torso and rib cartilage is definitely very difficult to manage, but has come to a somewhat bearable level.

    i read a blog of a survivor back then. his advice was that i must keep pushing thru…which i have done. i want to cry when i think back, but i cannot allow myself to do so…keep looking forward. i sent myself the same text daily, encouraging myself to keep pushing for my wife, for my job, for my children…keep looking forward, one day at a time, be positive, dont be resentful, it wasnt your fault, etc., etc.

    ive spent over 10,000 trying to get better. ive used every seat cushion imaginable along with every joint stabilizer trying to stay upright and functioning. since ive been on sitraline, i have become more “numb” to my reality. i believe this has helped calm down the stress level, which exacerbates all of the muscle spasms, etc .i was given this by the neurologist, who wanted to turn off my dwelling on the symptoms.

    every dr. looked at me like i was crazy, and in fact, i was. i was losing my mind, without a doubt. i know i wasnt right, all they did was tell me to calm down and it was all in my mind. not until i saw a pain management guy who injected my locked up head, neck, shoulder, back muscles with lidocaine, did i finally get relief…trigger point injections. i see him 1 a month, from 2-3 times a week. now i go in for mainteneance.

    oh, by the way, did i tell you i was on prednisone for my back at the same time? in additionj to the pred-packs, i actually had spinal injections with steroids to help calm down my herniated discs, stenosis, etc…these steroidal intakes were without a doubt the mushroom cloud of the experience. i have herniations throughout my C, T & L spine. i still suffer greatly from these joints, which again the old injuries have been brought forward by the cipro. i have started a regiment of collagen, with the hopes of feeding the injured tissue.

    this passed month, i actually had forgotten that i was flox’d, well, to a degree anyway. i started working out…getting in shape, as i have a full fitness room in the construction Project i am running. i realized over this past weekend that the achilles and heel pain are most likely a direct result of the floxing. i went to the internet over the weekend and stumbled on this site. i’ll be going in next week to see if any damage has occurred, but im hopeful they’ll look at me and say the same thing ive heard these many months, “i dont see anything wrong , Kevin.”

    i love melatonin!! ive taken it with .5 mg ( i cant remember what the script is!!) this is one of the biggest problems, my memory lapses and inability to grab a word like i used to. i think this is getting better, very slowly.

    stay corageous…its not your fault, live your life as best you can, remain vigilent, rest well, suppement, cry, and keep moving on…keep pushing!

    • L April 23, 2018 at 4:36 pm Reply

      Hey Kevin, I too was on prednisone when I was floxed and I was severely damaged–breathing and vision issues, incredible pain, gut destruction and large fast weight loss, over 30 side effects. So glad you are doing better.

      A couple things I want to mention. One re the herniated discs. I have had 3 since my thirties—nothing in particular just an accumulation of damage from skiing, tennis, dancing, baseball—anyhow, I was lucky enough to end up with a surgeon who didn’t really believe surgery was the best option long term. He sent me to a physical therapist who used the Mackenzie Method on me. (I thought my back would snap in two the first time he guided me!) IT really is similar to the cobra position in yoga. Anyhow, that was decades ago, and STILL if I do it regularly I have NO ISSUES. (and at the time my back went out I couldn’t stand. I was literally having to crawl on the floor and an ambulance came and picked me up.) I have even done stupid things since then, like jumping off of stages, and not had a problem, as long as I keep up with that one exercise. You might try to find someone nearby who uses this method to see if you are a candidate. (There is also a book by Mackenzie called Treat Your Own Back—but it is much easier to do it with someone trained)

      The other I have mentioned on this site before. Post Cipro I ended up with torn meniscus. I didn’t want surgery. I was so disgusted with allopaths, and I have read the outcomes aren’t always that great, so I got prolozone injections (not to be confused with prolotherapy) from my ND. It help your body heal itself naturally. It takes a few months, but I am now 1 1/2 years out from these injections and my knees have been great. I wanted to mention this in case you do happen to rupture something. It works for not only meniscus but tendons, cartilage (my doctor used them on his receptionists father, in all his arthritic areas—hips, knees, back and he’s been doing great.) Some sports medicine doctors do this now as well.

    • Bronwen Duncan April 23, 2018 at 6:07 pm Reply

      Wow. What a survivor attitude! I’m glad you’ve found this site. Everyone experiences somewhat differing symptoms and it’s great when you can find the comments or story of someone who found some bit of help in a way that you haven’t already tried or researched yourself. I’m so glad you’re healing. You are taking magnesium of some kind? (Mag threonate is really good for brain/nerves/mitochondria).

      • Bronwen Duncan April 23, 2018 at 6:09 pm Reply

        PS. My reply above was directed at Kevin.

        Prolozone therapy sound interesting too, though, L!

  13. Sandra Joseph May 12, 2018 at 4:24 pm Reply

    I have been through 10 months of “doctoring” and specialists and blood work and brain mri and electrical shocks in my arms legs …etc all by “physicians” who “never heard of this reaction to cipro” ! Some days are actually bearable, others tortorous. Now that I came across this writing I will not stop researching. If there is light at the end of the tunnel I hope and pray I will find it.

    • L May 12, 2018 at 7:10 pm Reply

      How on earth is it possible, with everything out there, that physicians are still saying “they’ve never heard of “ these reactions?! It is infuriating. It’s like they’re all living in some giant cocoon.

    • Bronwen Duncan May 16, 2018 at 7:37 am Reply

      Hi Sandra: I’m so glad you found this site. With all the variety of different stories and experiences, you’ll find advice and insight with your journey through this difficult journey. If you’re looking for a good overview on where to start on supplements, my post on March 3rd (above) may be a good overview. Wishing you light at the end of that tunnel, and healing!

  14. RobFaust August 31, 2018 at 9:09 am Reply

    Brownen, thank you so much for you story and your menu of what helped you. I have been adhering to your “recipe” for the last 2 months and I can tell you with much certainty that it is helping, (although I am afraid of saying that for fear of duping myself.) Nonetheless, the supplements section of your recovery story has been a revelation. I’ve had 6 doses of Glutathione and used the recipe daily… what a difference, not 100% yet, I’m at a good 60-75%, with a couple of near normal days every 10… Thats the best place I’ve been in since my Levaquin IV’s.

    • Bronwen Duncan August 31, 2018 at 10:06 pm Reply

      Hi Rob. I am SO very pleased that you have been able to benefit from things that worked for me. It’s a pretty rough journey and so good that you’re seeing improvement. It will continue. Much later on, after I’d kind of plateaued with healing for a few months, I started a moderate amount of iodine too (working up to 3500 mcgs a day – which is 3.5 mg). I think this helped the flouride from the fluoroquinilone out of the system but that had a herx too as it can take out all kinds of other toxins on the way too, so I’d wait quite a while. And iodine supplementation is quite controversial, so do your own research.

      And yes – I’d cycle through those good days every 10 days or so. You just have to ride the bumps and know there is a gradual uphill.

      Wishing you continued healing,

  15. Bet September 4, 2018 at 12:05 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen
    I took Cipro one year ago and now my heart is getting worse day after day;ventricular arrhythmia and parossistic tachycardia.
    I’ve been to ER many times and the last one the cardiologist suggested to me to take a beta blocker Bisoprorol.
    My question is do you have any suggestion about supplemets?I’m taking Mag,COQ10,vit b complex,d ribose L carnitine,Whey protein,vit C.
    I begun to have arrhytmia with Cipro but I don’t know the reason I’m getting worse….at the beginning I improve a lot.
    thank you

    • L September 4, 2018 at 9:02 am Reply

      Bet, I also had heart issues (different from yours) and was fortunate enough to find an integrative cardiologist. She suggested I add taurine. You can get a form of magnesium called magnesium taurate. you might also add EPA fish oil. The coq10 is great, but if you are over 40 they usually suggest using the ubiquinol form. You might also try acupuncture.

    • Bronwen Duncan September 4, 2018 at 6:57 pm Reply

      Hi Bet:
      So sorry your heart is struggling. You are obviously taking some great supplements to fill the gaps of chemistry in your body that taking a fluoroquinilone depleted. There are additional supplements for hearts, like the one that “L” so wisely mentioned above, however, I am wondering you need some major support in clearing out the oxidative mess in your body. You have to provide your liver with what it has probably run out of: glutathione – Although whey protein and NAC (N-acetylcysteine) are a precursor to glutathione, when things are really off the rails, neither may be enough to help move that oxidative mess out of your body. I found that my real turn around was not until I took liposomal glutathione. However, this is a controversial subject on this website. Some people have felt it brought out mercury that had been hiding in the body from fillings, but I believe I would not have healed without it, and being very healthy initially just persevered through the inevitable herx reaction (which is when your body reacts in the same way it did as the poison entered your body – because when it is “loosened” on the way out, it triggers the same responses. THis can be very confusing as you’re not sure if you’re getting better or going through a herx reaction.) This is where a ND who has experience in IV glutathione or other oxidative cures might be really useful in your case. Otherwise, do your own research reading up on it on this site and others before you take glutathione. Some use glutathione IVs (with a ND, for instance) but being relatively broke, I instead took liposomal glutathione (wrapped in fat so it makes it to the liver before the body digests it as just food). I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. I felt terrible for two weeks, and then bit by bit improved and improved. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half, then none, but started up again occasionally a few months ago. It seems to erase any residual symptoms that appear occasionally.

      As far as taking a beta blocker – this is outside my knowledge, and I can’t advise you. Beta blockers do not seem to be listed as contraindicated with fluoroquinilones. I wanted to avoid any medications so as to give my body the best chance of re-finding normal, but that is just my approach, and I can’t recommend it to you. Maybe send an email to this site’s coordinator – you can contact her through a contact tab on the menu and ask if she has any knowledge about this.

      Wishing you healing.

      • Dee September 4, 2018 at 7:31 pm Reply

        Bronwen, where do you find liposomal glutathione wrapped in fat?? Is there a name for it or a brand of it that you used? I am interested in it as don’t want to pay for IVs. Thanks!

        • Bronwen Duncan September 4, 2018 at 7:53 pm

          The kind I used was made for me by a compounding pharmacy in Canada in a glass container that won’t ship well. I can’t post links in this page or my post won’t show (some weird quirk). You can use google to find some online, then choose some from a company that you trust produces excellent supplements. I saw some available from Pure Encapsulations that looked decent. But PLEASE educate yourself about herxheimer reactions, the controversy around glutathione (as found on this website) and be prepared for a rough ride before it gets better. Start with a low dose (I know I said I started with 450mg, but I’d do less, or just take it less often, to start)

        • L September 4, 2018 at 8:59 pm

          I got IVs of glute, but this is probably the cheapest place (not cheap though) to get a reputable brand. (Free shipping over $49 on vitacost…where I order all my supplements. You could check amazon too.

        • Dee September 5, 2018 at 10:25 am

          Bronwen and L, so there is liquid liposomal glutathione, pill form and the product you posted L is actually packets with liquid in them. It is all so confusing?? I have taken liquid glutathione in the past and currently take s acetyl Glutathione pills now. I have not had any issues with either one. L….I know you do the IVs which I don’t want to pay for but the packets from vitacost look interesting? Bronwen…….you take it orally and had success. How did you get it compounded for you? Through a Doctor? Do you have any opinions on the other products? Pills, liquid and packets??? Just want to take the next best thing from getting an IV. Any suggestions??

        • Bronwen Duncan September 8, 2018 at 10:46 am

          Hi Dee: I had the glutathione compounded by an alternative pharmacy. The problem is that it is hard to keep the solution stable, meaning it’s potency can reduce over time. I had to use it “fresh”. Therefore, I expect the capsule form is best. However, I am no expert and when I started on glut it was four years ago or so, when there weren’t so many options available. At that time I was told liposomal was the only viable alternative to IV, as being encapsulated in fat molecules would ensure delivery to the liver – as the body would not view the glut in the intestine as food, but instead shuttle the fat to the liver. My best advice would be to research google, and then go with a company that you know offers very superior supplement quality. Sorry I haven’t been a big help. However, I know liposomal glut made a huge difference for me.

      • Bet September 11, 2018 at 10:39 pm Reply

        Thanks ,,,I have mercury amalgams now and I’m going to remove them I will take gluthatione to see if I can improve my heart problems.

  16. RobFaust September 9, 2018 at 8:17 pm Reply

    Dee, forgive me for jumping in, but I use the PURE, which is as effective as the IV injections I’ve had… I’ve used the sublingual as well, a French Company manufactures that, IMHO the PURE is highly effective… as it produces the same nerve tingle/rush of nerve heat that I have experienced post IV injection. in my case the the herx effect has really been a thing with this all this, but, if you are patient enough, there is dramatic difference post herx relief, I started to encounter 3 weeks after starting Brownen’s suggestions for treatment, i no longer wake up on fire and the onset of unwell for me is now delayed late into my day… my pain is now much more localized and thankfully slighter; somedays it does not return until 9 or 10 just before bed… but, I confirm that that there are cycles of very good days, good days, bad days and not so bad days… It has been 5 years since I was on 5 weeks of IV Levaquin and 2 1/2 since 2 week course of IV cipro for the GI troubles that the Levaquin induced, I have been prescribed every manner of painkiller and anti-inflamatory 4 different specialists, which only made all this more confusing and ultimately frustrating… After 5 years of this non-medically recognized wall of pain condition I dedicated myself to the course laid out here… things can improve…

    • Dee September 9, 2018 at 9:04 pm Reply

      Rob. I’m so sorry that you have suffered for 5 years. But am certainly happy that your symptoms are starting to improve and you are experiencing less pain. Thanks for your suggestions on the liposomal glutathione. Are you referring to PURE encapsulations or just plain PURE as the brand name you use for the glutathione?? I haven’t purchased the glutathione as of yet as there are so many choices!! Also what dosage do you take and how long did you take it before you noticed a difference? Are they pills or liquid?? Thanks for the helpful info!!!

    • Dee September 9, 2018 at 9:13 pm Reply

      Rob. There is also the brand PURE formulas??

  17. RobFaust September 10, 2018 at 12:04 am Reply

    Dee, I’ve been using the Pure Encapsulations – Liposomal Gluttathione, this is the link for the one I have had great success with. My flexing hasn’t been the worst, from what i can discern from the stories of others, I’m probably mid-scale on the pain-o-meter. I’m fortunate and adamant with my health care providers, it was night and day… there is a pre levaquin state and a post levaquin state… My body was ever so slowly starting to recover, notably in the brain fog dep’t but the last 3 months have shown me that there is still a me without the zombie… I am very fortunate thus far… without resources like this I think I would have seriously lost my mind…

    • Dee September 10, 2018 at 6:54 am Reply

      Rob. Thanks for the info on the brand of glutathione!! What dose did you take each day?? My only concern is that I have leaky gut so am a little concerned about pills absorbing vs a liquid form??? I take a lot of other supplements that are pills as I have no choice but wonder how much they are getting absorbed?? Have you tried any liquid form?? I’m sure glad your brain fog is clearing up! I had a lot of problem with that the first few months. I know the zombie feelin all too well!!! It has gotten quite a bit better! I think my biggest problem is my nervous system. I finally sleep better through the night but wake up early feeling like a buzz saw going through my body and my ears (buzzing tinnitus) and urgent bathroom needs!! It is like my body wakes up in overdrive!! I think my adrenals are going a little haywire!!! It seemed to get a little better for awhile ( last 2-3 months) and now it is going crazy again! I really don’t know what to do!!! I’m hoping and praying it is a cycle and will correct itself again!! These cycles are very tough to go through when you have had better days! You talked about that as well. Do you feel you are having a lot more better days now?? I hope!!! Let me know about the dose you took and if you know anymore about a good liquid form. Did you have any CNS/adrenal issues?

  18. RobFaust September 10, 2018 at 8:09 pm Reply

    I take 1 tablet a day, somedays, the max of 2 tablets with food, but the herx effect does tend to be overwhelming at times. I’ve only used the sublingual form and a caplet form, alongside IV injections… my health care practitioner has a expressed preference for the Liposomal form, not sure why, I don’t purchase them from her, I’ll ask her next time I’m in… I’ve not explored the adrenal fatigue end of things just concentrating on dealing with GI/neurological end of things and my hip tendons and sternum/rib cage. I’m only 3 months in at this current pace. Prior to this, my body was getting slowly better, but the flares were often more intense with very high spikes of unwellness… lost days.. slow focus, intense unwellness coupled with a good deal of pop-up anxiety spikes due to the flares. Using the guidelines, as above, I’ve truly surged forward in 3 months, my spikes or flares are much much lower and less intense.., but the places where I first felt the Levaquin sink in, the mysterious frozen right shoulder, lower right groin and hip are the only areas of significance in this last month… and at that, its an ambulatory pain, that travels mid back, down my spine settles in my right L5 region and lower right groin tendon and then back up to my shoulder, and I think this is mostly pain resonating and tracing from my colon… these cycles used to take 2-4 days, now they happen in 4-12 hour cycles and some days there is almost no wandering pain. (I say all this cautiously as I’m only 3 months into this stage of recovery.) So, yes, I feel a great deal better, but I’m greedy and the only anxiety/frustration I experience is that the days where there is almost no pain, I want those everyday, I actually believe they will come… 5 years ago I was nearly immobilized with pain in my neck, in my chest, lungs, all the connective tissue in my upper body, my heart, my ankles, I had lost weight but would retain this weird belly of fluid even though I barely ate due to the IBS-C and diverticulitis that developed after the Levaquin…even this mystery water has nearly / completely disappeared, I’ve lost 21/2 inches from my waist but only 5 lbs– which again plays into befuddlement end of this condition.

  19. Nusrat October 6, 2018 at 1:56 pm Reply

    I am newly floxed; 2 months in. Am suffering horrible neuropathy pain everywhere; muscle twitches and my knees seem to be hit the worst.
    Have an MRI next Saturday.
    I’m so happy I found this group; I have been feeling like I’m going mad and as we all know doctors are useless in giving any help.
    I have a question.
    I’m taking Magnesium L Threonate as it states on the box which is 3 times a day.
    In total it’s 432mg per day.
    Aswell as Coenzyme 10; b12 and vitamin D.
    Do I need to increase the magnesium?
    I’m getting symptoms that seem to be getting worse but I’m scared to take more magnesium as it says on the box not to exceed the stated dose.
    Any advice is appreciated.
    One stressed mum!

    • L October 6, 2018 at 3:03 pm Reply

      I like mag Threonate, but yes it’s hard to get enough mag that way. Personally, when I was first floxed, I took 800 mg of mag for the first year or so. There are some other good options eg mag orotate and glyncinate.

      RE the MRI, please be aware, depending on what they find, that there are alternatives to surgery. I ended up with torn meniscus in both knees (and a couple other issues there as well) and I have prolozone injectins (do not confuse with prolotherapy). I ended up having two in one knee, a year apart and may get a second in the other knee, but so far so good. What it does is it allows your body to heal itself naturally. This takes several months. There is also (perhaps an even better option) PRP injections, which does the same thing. Some osteopaths and many sports medicine docs now use these.

      And good on the other supplements too. I would also add a good multistrain probiotic because these toxins destroy the good gut microbiome, and this gut damage is linked to pretty much every disease you can think of. Also, as you may be aware if you have ready other posts, say NO to all NSAIDs and steroids.

    • Bronwen Duncan October 6, 2018 at 5:33 pm Reply

      Hi Nusrat. So sorry you’re going through this. Mag Threonate is unique in that it passes the blood brain barrier as well as entering the mitochondria, which other magnesium types do not do as well. So, it is a great choice, but I would probably try to add more mag of a differing type as magnesium is one of the core elements for healing, and the different type may target different organs which need it. Extra mag goes out the kidneys so overdosing is not an issue.

      First of all, check that the 432mg you say you’re getting through Mag Threonate is actually elemental magnesium. For instance, the Mag Malate I take, is 667mg Mag Threonate, which is actually only 48 mg Magnesium. Hopefully, it will clarify on the side of the bottle. I never went of 500 mg elemental magnesium a day, but I know others have taken as much as 800mg. But you have to work up to this.

      Mag Threonate absorbs well, so does not cause diarrhea like other types magnesium supplements which are not absorbed as easily. Magnesium can not be digested on its own, so it is always bound to a carrier agent which can also have some health advantages or considerations. Each combination has a different percentage of magnesium as the elemental amount, and also a different “stability constant” which is how well the metal ions will separate (and go into your cells) in different areas of the body defined by their PH (acid/alkaline). For instance, Magnesium Oxide is 60% magnesium, but has a high stability constant so only 4% is actually biologically available. It can be very hard to figure out dosage amounts because many manufacturers do not include this kind of information with their supplement. However, magnesium bisglycinate are glycinate are the mag supplements often recommended by naturopaths (easy to find in a health food store). It is chelated and therefore very absorbable. I take Magnesium Malate. I would start on one of these at 100mg and move to 200mg, and if you’re body is tolerating it (without diarrhea) then even more.

      I addition to your supplements listed, I would check the B12 is in a methylated format (Methylcobalamin). And, if I was you, I would take something to help my body clear up the oxidative “mess” of compromised cell material which has piled up. See my Sept 4 post to Bet (above) regarding glutathione. However, this is controversial, so do you own research.

      Do hope you start to heal. I’m glad you found this site.

  20. Lorna October 23, 2018 at 3:59 am Reply

    Bronwen, thanks for your story- very inspired to read it. Sounds like you did your research !
    If possible could you provide an example of a quality whey product to use? Thank you

    • Bronwen Duncan October 23, 2018 at 7:25 am Reply

      Hi Lorna:
      I’m in Canada so I may have a different selection available. I’ve been taking Progressive Harmonized Protein because it is from cows that are grass fed in New Zealand and not fed antibiotics. Progressive also adds in other things like Lactoferrin and Colostrum and DL Alpha Lipoic Acid (in very small amounts). I think most whey from Australia and New Zealand is antibiotic free. Of course, more aggressive ways of boosting your glutathione (what your liver needs to “clean” you body of free radicals and mess) is to take NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine), or if you’re very compromised, glutathione itself – I’ve written much on this in the few previous comments.

  21. Otto October 29, 2018 at 11:58 am Reply

    I read your story over and over. I have most the same symptoms. Thank you for your story and for keeping in touch with folks. I read about a suicide from this yesterday. It terrifys me.
    It means so much to us that the people who get better let us know its possible. I’m 4 months out and Im seeing the cycles that you mention some days Im not as bad and get really motivated by my improvement then I get smacked down. But I know I can beat it, just need to know when to push it a lil and when to rest. Thanks again, Bronwen

    • Bronwen Duncan November 4, 2018 at 11:58 am Reply

      Hi Otto: I’m so pleased that telling my story can help others. There is definitely a cycle, but gradually the cycle lengthens and the rough part only lasts a day or two, and lessens in intensity. Your are right – sometimes I think pushing through it actually forces those mitochondria to heal, but then they/you need time to recover as well. So listen to the cycles and go with it Every month or so I still cycle through a couple of less good days, but it is so rare, I don’t really worry about it. I am still on some supplements – I think the cipro played havoc with body chemistry, but I’m now much more fit and healthy than most people in their 50s. It is an absolute joy when you start feeling your resiliency again. I had no idea WHY I should have gone through this, but now see how I’ve decided to live my life as an adventure, rather than settling for compromises. So, there is definitely hope ahead…

  22. Eugene Ramey January 3, 2019 at 11:40 am Reply

    Bronwen, thank you so much for posting this. You have restored my hope! I was diagnosed with pneumonia on 12/9/2018 and prescribed 500mg of Ciprofloxacin twice daily for 10 days. After the seventh dose, I felt pain in both calves and I could not walk normally. Today, I am in much more pain and I am scared that my Achilles’ tendons will rupture. Do you are anyone else recommend a supplement that can strengthen muscles, ligaments, and tendons? Please any and all help is appreciated! Thank you and God bless!

    • L January 3, 2019 at 11:58 am Reply

      I imagine others will give advice re supplements (perhaps like collagen) but I want to give you some “just in case,” info that will hopefully help ease your mind, should the worst happen. Post cipro I had torn meniscus in both knees (these toxins eat through any kind of connective tissue). I did not want surgery, but I could barely walk. At one point, I was using a cane because my right knee was so bad I couldn’t put any weight on it. My ND gave me prolozone injections in both knees, and they are doing great. Prolozone is a combination of ozone and procaine (I know some are sensitive to certain anesthetics post cipro. I had no problem with it. IT is not used as an anesthetic in this case but to help the ozone do its work.) This is NOT the same as prolotherapy, which is used for the same purpose but does not have the ozone.) What happens is, it allows your body to heal itself. It takes several months. So, hopefully you will find things to prevent any further damage from occurring; but I wanted you to know that if it does, all is not lost! (I got mine from a naturopath but many sports medicine doctors and even some orthopods are not using this. Another option is PRP.)

      • Eugene Ramey January 5, 2019 at 11:50 pm Reply

        Thank you so much! I am will most certainly look into that.

    • Bronwen Duncan January 5, 2019 at 7:14 pm Reply

      Hi Eugene:

      So sorry you’re going through this!

      You ask a good question. You have to try to do two things – give your body the raw resources that cipro may have robbed in order that essential biochemical reactions that keep your cells healthy can be re-established. This includes the mitochondria being able to create energy. And then you need to clear the toxins (ROS) that has built up due to cell destruction so things can have an opportunity to improve.

      Magnesium is incredibly important. All magnesium options cannot be absorbed well. Some are quite useless. The best are mag citrate, mag malate (which I take), mag bisglycinate, mag taurate (good for the heart), or mag threonate (and for the brain and mitchondria – which I also take). Some bodies like one better, some bodies like others better. I would definitely take mag threonate. Start with one capsule (full daily dose is 3 at a total of 144 mg). You can find this on amazon if it is not in your local health food store. Also take one of the other mags, starting at 50-100mg elemental mag amount (only a portion of each supplement is mag as the rest is the carrier that enables it to be accepted by the body- it should hopefully say on the side of the bottle the elemental mag amount – and work up to 300-400 elemental mag amount over a couple of months. If your body rejects it (diarrhea) then you need to start getting it in your system through your skin instead of your mouth. You can by rubbing magnesium “oil” or spray onto your skin a few times a day and take epsom salt baths. Then very gradually add in the mag by mouth.

      B complex – where the Folate in a form which is already methylated – meaning the body does not need to convert it from an unusable form before using it – and some bodies are not able to well as they have MTHFR gene issues (one potential cause of reacting to fluoroquinilones!) A methylated form of B12 is also importanat. I’m in Canada and we have an AOR advance B for the methylated forms of B12 and folate plus a well-balanced selection of all the other B vitamins. Thorne puts out a good one too but it is more expensive.

      Although it is expensive, I also feel the MitoQ (look online – comes from New Zealand) is well worth taking! It is chemically altered so it can go right inside the mitochondria to provide CoQ10 which is hard for the mitochondria to access otherwise.

      Possibly important is iodine – I don’t know as I got to it at year 3 in my healing and it seems to have been the final step. Iodine pushes out fluoride and if you are fluoride poisoned it may help. I started at 750mcg and now take 3mg where I may stay. Do your own reading on iodine as it too is controversial.

      The best thing it to listen to your own body, because if upping the amount of a supplement starts improving a chemistry pathway (such as methylation) that has been compromised, it can also releases toxins that have built up and this can make the body react against them. This is called a herxheimer reaction because the body is trying to repel them, even as they are loosened from hiding places on their way out. So, slow and steady with all changes! Up doses slowly.

      So how do you help the toxins and oxidative stress leave? You have to pump up your poor liver and the most important factor here is glutathione– Whey protein is great as a glutathione precursor, but probably not enough on its own to deal with the oxidative stress in your body. NAC (N-acetylcysteine) is a protein precursor to glutathione, but it can only work if you still have some glutathione capability. I had to resort to taking glutathione itself. This only works if it is liposomal glutathione (wrapped in fat so it makes it to the liver before the body digests it as just food) or IV glutathione. I found NAC did not work until glutathione could clear off some of the oxidative stress first. There is much controversy on this site about glutathione, but all I can say is it was essential to my healing. But again, we are all different so please read about the controversy in the comments on my page and in other stories too, and make up your own mind on what is best for you. Some people have found (e.g. those with amalgam fillings) that the glutathione can dislodge many toxins which overwhelm the body. I have amalgam fillings and certainly had a 2-week long herxheimer reaction which I just decided to stoically suffer through, where things got worse before they got better. I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half and then just occasionally.

      I also think that collagen can’t hurt – just make sure you get it from an antibiotic-free source.

      So these are my top suggestions. I wish you healing – I know how scary and frustrating this can all be!!

      • Eugene Ramey January 5, 2019 at 11:42 pm Reply

        Thank you so much! You are a literal lifesaver! May God bless you!

  23. Dan Jervis March 2, 2019 at 2:51 pm Reply

    Dear Bronwen, I am Dan Jervis, the last one on the long list. Would you please consider sharing your story to CBS 60 Minutes?

  24. Justin March 13, 2019 at 1:33 pm Reply

    Did your muscle knots eventually go away? Do you have any advice to get rid of them besides what you already put down? Thanks!

    • Bronwen Duncan March 13, 2019 at 5:13 pm Reply

      Hi Justin – I would say this is the symptom which has lasted longest on me, and I’m still trying to quell when it shows up every 2nd or 3rd month for a week or more. I never had what I would actually call muscle knots – more of a tightness and soreness in the upper back, shoulders, and chest area – but they certainly felt tight, so perhaps knot-ish! Some people have had their doctors suggest it is chostochondritis or fibromyalgia, but I’m not convinced (maybe all these have a similar deep chemistry imbalance cause?). At first I thought it was due to residual tendon damage, but I’m gradually thinking it is more of a sporadic and intense inflammation. Certainly, it can still make my heart feel weird (probably slightly “squished”) at its worse. In addition to the supplements I already put down, I think that making the blood circulate through the sore parts while exercising them seems to help clear out whatever is causing it. Of course a brisk walk gets the blood flowing everywhere, but I think yoga helped as I stretched my upper body, some in somewhat inverted position (e.g. downward dog, stretches, etc.) I’d also go for gentle massages to get the blood going, but deep massages seemed to increase the supposed inflammation.

      Not sure this helped.

      • Justin Baghai May 1, 2019 at 3:53 pm Reply

        Did it get better over time to a point it only shows up every couple months now or was it always this way? This is my biggest hurdle and unfortunately from my research I think it’s just a time thing.

        • Bronwen Duncan May 1, 2019 at 5:30 pm

          Hi Justin – yes it got better over time so it shows up less often and less intensely. And yes – time is a big factor. I never know how much healing was from time, and how much from supplements. Both, I guess!

  25. Justin Baghai April 3, 2019 at 5:59 am Reply

    Thanks for the response. My issue is I have trigger points that show up everywhere. Glutes, shoulders, etc. They don’t necessarily hurt but cause muscular imbalances everywhere. I’ve done dry needling but the problem just recreates itself. I assume it’s neurological. I will try to lift light weights and get some blood flowing to those areas. thanks!

  26. Anne Leenders April 22, 2019 at 6:23 am Reply

    Could you send me the link to the MitoQ please? Are there different places to get it, and which would be the best one? Is it better than Q10?

    • L April 22, 2019 at 9:13 am Reply the mito q 10 is the one I used

    • Bronwen Duncan April 22, 2019 at 8:42 pm Reply

      Hi Anne: L has provided the link to the MitoQ website through which I ordered. It’s now available through Amazon and from the same manufacturer, so either would work – the cheapest option being the “best” one. I think MitoQ name is owned by the manufacturer.

      Yes – MitoQ can be much better (and more expensive) than CoQ10 as MitoQ is CoQ10 that has been chemically altered so it specifically targets the mitochondria. CoQ10 can do this only a little – not in amounts that make much difference for mitochondria. I found it very valuable in my healing.

  27. Amanda Daum July 8, 2019 at 8:38 pm Reply

    I just wanted to start off by saying thank you. I began looking up treatment methods to Fluoroquinolone toxicity and began to lose hope, until I came across your page. I am a 24 year old female that was treated for an uncomplicated UTI 2 weeks ago. I have taken a full round of Cipro in the past for a UTI. My doctor prescribed me to take 2 500mg pills a day for 10 days. After 5 days I felt fine but my mom told me to stop taking it immediately because she got tennis elbow from using Cipro in the past. I stopped after 5 days and thought I was in the clear. 3 days ago (10 days after I took my first Cipro) I started feeling very “weird”. There’s no better way to explain it, I was just feeling off. I almost thought I was just imagining all of this. I still don’t feel any pain, but I feel tightness in my calves and in my feet and my anxiety is through the roof (could also be caused by finding all this research out) I also have been having muscle spasms in my legs. I know that this is from the Cipro, especially after doing some thorough research on Fluoroquinolone toxicity. I am nervous that if I don’t act quick I am going to rupture a tendon and never be able to recover. I feel so hopeful after reading your story. I have never had any health issues in the past, I did (and still don’t) take any additional medications. I am so nervous of potentially being disabled before I even reach my 30’s. My question for you is which essential supplements do you recommend purchasing immediately in order to prevent further damage/fix any damage that has already been caused? I am a pretty broke graduate student right now, so I cannot afford all of these vitamins at once. I was just hoping to find what you believe are the most important of these supplements? I pre-ordered magnesium oil to pick up tomorrow before work because that seems like the best way to start. Thank you for posting this and inspiring me that things will be okay. I’m so upset with myself for not looking more into this medication before blindly using it- I’m hoping this will be a learning lesson for myself.

    • L July 8, 2019 at 9:20 pm Reply

      Yeah for your mom!!! Good your first supplement was magnesium. You may want to add an oral mag as well…orotate, taurate, l-threonate, glycinate are all good choices. Make sure you avoid all steroids and NSAIDS. If your legs start hurting the last thing to reach for is an NSAID. If you can’t afford a good probiotic (I know it sounds odd since your dealing mostly with muscle/tendon issues, but flqs can destroy the gut which is linked to almost ALL health issues) at least eat fermented foods and try to get your good gut microbiome in order. Try to avoid fluoride in water, toothpaste, foods, etc. Be careful of meats that could contain antibiotics and try to eat clean as much as possible…organic, non gmo, gluten free when you can. Other supplelments mentioned by Dr Jay Cohen in his book (How we can halt the cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster in US History) are NAC (N Acetyl cysteine, which is a prescurose to glutathione, the mother of all antioxidants); vitamin E; zinc and alpha lipoic acid (if you get this buy the R-alpha lipoic acid form.)

    • Bronwen Duncan July 8, 2019 at 11:07 pm Reply

      Hi Amanda – so sorry this is happening to you. Magnesium oil is an excellent first choice. I agree with everything L says above – also other Mags such as Mag Threonate. NAC, as she also suggests is a really good way to boost your liver so it can remove the toxic mess that is building up in your tissues, but if your body is quite compromised, you may want to look at liposomal (or IV glutathione) instead (but please read up on this as it is controversial as it can pull other toxins from your body such as mercury from amalgam fillings, but maybe you’re young enough you avoided these). You say you’re fairly broke right now – this is when you call on any help you can – I would also recommend if there is anyone who is willing to donate to your cause you ask them to by you MitoQ. This is very expensive but I believe well worth it. Wishing you strength and healing. And do not get mad at yourself for not reading about the medication before using it – so many of us feel exactly the same!

      • Amanda July 10, 2019 at 2:38 pm Reply

        Bronwen & L-
        Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. Yesterday along with my magnesium oil I bought zinc, vitamin E, ionide, NAC, and probiotics. Today I purchased liposome Glutathione and MitoQ through amazon so they should both roughly be here in 2 days. Do you think my chances of recovery are better since I am starting all of these supplements 2 weeks since my first dosage? Or is the damage already completely done? Also, have you been able to ween yourself off of MitoQ or are you still on it to date? I have not experienced any “new” symptoms yet. Yesterday I applied the magnesium oil multiple times throughout the day, wow! I can’t believe how much it helped. Removed my tightness almost immediately. Today I did feel very fatigued (more then usual) but I heard that starting iodine could also initially make you feel like this. Any help is so so so appreciated. Thank you guys again for reaching out so quickly, means more then you know.

        • Amanda July 10, 2019 at 2:40 pm

          I think that I am mostly afraid that this is only the beginning- I’m afraid that the symptoms are just going to get worse and worse.

        • Bronwen Duncan July 10, 2019 at 5:18 pm

          Hi Amanda – yes, I do believe you are absolutely maximizing your chances of healing more quickly by so proactively by taking these supplements. I am very curious to see how this regime will affect you. I’ve known no one be so proactive so early on before.

          The destruction is cumulative – I got worse for 6 months because I had not yet figured out I should take things like MitoQ and liposomal glutathione – they prompted my eventual recovery. By starting these countering and healing techniques, you will not be as damaged as you would have been – and that is for sure. What is never for sure, is exactly how each body is going to react – each body is different and has a different genetic make-up which give it slightly different chemical imbalances.

          I would absolutely stay away from the eye drops if they have steriods in them. Don’t risk it!!!

        • L July 10, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          My guess would be “yes,” it does help the sooner to injury that you start supplementing. Especially the mag. I was severely damaged head to toe and I think one reason I have come as far as I have was that I was getting nutrient IVs within a couple months of floxing.

        • Amanda July 10, 2019 at 5:09 pm

          Thanks for getting back to me L! I also wanted your guys opinion on this- I recently went to the eye doctor and was diagnosed with a minor issue (pre-cipro). He prescribed me eye drops with steroids in them. I still haven’t even opened them because I’ve been too nervous with everyone saying it is imperative to not take steroids. Since they’re eye drops though, what are your thoughts? The exact name is prednisolone acetate ophthalmic suspension 1%

        • L July 10, 2019 at 6:03 pm

          Sadly steroids and cipro are both commonly used drops by ophthalmologists. I can’t advise what you should do, only what I would do. I have not and would not take any steroids since being damaged. I just don’t want to risk it. Now Dr Cohen, in his book, did not seem to have an issue with taking these or even NSAIds AFTER being injured and having stopped the flqs; but I decided I never would take either again. (And I had vision damage from the cipro.)

        • Amanda July 11, 2019 at 9:35 am

          Thank you guys so much! I will make sure to keep you guys updated on my journey- I owe everything to you guys for your supplement recommendations! My liposomal Glutathione should be here by tonight so I will start that tomorrow morning. Other then an overall feeling of achiness/cracking sounds and fatigue I am doing okay. My anxiety has definitely reduced (i am thanking the magnesium oil for this one). I was going to purchase magnesium theonate, should I start off with smaller doses and work my way up? How many mg is recommended? Thank you!

        • Bronwen Duncan July 11, 2019 at 9:59 am

          Re Mag Threonate – it is very absorb-able by the brain/mitochondria, so runs less risk of giving you the runs. The full dose is (weirdly) 144 mg per day (or something close depending on your supplier) and with many suppliers equals 3 capsules per day. This is 144 of elemental magnesium within 2000 mg mag threonate (the binder threonate – similar to a Vit C) makes up most of these mgs. Take ALL in the morning as it can make the brain active – I found I had vivid dreams for a few days. I’d start with about a half dose for a week then go up to a full dose.

          Oh – and to answer an earlier question – yes, I weaned myself off MitoQ after a number of months. FIve years later, I still keep the mag, vit Bs and a bit of NAC going. Which reminds me, the only other thing you may want to add to the selection is a good vitamin B complex. The B12 and folate should be in methylated forms. Thorne puts out an excellent Stress B Complex available on Amazon.

          And I just got back from a very energetic canoe trip. 4 years ago I couldn’t walk more than 500m or so, so healing is very possible! And you’re on it much faster than I was.

  28. Bronwen Duncan July 11, 2019 at 10:00 am Reply

    PS. And you’re young – I was in my 50s (even if fit), so you have the advantage of age!

  29. Bronwen Duncan July 11, 2019 at 10:11 am Reply

    And regarding Liposomal Glutathione – it is controversial so I want to supply you with this: It will replace glutathione that has been wiped out in your body as it has tried to deal with the onslaught of toxins and ROS (reactive oxygen species-induced oxidative stress) brought on through cell death via the Cipro reaction. There is a vicious circle – ROS production is part of the cell cycle, but when the mitochondria are damaged and cannot produce energy, then cells can’t work and the body can’t clear the mess out of the way fast enough so it gets more burdened, the ROS go up and the glutathione (the body’s garbage collector) gets used up. However, the glutathione will pull any toxins stored away in any parts of the body, and when these release you body can react the same it did as the toxins arrived – it has an immune reaction known as Herxheimer reaction. For some people it can be too much, especially as this might include mercury that has built up for years from dental fillings, etc. However, I’ve had mercury in my fillings for 30 years and I found a huge difference by taking liposomal glutathione (some people do glutathione IV instead) but you must make your own decision and do your own research. There is controversy you can look at on this website. IF you decide to, the trick is to take it slow with say, a quarter dose for a week before inching the dose up, and expect to have some level of a reaction, but manage the dose so it is not too much. I found I dipped for two agonizing weeks, and then came out the other side much better… Again, being young, you may not have as much “garbage” that’s built up in your system by now, but just take it slow…

    • Amanda July 11, 2019 at 8:13 pm Reply

      Hi Bronwen!
      So I was born in 1995. I’m almost positive I have never had a mercury filling. I just looked them up (no silver fillings or anything). I bought 250mg capsules but I don’t believe I am able to split them up. It says to take 2 each morning- so should I start with 1? I had my blood work done a couple months pre-cipro. Everything came back perfect except for my b12 levels, they weren’t terribly low but my dr recommended taking supplements. I will definitely purchase this supplement ASAP. I just wanted to thank you again for all of your help and quick responses throughout this process. I am convinced that I would have torn my calf muscle or Achilles’ tendon by now if I didn’t find your site. I have a second job as a waitress. Today was my first day there since the symptoms of cipro have kicked in. I had to spray myself with magnesium every hour but I did it. I’m hoping i didn’t overextend myself- paying for it tomorrow. Will keep you updated on how the liposome Glutathione goes tomorrow . Thank you so much again!! Sending gratitude to you from Pennsylvania

      • Bronwen Duncan July 11, 2019 at 10:23 pm Reply

        Very pleased I could help. Yes – I would take just one capsule to start.

        • Amanda July 12, 2019 at 2:25 pm

          So I took the liposomal Glutathione today. Today was one of the painless days I have had since my symptoms arose, and for that I’m grateful. I am experiencing brain fog though. At first I was anxious, but that has subsided. Other then that I feel okay. Do you think this is all normal? Also, I’ve been looking into liposomal Glutathione and someone said the only one that works is optimal liposomal Glutathione plus (which I did not get) which one did you use?

        • Bronwen Duncan July 12, 2019 at 3:08 pm

          Hi – there is no normal. All our bodies are different. Brain fog is a very common symptom. THe symptoms are not likely to all abate in an obvious way. It is common for symptoms to cycle, for me, first a 5 or 6 day cycle between nearly normal and quite bad and it gradually lengthened out. It can be a bit confusing if you don’t expect a cycling of up and down of symptoms that very gradually show a pattern of improvement. As far as the liposomal glutathione plus, I don’t know – I had some that was compounded from scratch by a local pharmacist and it worked for me. I expect if it is liposomal it will work, but expect there is some info out there on Dr. Google that will hopefully help clarify. Sending healing thoughts.

        • Amanda July 12, 2019 at 6:34 pm

          Thank you so much for easing my anxiety about this. My last question and I promise to leave you alone and give you a day off tomorrow LOL. The liposomal Glutathione made me nervous today, the more I researched it the more nervous i got. Do you think if I take it with the B vitamin you recommended by Thorne I will be less likely to have complications with the liposomal? I just had an outer body type of experience today with the liposomal but I also drank coffee for the first time since being floxed so I’m unsure which of the two was making me feel that way. Definitely not having caffeine again anytime soon. Best wishes and have a wonderful weekend! Thanks for all of your help and advice this week!

        • Bronwen Duncan July 12, 2019 at 9:13 pm

          I don’t think the B vitamin will make any difference to the liposomal glutathione. I think coffee could be a culprit – it did not affect me but seems to affect other floxed people. Unfortunately, we have to end off experimenting on ourselves to figure out the patterns for improvement and healing. You will need to bravely guide yourself through what may help and may not, and then be patient as you gather data on yourself. There are underlying complications (like coffee, like the herxheimer reaction which represents things getting better but feels exactly the opposite, or like the better and worse cycle I explained in an earlier email today. I found it invaluable in my healing, but others found other things more valuable.

        • Amanda Daum July 17, 2019 at 5:23 pm

          Just wanted to give you a quick update. Saturday I opted not to take the Liposomal G. considering my rough experience on Friday. BUT I did get the MitoQ and magnesium Threonate) I took 1 pill of the MitoQ on Saturday and 3 of the magnesium. I had to work a 12 hour shift (waitressing) on my feet. Overall, it went well but by 6-7 PM I could tell my legs had had enough. I constantly had to keep going into the bathroom to rub magnesium oil all over myself. Sunday I took 2 MitoQ along with my other daily supplements and felt great the whole day (granted I was drinking.. which I have decided definitely lessens my symptoms. I was afraid to start drinking again– but I deserve to enjoy myself especially with all of this awful stuff going on, am I right?) Monday I woke up feeling probably my best since I’ve been floxed. I still had continued to not take the Liposomal G. because I was nervous. Yesterday was also a great day. Today, I took the Liposomal and although I had some very very very minor tendon pain and some fatigue I felt good. I know this all sounds great– and it is! But here are my two things. I developed a rash shortly after using the magnesium oil (literally that day) the rash is not very itchy but im starting to think it is dry skin. It literally won’t go away. I slept with vaseline on my hands (covered them in socks) the other night and I don’t even think it made a difference. This is on the tops of my hands, the palm of my hands is also dry but hasn’t developed a rash. Also, the past year I’ve had a problem and I’ve suspected it to be a thyroid issue considering it’s something that runs in my family. I have not gone to get bloodwork because it hasn’t really interfered with my life so far. I’m not overweight (if anything underweight), I’m not constipated, I have a great appetite, etc. BUT after looking into thyroid issues and cipro I am realizing that cipro can cause underlying thyroid issues. Anyway, this may explain the rash. And the chunks of hair that came out in my shower today. This was an issue last summer as well, though so I’m not even sure what to think. That being said, I’m getting bloodwork done tomorrow morning. I am seeing my doctor on Thursday (not the one that prescribed me this awful drug) and hoping that she does not belittle my fears. Other then that I feel the best I have since I’ve been floxed. Thank you for pretending to listen even if you don’t care. This is a great place to vent and feel “normal”. Also, thank you for all of your recommendations. I don’t think I would have come this far this fast without you.

        • Bronwen Duncan July 18, 2019 at 7:29 am

          Hi Amanda. I do care (and I’m not pretending to listen). I’m responding. As far as itchiness goes – magnesium oil can make you itchy where you rub it in for sure. It is rubbing a salt on the skin. I found it lessened over time and I would move the location of where I put the oil on my body. As far as the other symptoms go, of course I can’t diagnose, but iodine is one thing that I started taking as well, which is of course connected to the thyroid. If you look (way) above to my Dec 9, 2017 post I cover the controversial topic of taking iodine. It is probably something your doctor will not be comfortable with. However, it seems the average perso is low in iodine – what we get in iodized salt is just not enough. Please do your own research online. Take selenium at the same time if you decide to take iodine – it is easiest in the form of a couple of brazil nuts a day. Selenium protects you from too much iodine.

  30. Robert Faust August 30, 2019 at 1:00 pm Reply

    Thank you! Thank you! After 14 months of strictly following your supplement list, I have gone from 35% at my worst, to 80% and nearly feeling normal. Greatly reduced and shortened flares, the pitting in my skin is almost gone… Thank you for providing this list my hips are moving properly again… I truly can’t thank you enough…

    • Bronwen Duncan September 1, 2019 at 5:48 pm Reply

      So pleased my experience and research helps others!!

      • Anne September 2, 2019 at 6:18 am Reply

        Do you have any experience with Hashimoto disease in thyroid disease. I have antibodies and wonder if anyone has gone through this?

        • Bronwen Duncan September 2, 2019 at 9:09 am

          Hi Anne. I’m sorry but thisis something I know very little about. Wish I could be more helpful.

        • anne September 2, 2019 at 9:39 am

          Thank you and I forgot to ask about eye floaters. Any idea about what causes it and what to do about it?
          Thanks again

        • L September 2, 2019 at 10:40 am

          Fluoroquinolones destroy connective tissue, including the vitreous (a jelly like substance) in the eye. What you are seeing is the shadow of the vitreous that has pulled away. Time will lessen them—or at least you no longer are aware of them. Something that may help is an eye drop with NAC, like Can C or vision clarity. They are made more for cataracts but can also help with floaters. You have to use them religiously, and keep eye closed for a minute with each use.

        • Bronwen Duncan September 4, 2019 at 9:37 am

          Glad “L” could help you out. Eye floaters are out of my own experience and not something I’ve researched. Wishing you healing.

        • Anne September 4, 2019 at 11:40 am

          Yes thank you, but how do we heal connective tissue ?

        • Anne September 4, 2019 at 11:42 am

          Yes thank you, but how do we heal connective tissue ?

        • L September 4, 2019 at 11:52 am

          That depends on what connective tissue you are talking about. RE the vitreous, I don’t know that there is a way to fix that. Like I said the NAC eyedrops seemed to help some. As for other connective tissue, like tendons, meniscus, that sort of thing…prolozone injections and PRP can help the body repair itself.

  31. Bronwen Duncan September 5, 2019 at 7:58 am Reply

    Hi Anne:
    There is no easy answer. There are many genetic diseases and tendencies that cause poor connective tissue like Marfans, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (look them up on google). I have poor connective tissue (which I assume allowed me to grow very tall) and there has even been some discussion of those having poor connective tissue being more susceptible to reacting to fluoroquinilone drugs. Who knows? There are no definitive answers yet. Our collagen is not as good as some, but if the cure is as easy as taking collagen supplements then these diseases would be curable. They’re not. I DO take collagen (from wild fish) assuming it may help. I also try to make my cells have everything they need to maintain normal function and have the energy to do so with healthy mitochondria. This was through taking all the supplements listed in my article above (now take less), some like vitamin Bs, mitoQ, Vit D and magnesium etc to boost cell function and others to remove the “mess” in the tissues created by cells not working well (those that I list above to support oxidative mess like NAC, liposomal glutathione, Omega 3, etc). I’m sure this helps, but I will still have poor connective tissue all my life – it is part of my genetics. I’m sure L’s suggestions above are very useful as well – all we can do is just minimize the side-effects of poor connective tissue, not eradicate it.

    Hope this helps. There’s lots of information online if you research on google – I strongly suggest everyone does their own reading (pushing through to the actual research studies when you can) and come to their own conclusions.

    • L September 5, 2019 at 8:54 am Reply

      I take every supplement you mentioned. (and then some!)

  32. Harry October 24, 2019 at 4:14 pm Reply

    I took CIPRO in September and after I am having Pain in shoulders and Ankles, Currently I’m taking 1000mg NAC, B-Complex, Selenium 100mg, VitaminE 400, Chealted Mag 650mg/ per day, Vit D 4000 and B12 5000 and AOR Orthocare Multivitamin. I just got the MITOq and was condedering starting it but I’m confused it. i read if your detox pathway CP450 not working properly MITOQ will work against you. Please help me with this. I also have L-gluthaione from Pure Encapsution which i only took once. I taking Epsom salt bath and feet soak and rubbing oil on my ankles. My main symptoms are my shoulder the pain is their but not all the time and moves around to back and front of my shoulders, my energy levels and sleeping is Okay. but i have Candida issue (any suggestion with candida) im taking probiotic for this. Im in Toronto, Canada and my email is

    Any suggestion is appreciated. I ordered this MITOQ. how many im suppose to take in a day.

  33. Harry October 24, 2019 at 4:17 pm Reply

    Also Im taking Coq10 and PQQ. and i ordered REMAG Ionic Liquid Magnesium from Carolyn Dean.

  34. Harry October 24, 2019 at 4:43 pm Reply

    I took Cipro in in September total of 4000mg 8X500mg.Now, I am having issues with pain in my ankles and shoulders… my shoulder pain is dull pain and moves to back and front. I’m using Magnesium oil for the shoulder… for now I’m taking NAC – 1000mg, Mag Chelate-650mg,(tried Mag Glyscinate) i do have chronic constipation since childhood. Also, Vit C,D 3000 Vit E-400, PQQ, COQ10 (ubiquinole) and probiotics. I also got MITOQ(cellular energy) but confused about for some people saying it work against if CP450 detox pathway is not working properly(looking for help in this situation). another issue i am having is the candida I’m taking probiotics for candida but any further suggestion is appreciated.

    I also ordered Remag Ionic Liquid Magnesium(I read this one also cross the blood and brain barrier). i bought L-gluthaione from pure encapsulation took one today.

    Drinking Chicken Broth and Collagen Hydrolysate.

    Please let me know if their is anything else that can help me with the situation. I’m in Toronto Canada. email :

    • L October 24, 2019 at 5:05 pm Reply

      That all sounds good. But you want actual bone broth, which differs from regular chicken broth, if you are taking it to help heal your gut. (and buy organic.)

    • Bronwen Duncan October 24, 2019 at 6:31 pm Reply

      Hi Harry

      Wow. You have done your homework!! I’m in Canada too. I’m so glad you’ve started trying to heal early on after reacting. It will lessen the damage. However, it does take time to counteract the destruction and symptoms will cycle up and down. But you are totally doing the right things!!

      Just a note – over the next few days the L-gluthione might start working by making you feel worse. Look at my July 11 post above about how you are likely to get worse before you get better as the glutathione starts clearing out everything bunging your cells from mitochondrial breakdown (and as it circulates the body on the way out the body reads it as toxins and reacts). However I found it very important, helping me turn the corner in healing.

      Wishing you healing!!

  35. Harry October 24, 2019 at 6:20 pm Reply

    Should i start taking MITOQ is their any side effects ?Am i suppose to take 1 or 2 pills in morning?. yes im taking organika chicken broth protein powder which is antibiotic free. Im tryin to get rid of Candida… is their anything that can help me with candida ?

    • Bronwen Duncan October 24, 2019 at 6:46 pm Reply

      I wish I could offer concrete answers , but I’m not a doctor, and honestly most doctors are just trying to do their best with incomplete information – All I can do is talk about my own experience. I”m also a strong advocate of researching down to the scientific studies online, where I have spent many many hours confirming my own approach to healing. I would start with one MitoQ pill in the morning and then move to two. I don’t know about the effect of MitoQ on the CP450 detox pathway – this is something new to me, so all I can suggest is an in-depth google search, and you could also reach out to the company directly. They have a contact form – it might be interesting to see what they say. The bottom line is though that our bodies don’t read the text books and each of our bodies are genetically different and therefore have a different potential side-effects with any supplement or drug. We just have to do what makes sense and then measure the results on ourselves!!

      I would look up Saccharomyces boulardii as one approach to helping with Candida.

    • L October 24, 2019 at 6:56 pm Reply

      still not sure when you say “broth” that we are talking about the same thing. organic CHICKEN BROTH is not the same as BONE broth, which is cooked for around 24 hours to get the stuff out of the bones.

      I used to take mitoq and I think I took one but can’t recall. You should also take a good probiotic with multiple strains and billions of units

  36. Harry October 24, 2019 at 7:17 pm Reply

    My town water is fluoridated water … I ordered a water filter pitcher?
    I believe i should be making Bone broth at home … or is their a place where i can buy it?

    Is their any other supplement would you like me to take or to increase or decrease the amount please suggest ?

    Can I take L-glutathione in morning and 500X2 NAC in after and night ?

    • L October 24, 2019 at 7:33 pm Reply

      Hard to find a filter for fluoride. I buy water at a water store. I think Henk might know about filters for fluoride.

      You can make bone broth at home but it is long and tedious. A lot of electricity! You can buy it most places now, even regular grocery stores. But all health food stores will have it or you can order it like from here (or somewhere closer to where you are) You can buy the actual broth or a powder. I would start with just a small package and try it. It’s definitely an acquired test. Very strong, not like regular chicken broth. As for L gut and NAC, it really is so individual. start slow and experiment. (I use NAC a great deal)

    • Bronwen Duncan October 24, 2019 at 7:58 pm Reply

      Hi – I think if you’re taking glutathione you don’t need NAC – N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) is an amino acid that acts as an antioxidant and is a precursor to glutathione. It probably doesn’t hurt if you take both, but you could also keep it in cupboard to go on when you choose not to take glutathione down the road (it’s like the baby cousin of glutathione).

      And I think the amounts of supplements you mention are good. The only thing I might add would be a top quality B vitamin. Seeing you’re in Canada, I would suggest AOR’s Advanced B complex as it has methylated forms of both B12 and Folate. The B vitamins are needed for body chemical reactions driving our energy.

      I filter my water to remove the chlorine. I actually decided later in my cipro journey to take iodine and it seemed to help. So this another supplement you might want to add, but this is controversial so please do your own reading. I take Genestra iodine drops, but many people swear by lugols. I’d started seeing a number of comments about low iodine and Cipro because of the fluoride in the Cipro, as a fluoroquinilone, going in and replacing the iodine in the body. Apparently, bromine, iodine, and fluoride all sit beside each other in the periodic table and the body “thinks” they are the same thing. Therefore, if you take fluoride into your system it starts replacing the iodine, which is necessary in many organs, not just the thyroid, and this actually stops some body processes from being able to work well! I can’t seem to post links on this site without my post disappearing, so please google “Iodine in evolution of salivary glands and in oral health” and I’m sure there’s lots more information to find as well. But like I mentioned earlier, Iodine supplementation is controversial even if from my reading it seems a huge percentage of our population is short in iodine and the Japanese diet is vastly higher in their iodine intake. Anyway, once again, poke around the internet and come up with your own conclusion. I can’t advise you take it, just that you research the possibility. If you do, you also should take selenium – very easy to do in the form of a couple of brazil nuts each day.

      Hope this helps

      • Harry October 25, 2019 at 12:16 pm Reply

        I’m having shoulder pain which radiates upper back shoulder and front … i’m worried that my shoulder torn or tendinitis … but i have full range of motion and strength in arm… any recommendations for this issue. And im takin Magnesium chealate is still normal to have loose bowel in morning or am im having leaky gut? Cuz i was reading if i have leaky gut nutrients absorption is less.

        It all started when i took cipro i was feeling Ok and then i took ibuprofen i was still feeling ok and then one day out of curiosity i start reading about CIRPO side effects and i had emotional breakdown and start having pain in my left shoulder and same night had panic attack.

  37. Harry October 25, 2019 at 6:21 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen

    I’m going to buy Progressive Harmonized Protein Vanilla 840g and Iodine. Apart from is their anything else that can help ? Should i Start taking Zinc supplement?

    For shoulder sometimes i think its the muscles those are really tight around shoulders (due to less magnesium). I’m trying Cold massage and Hot shower trying to get blood flow and get rid of toxins from shoulder? Today im having pain in Jaw too what im thinking it might be due to the tight/inflammation in shoulders ?

    • Bronwen Duncan October 25, 2019 at 7:49 pm Reply

      Hi Harry:
      I remember reading somewhere that if your body is extremely low in magnesium, it can have a hard time absorbing it. Whether that is true or not, I’m not sure. But I found all the normal magnesium supplements without diarrhea for a while, so used the magnesium oil as well – which you’ve mentioned you used – to enter the body through the skin instead of the intestine. I believe different people find different mag supplements work well for them – some though are much better than others. Naturopaths often recommend mag bisglycinate, but I found I’m better on Mag Malate and some others find Mag Citrate good. I don’t know much about the ionic kind you’re on, but sounds like you researched it. I still take the AOR mag malate renew. I started at 100 mg and went up to 400 mg which I still take now.

      Regarding your shoulder – this is still one of my symptoms, but in a stable and less intense way. I’m not sure what advice to give other than it ends off being OK to live with, and you may end off having more healing in the shoulders than I. So much of what we experience does not yet have reasons associated with it in the medical world. Originally, I wondered if I’d almost broken a tendon, and the tendons in my arm would be very painful and one day about 10 days after taking cipro when I was playing cello I felt them kind of lose their integrity – unravel, was the word I used at the time! Same as you though, I’ve always maintained the strength. I’ve seen a number of practitioners over the years to try to figure out what the residual tightness is – I find it is in the front of my chest, very intensely in the right shoulder and radiating down the arm and towards the neck. Very strange. I used to think the tightness was scar tissue or something along the length of the tendons, but now I wonder if it is actually an inflammation. Who is to know? Anyway I went on a canoe trip this last summer doing about 60km against the wind each day, so the strength stayed! But tight as heck still! I stretch a lot. I also had it radiate to the jaw and lymph gland swelling behind my jaw and under my arms, which also points to inflammation.

      I don’t know much about zinc. I never added it to my list of things to take, but others have.

      You are doing ALOT right!!! You are more than likely giving your body everything it needs to stop things from becoming worse, and giving it the ingredients to heal. It’s not a nice journey to go through this and healing simply just takes time.

      • Dee October 26, 2019 at 7:16 am Reply

        Bronwen, I am 28 months out and “mostly” recovered. I still battle early morning wake up and frequent “loose” bathroom visits in the morning. I’m trying to heal my adrenals for the wake up. Any suggestions for healing adrenals?? Also I’m mainly writing to ask about your shoulders….last month out of the blue my left shoulder started hurting terribly. So bad that I couldn’t lift it. Went to Doc and got MRI and I had 2-3 small tears. Not bad enough for surgery but getting physical therapy. Did your shoulders start bothering you right after floxing or did it take a long time to come on?? I had not dealt much with tendon issues other then sore, achy, stiff joints the first few months so was a little surprised by this??!! Do you do anything for your shoulders? Like taking collagen? How often do they flare up and for how long? This shoulder thing is all new for me! I pray my other joints like knee and ankle will stay strong. It seems so odd to me that the shoulder tears would suddenly hit me 27 months out!!?? What do you think??

        • Bronwen Duncan October 26, 2019 at 10:29 am

          Hi Dee: I’m not a doctor or a naturopath. I wish I had more knowledge. All I know is my own experience and the research I did on my own symptoms. I’ve heard about the connection with cipro and adrenals but never researched it so I’m no help in this regard.

          I took notes on the first year of my after cipro adventure (and just had to go refer to them as it’s now been more than 5 years) and the shoulder damage actually happened the 4th day while taking cipro and continued to get worse intensely for 3 weeks and then started to turn around at month 6. But my experience is not an indicator of whether your experience is within a range of normal for cipro reactions. But continue to do everything you can to to help moderate against further damage. I would continue taking whatever supplements have helped you so far. I’m never going to stop taking magnesium, B vitamins (methylated folate and B12) and Collagen and some version of antioxidant when I feel a bit of a a dip (NAC now, when I was really bad Liposomal glutathione). I think you should be sure to keep the antioxidants going to help your body clear out the ROS that accumulates when cell function is not optimal. Make sure you’re eating very well too as all those little nutrients our body needs can not come from supplements. I don’t know what country you are in, but there is not guarantee there is no fluroquinilone given to beef or pigs in the States or Canada, although poultry is supposed to have too short a life to be fed antibiotics. (In England and other countries poultry can be fed antibiotics though). I only eat wild fish, and especially avoid all shellfish, unless it has been harvested locally (wild). Shrimp from Asia can be laced with antiobiotics.

          The fact is that every body is different and gets harmed differently too. I think my upper body got tendon issues and not the lower because I am much stronger in my lower body. I think my heart got affected because it probably was not my strongest organ.

          My personality probably drove a philosophy not to stop all action, but on the days I was good, stretch whatever piece of my body so it had to perform a little more than was comfortable. So I’d walk my heart a kilometer in the beginning and later more. And I’d do every shoulder stretching and strengthening exercize I could trying to find the balance between getting stronger and not further damaging myself. I am stubborn and active so this just seemed what I had to do. But again we are all different. With your shoulder tears it sounds like this is what you’re doing with the physical therapy so good for you.

          Yes – I take collagen and will do for the rest of my life. I have poor connective tissue, not enough to actually be diagnosed with Marfans or ehlers danlos syndrome but genetics counsellors suggested I’m borderline. There is one theory out there that those react to cipro have poor connective tissue. It would be interesting for some scientist to study, but meanwhile, I just take collagen even if I’m unsure if it helps or not! I take marine collagen from wild fish skin. In Canada, I get Sproos brand, but there are others you can research.

          That was quite a long answer…

        • Dee October 27, 2019 at 12:08 pm

          Thanks Bronwen!!! I appreciate your feedback!!I am in California so as far as the meat goes I always buy antibiotic free when cooking at home. On occasions I go out to eat I don’t always know if the meat has antibiotics or not but so far I’ve seemed to be ok with occasional restaurant meals!! Of course I still cycle some but not as often and the intensity is less. I am 63 so I am guessing I may take longer to heal?? I think a lot of Floxie’s can cycle for 4/5 years and then I think most feel pretty well. Just my observation!! I am starting to take collagen since this last shoulder episode. How many mgs do you take a day?? When did you feel like you finally had most of your recovery and cycles behind you?? Thanks for getting back to me!!!

        • Bronwen Duncan October 27, 2019 at 12:25 pm

          Hi Dee
          I take about 4 grams of Collagen day. The dose is supposed to be a scoop which is 10grams but that gets expensive! I felt I had most of the cycles behind me at about 4.5 years (so your observation is bang on!), but I’ve felt endurance improvement this summer on a canoe trip so that was at 5 years. I guess I felt recovered at 3 years, just cause I was so much better, not realizing that I still would heal more. I still cycle a bit and still have heart and upper body tissue issues, but I’m close to your age (58) so consider that I’m actually very healthy compared to many my age now. In some ways this awful adventure taught me what is important in life and I live it more fully even if my heart feels a bit weird sometimes (even if a cardiologist says its OK!).

        • Dee October 27, 2019 at 7:21 pm

          Bronwen, Great to hear you feel on top of your game again!!! I am learning to be patient in this healing journey and as long as I am moving forward which I feel I am then I have high hopes for my future!!! Thank you for your info and suggestions. Let’s keep on keeping on!!!!

  38. KK October 25, 2019 at 10:46 pm Reply

    if your heart rate is fluctuating a lot and not going to cardiologist is very bad idea. If heart rate suddenly jumps from from low value to a very high value it can create blood clout and then possibly heart attack, it can happen in sleep. For such conditions doctors give blood thinners or else you can have device implant which controls electrical signals and heart rate.

  39. Harry November 4, 2019 at 5:37 pm Reply

    Above you mentioned about L-gluthathione ( which brand are you taking) and how you wrap in Fat ? please tell me i wanted to try the samething.

    • Bronwen Claire Duncan November 4, 2019 at 7:55 pm Reply

      Hi Harry: When I took liposomal glutathione it was compounded for me at a little alternative pharmacy. The way the pharmacist explained it to me, the liposomal part is basically a wrapping around little pieces of glutathione, that the body thinks is fat, so the glutathione is taken in it’s little fat wrapping to the liver, which is where the glutathione is used, instead of making it to the intestine where the glutathione is digested as food instead of being used by the liver.

      When I took it – 5 years ago- there was hardly any on the market. Now there seems to be many options through Just make sure the one you get says it is liposomal.

      • L November 4, 2019 at 9:56 pm Reply

        and I would add to that a caution. Apparently they have found some “fake” supplements on Amazon. I would prefer to get it from somewhere like vitacost

  40. jmhp November 5, 2019 at 1:22 pm Reply

    Does anybody have any info on taking tamarind to detox .
    Thank you

    • BronwenbDuncan November 6, 2019 at 9:00 am Reply

      Sorry – I have no experience with tamarind.

      • jmh December 10, 2019 at 4:05 pm Reply

        Hi, coukd you give me the website link for the Q10 please?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 10, 2019 at 6:34 pm

          Hi. It is MitoQ. I can’t post links or my comments disappear. But put in google “MitoQ New Zealand” and it will come up no problem.

        • Jmh December 11, 2019 at 10:33 am

          Is it fluoride or fluorine that poisons us? Is it the same ? Would sauna help ?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 11, 2019 at 11:28 pm

          Hi JMH. I’m not a chemist but I took a quick look on google and it seems people use fluoride and fluorine interchangeably when they shouldn’t. Three toxic elements include Fluorine, Chlorine, and Bromine are detrimental because they tend to block your body’s Iodine receptors. The fluoride, the negative ion of the element fluorine easily displaces iodine in the body because it is much lighter and therefore more reactive. I don’t know if a sauna would help as this is something I’ve never used myself nor researched. I took iodine but this is controversial so please do your own research on the matter before doing so.

        • Jmh December 12, 2019 at 4:56 am

          Ok thanks, so you took iodine to clear your body of the fluroquinolone ?

        • Bronwen Duncan December 13, 2019 at 8:27 am

          Hi JMH. I took iodine to help some symptoms of the fluoroquinilone reaction. It helped me but taking iodine is controversial. I wrote a lot about this in my Dec 9, 2017 (two years ago) post above, and also my Oct 24 post of this year. Please do your own research before deciding to take or not. And also take selenium at the same time (brazil nuts are a good source).

  41. Kumar December 1, 2019 at 10:35 pm Reply

    I got awesome results after eating 1-2 Azadirachta indica (Neem) Leaves 2 times a week and total 7-8 times in month that’s it, don’t eat more than that. My resting heart rate used to be be very high now its in the range 60-75

  42. kk December 26, 2019 at 9:37 pm Reply

    Hello Bronwen,
    I think you had experienced Takotsubo Cardiomyopathy (TTC) and its temporary and reversible. You can reverse it by controlling proper diet, water intake and very light exercise. Just do 2D eco testing and find out your ejection fraction ratio and chest x ray to find out if there is any water accumulated. If ejection fraction is low you may feel tired and exhausted as heart’s reduced capacity of supplying oxygen rich blood. Just do more research in this all the best.

    • Bronwen Duncan December 26, 2019 at 10:19 pm Reply

      Thanks for your information. I’ll look at this more closely.

  43. Paul Gilbert January 16, 2020 at 2:09 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen,
    I also read Dr Lee Know’s book. Im a bit confused on his D-Ribose recommendations of taking the standard 3-5 grams per a day but doesn’t really advise on dosage for people with issues for there mito. The New Roots brand starts at 100 grams which much higher than that. Not sure if this is one of those supplements that your body stops producing once you consume too much through supplementation.

    • Paul Gilbert January 16, 2020 at 2:43 pm Reply

      NVM! lol. I misread the label on line. its obviously 100 -250 g for the whole container and you take 3-5 grams a day.

      • Bronwen Duncan January 16, 2020 at 8:11 pm Reply

        Oh good. Glad that sorted out OK. Hope it helps.

  44. jmh January 17, 2020 at 9:15 am Reply

    Can anyone recommend a good test to determine your mineral levels in your body?

    • L January 17, 2020 at 11:14 am Reply

      My integrative doctor ordered a very extensive test for me. I assume it was quite expensive, but insurance paid. It was from Genova Diagnostics and the test is called NutrEval. It shows antioxidants, B vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, digestive support, amino acids, glutathione, need for pancreatic enzymes and probiotics, toxic exposure level and methylathion, malapsorption levels, cellular energy and mitochondrial metaboloites, Yeast/fungal/bacterial disybiosis markers, neurotransmitter markers, peptides, oxidative stress. A lot!

      • jmh January 17, 2020 at 11:35 am Reply

        Thank you, do you know about how much the cost would have been?

        • L January 17, 2020 at 12:35 pm

          I don’t and I threw away the insurance papers that would have shown that. I imagine if you contact them they could give you some idea

        • jmh January 17, 2020 at 12:37 pm

          Thank you very much. this looks like a very good test.
          Do you think you had a lot of benefit from it?
          And what way was it helpful to you?

        • L January 17, 2020 at 1:19 pm

          yes. I got a copy for my own records, and it gives all the individual information and then summaries…total of 23 pages! Then my doctor went over it all with me. It was a bit of a relief to see the mitochondrial function all appeared normal. But what was interesting is that things I DO supplement with, like the Bs and magnesium, and EPA fish oils, were still low. So that suggested I just was not assimilating it somehow. My body was not actually using what I was supplementing. So my doctor upped my probiotics, put me back on digestive enzymes, as well as suggesting a pancreatic enzyme. (So while had been spending a LOT of money of supplements, I was throwing much of it away since I couldn’t actually use them. (malabsorption) Very helpful to know. I started back taking two digestive enzymes with most meals, and now take one. (Haven’t yet added the pancreatic enzymes but plan to do that) It was also helpful to know that. There was also a bit of Bacterial dysbiosis—another reason for the probiotics. (I had actually been on probiotics but perhaps the brans I was using was not effective or not strong enough) There is a breakdown of bacterial and Yeast/fungal dysbiosis…and I was only partially out of range on a few of the 8 they listed.

  45. Gerardo Martinez March 17, 2020 at 3:51 pm Reply

    Thank you. I recently took 14 days of ciprofloxacin in February 2020. 2 weeks ago tightness in chest, thumping heart. Went to ER not heart attack, but no help either. Lost a lot of energy, hard to function. Will try recommended supplements. Doctors no help. How is your progress today? Blessings 🙏

    • Bronwen Duncan March 17, 2020 at 6:47 pm Reply

      Oh gosh. So sorry. I found my heart started to improve after the Magnesium, MitoQ, D-ribose and L-carnitine. And I resorted to liposomal glutathione – but your reaction is very recent so maybe NAC will help instead. Take a look at my post above that I wrote on March 6, 2018, as it is very pertinent for helping a heart through cipro poisoning.

      For me, I got much better a couple months after I started all these supplements, maybe to 65% of normal, and then it took a long time to very gradually improve a little year by year and I’m probably at about 85% for my heart of my fit former self. I’m back to hiking long distances, but not long distances, uphill with a heavy backpack!

      But I’m not young and every body is so different. And it seems you’re going to start supplementing with the “right” things earlier than I did. Wishing you healing!!!!

      • Gerardo Martinez March 18, 2020 at 10:38 am Reply

        Thank you for the excellent advice. I am still dumfounded, how much damage Cipro did to me, maybe due to my age early 50s. I have begun telling my family, due to the reaction possibly having genetic connection.

        • Bronwen Duncan March 18, 2020 at 10:48 am

          I was 54 when I took cipro. And the irony is that my dad also reacted to cipro but we hadn’t figured that out when I took it. It explained a ton of weird and dangerous health issues that he had. So, I am convinced there is a genetic component. I believe there is probably some connection to poor connective tissue, or maybe that is due to a common genetic source that also enabled the cipro to enter as far as the mitochondrial DNA. The issue is that there is little interest in putting many research $ into this. Meanwhile, people continue to get damaged. Anyway, glad you’re being so proactive and if I’m an inspiration, I’d say I’m in much better health than most people my age now, even if cipro took a toll along the way.

  46. CB March 27, 2020 at 3:46 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    I am two and half years post 24x500mg Cipro. I’m mostly normal now with the exception of minor dry eyes/tinnitus but my body is still extremely reactive to certain supplements like Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E, Iodine & calcium/magnesium so I have to be very careful with supplements.

    I started taking a liposomal Glutathione and my body’s reaction is very interesting. I can only tolerate maybe 3 drops maximum and it causes symptoms to flare in different parts of my body. The first day my eyelid in one eye became blocked/swollen (and cleared itself) and other days my tinnitus is louder or my skin is sensitive when rubbing against my clothing and basically feels sunburnt. This reaction wears off after a day but I am curious if this was the type of reaction that you experienced when you took the Glutathione.

    I know a lot of people say that the Cipro doesn’t remain in the body but my symptoms are confined to such specific parts of my body that I think there could be something that needs removing. The alternative is that the glutathione is just flaring my symptoms and not doing anything positive.

    Kind Regards,

    • Bronwen Duncan March 27, 2020 at 5:37 pm Reply

      Hi CB – liposomal glutathione helps your liver remove toxins from wherever they are. In reference to floxies I expect (but I am not a scientist) that this is toxin build up that the body has hidden away from sub-optimal chemical reactions the body had to resort to while navigating a broken system. I had a strong herxheimer reaction, which is when the body reacts to the toxins as they are dislodged on their way out of the body. So, in effect it can mimic the initial reaction of when they first arrived. Taking liposomal glutathione can be controversial as it can also dislodge toxins that have been well hidden for years such as mercury from old fillings. My reaction was pretty strong, but I also recognized the symptoms as how I would feel at the worst bottom-end dips as I reacted to cipro earlier on. So, I persevered, giving myself 2 weeks to improve or I would quit it. I can’t advise you what to do. I expect the l glutathione is dislodging something that your body is reacting to strongly, so there are two options I guess,,, take just tiny bits and watch carefully, spreading it out so you feel in control and eventually get through to a better place. This was my approach – to the point that if I took a new supplement, and it seemed to initially make me worse, I started realizing this was the hint that it was being effective and eventually make me better. Or maybe I’m wrong in reference to you, and your body is reacting to it and you should stop! This is where you need to do your own internet research – digging down to the scientific literature and listen to your own intuition. I know it is hard, but in the end both these things helped me understand the best path forward for MY body, which is different from everyone else’s! Including yours…

      Sorry I haven’t been much help. I’m not a doctor – I just have my own experience and limited research that I can share.

      Wishing you all the best

      • CB April 12, 2020 at 5:21 pm Reply

        Thanks for your reply Bronwen. I thought I’d post an update for anyone reading this in future who might be in the same situation.

        I took Lipolife Liposomal Glutathione in very small doses. After a few days of symptom flaring, I started getting some damage to my eyes which I recognise as flashing orbs in my vision where I believe my vitreous partially detaches from my retina.

        I’m confident this is not a herx reaction and I have now discontinued glutathione.

        • L April 12, 2020 at 7:25 pm

          Interesting. Post Cipro I had SO much vitreal detachment. I would quite literally see entire walls and floors covered with hundreds of floaters. I saw flashing lights. I had a terrifung 10 minute “light show.” I also had some visual nerve damage. My eyes really took a hit. I was then diagnosed with macular degeneration within three months of the Cipro. That was around 4-5 years ago.

          Recently I have been getting glutathione IVs one-two times a week AND taking liposomal glutathione on the other days. No issues. (This horrible breathing thing I have been dealing with for more than two years now, may be mold related…which is beyond frustrating. I and all the doctors immediately thought “mold,” but my landlord had a professional mold tester come in and then I was told there was no mold. Well, as it turns out, after actually seeing the report, there were low levels, that might not have bothered anyone else but I am very allergic to mold, and also I imagine my body is now compromised because of the cipro. I am taking a test but it could take 2-3 weeks to get the results. So meanwhile, lots of glutathione. And that will be the continuing treatment if it comes back positive.

          I know we are all different and don’t all react the same way, but I would still bet the vision issues you experienced were from the Cipro (levaquin…whatever you took) and not the glutathione.

        • Bronwen Duncan April 12, 2020 at 7:40 pm

          Gosh. Sorry you’re experiencing this. Everyone’s body is different, and every potential cure is different. I think it is really important and good that you’re listening to your body and making what seem the best choices for it. I wish that there was some flow chart of exactly what every floxed person should do based on symptoms but every body has different factors coming into this too.
          Wishing you healing!

        • L April 12, 2020 at 8:07 pm

          Oh, wouldn’t that be great! (flowchart)

  47. Adele Maria April 5, 2020 at 8:17 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen, I live in Quebec, and wanted to thank you for your inspiring story and research. I had a severe adverse reaction to levaquin on August 23, 2019, and am still recovering. I wondered – as far as the cycles go: did you notice anything that triggered them, or did they just appear spontaneously? And were your cycles of 6 -10 days spaced relatively far apart? I’m also looking for a physician in Canada, who has knowledge of fluoroquinolone toxicity – as my insurance company requires this. Conventional MDs or specialists with this specific knowledge are hard to find! Just wondered if you ever came across one – through your journey.

    All the best,

    • Bronwen Duncan April 5, 2020 at 9:04 am Reply

      Hi Adele – Although I have a theory, I can’t be sure why there are cycles and I found that nothing in particular triggered them. I should mention that I found that as I healed the cycles became less intense and more spread out, eventually every 3 months or so with a couple weeks of not being quite right. My theory: I expect the cycles are due to the body removing waste that has accumulated by the system not working well (from things like ROS, cell damage, mitochodrial damage) and reacting to these toxins in its system as they move out, and then having a clearer system for a while where it can keep up with this daily chore without overloading, and then it gets overtaken with the amount again. This made sense to me and it psychologically helped to believe that the low times were because my body was trying to work hard to correct things, not because it couldn’t. I’ve also noticed that every supplement that I gave my body that was helpful would make me feel really good for a day or two, before making me feel quite awful through what I am sure is a herxheimer reaction, where the immune systems in the body react to toxins as they are released on their way out of the system. Then I would come through to better overall level of healing a couple weeks later.

      As far as a Canadian doctor who understands fluoroquinilone reactions, no – I never found one that knew how to help nor heard of one elsewhere across the country. Most were sympathetic and wished they could, but it was obvious, whether a specialist or GP, that I knew more than they did about these reactions – that I had become a specialist in this very narrow area of research, and they would even say so! I would also turn up with tables outlining what I was doing to help myself and hard-copy scientific studies, so I think I get their attention quickly and actually helped inform some who were less familiar, who now no longer prescribe Cipro or Levaquin. I also saw four naturopaths while trying to heal, and only one had knowledge that was aligned, understanding how to help help heal mitochondrial damage. I think if I was trying to find a doctor, I would ask them if they had experience with treating people with mitochondrial damage. There is an American website which includes treatment info and a list of doctors that treat mitochondrial diseases (I know this is much broader causes than fluoroquinilone reactions, but based on the same broken body systems and potential cures) and I wonder if it might be interesting to contact them to see if they have any Canadian counterparts in Quebec?

      Wishing you healing

    • L April 5, 2020 at 9:38 am Reply

      Most allopaths don’t understand it (or even recognize fluoroquinolone toxicity. Worse yet , the stress from trying to deal with them only makes matters worse. What I would do is a search of “integrative physicians” and if you find any close, call and ask about their experience with it. Not sure if they are listed here as well, but you can find NDs and other REAL healthcare practitioners. (It was a naturopath who quite literally saved my life. If you can find one who does IV therapy, all the better. That’s what turned things around for me and I was a worst-case scenario.

  48. Adele Maria April 5, 2020 at 10:53 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen, Thanks for replying so quickly – very kind of you. That makes sense about your theory of our bodies removing toxins during the cycling phases. I noticed, in my case, my first big relapse or cycle came after getting a bad flu in October. Next one came after I walked up our mountain (not very far, only maybe 150 metres ?) in the first big snowstorm in November, where our car was stuck. That pushed me beyond my limit, and I was absolutely flattened for 9 days or so afterwards (all symptoms of first 2 weeks came back).

    I have had several cycles since, the most recent one I am presently experiencing – came after pushing myself to the hilt, writing a 24 hour exam for work last Monday. In this case, there was no physical exertion, but cognitive, and also my nervous system was on overload! I have really crashed following this, with achilles and overall tendon pain very exacerbated, dizziness, gastro issues, eye pain and strain, and the deep fatigue that is so all – permeating. With a couple of cycles I have not been able to pinpoint the origin – but with many, I feel it is after I have pushed just a bit too much (the new version of pushing – which in the past would never have caused a reaction at all). And maybe some cycles just appear, as part of the process….

    It’s encouraging to see that you have healed so well. I keep my hope up, and won’t give up. You do seem to have a wealth of knowledge on this topic! Thanks for your suggestion about doctors that treat mitochondrial diseases – I had just been searching those this morning! I’ll keep looking…

    Thanks for being so supportive, Bronwen,

    • Juan M Rosas April 30, 2020 at 4:05 pm Reply

      There’s no cure for cipro crippling effects . Al the medicines won’t help you. Cipro will cripple and then kill you slowly. This medicine is commiting genocide around the world. Why is prescribed by doctors? You can buy all the supplements and medicines and you never will recover .Recovering is bs. Thalidomide was good compare to cipro.

      • L April 30, 2020 at 4:13 pm Reply

        I understand your hatred of this “medicine.” I share it. But there are treatments. They can be expensive…I spent over $60,000 that I didn’t have to begin with, going into debt. But you do what you have to do. Which issues are you dealing with, Juan? Let us try to help you. (I don’t know how long you have been on floxie hope…but at my worst, I could not walk without assistance. I was down below 100 lbs. I gasped for every breath, couldn’t see more than a foot or two in front of me and even that was so full of floaters it was like looking through gauze; it tore the meniscus in both knees; it gave me horrible olfactory nerve damage to where everything in the world asphyxiated me. Loud tinnitus. Had a total of around 30 side effects including nightmarish mental ones as well. I have a hard time believing I actually made it through the first year, but I did. I was a worst-case scenario (likely because I got prednisone at the same time.) I prayed for death every day…but I’m still here. So, how can we try to help you?

        • Jerry Martinez April 30, 2020 at 9:05 pm

          Juan I hope you try the supplements mentioned here. I was fixed in 👂 February 2020. Why did I take a medicine with a black box warning.?? I have been helped by taking l carnitine, milk thistle, co q 10, vitamin A, C. Brazil nuts and pumpkin seeds help me too. In early March felt like I had 10 lbs on my chest, heart felt like exploding. Went to ER no help. Brain fog and forgetfulness set in. About 7 weeks with supplements, I feel about 60 percent better. Heart still pound , but not like it’s gonna explode. I can walk without losing too much breath. Read the recovery stories, see what can help you. Best wishes.

      • Bronwen Duncan April 30, 2020 at 6:09 pm Reply

        And I’ve healed to about 90%. I realize this may not be the reality for some, likely because they are damaged worse than others or have different genetic resilience, and this reality is outrageously harsh and unjust. I’m so sorry for anyone who is suffering!! However, same as “L”s comment above, please hold onto your hope. Healing can be ridiculously gradual.

  49. Alex May 25, 2020 at 7:29 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    I believe I may be suffering from being floxed by Ofloxacin. I was on a 14 day 2x200mg course for suspected Epidymitis which I finished on Wednesday of the week just gone. Ironically i was offered Cipro originally but refused to take it and was told this was my only alternative and so I did. Ironically I do not believe it has cured my Epidymitis which appears to be reoccuring today.

    I called my doc twice whilst taking the medication for muscle/cartilage stuff but was told that I should continue the course. Considering the Epidymitis pain I continued. On the last 24 hours of medication I felt a mild chest pain, pain under my arm and back a weird tightwning sensation up the left side of my neck and a tingling feeling in my jaw. This turned into a much larger pain the next day.

    Symptoms at the moment:
    The weird pain in the chest, under arm comes and goes. Also feels like dripping liquid in my armpit sometimes.
    Slight headache has built last 2 days
    Sleep is very hard to come by
    My RHR is all over the place. Usually i could guarantee it being in the 60’s with not much variation. I can be sat doing the same thing (nothing) and have it dodge between 55 and almost 90. Sometimes its been over 100 literally just standing there, then next second its back down to 75.
    I feel emotional, I’ve had crying outbursts and at other times shown anger and irritability when there was not enough cause.
    My muscles mainly legs but also arms and back cramp and hurt. My joints click a lot.

    I’m obviously only a few days past finishing this course and its been the weekend. I saw my doc on Thursday about a totally different treatment (Endoscopy for Gastritis/Ulcer concerns) and she said she thought the muscle shoulder thing was lymph related and we will keep an eye on it.

    I’ve got some low level magnesium tablets with 5-HTP so i’ve taken these short term with muscle ache, it appears to help but its only 180mg mag.

    I’m ordering supplements as we speak, but if it was your first week, knowing what you know now what would you get/do?

    Looking for any help or advise I can get before this gets worse.

    • Bronwen Duncan May 25, 2020 at 8:18 am Reply

      HI Alex – Ugh. So sorry you’re going through this.

      You need to find a medical person who believes you. Take info to your doctor and if they won’t believe you, find someone who can. Nature magazine has a good artilce “When Antibiotics Turn Toxic – Marh 21, 2018, and on this site is a whole page of resources (I can’t add links in my posts, or they won’t post – some glitch in the system), so use the search engine on this website looking for “Links and Resources.” It seems there is more knowledge among doctors than there used to be regarding the risk of fluoroquinilones but many doctors are still oblivious. Your drug seemed to be a quinilone, not a fluoroquinilone, but from other stories on this site it seems to cause similar reactions.

      And how great you are doing research and trying to improve things early on!!!

      You have to try to do two things – give your body the raw resources that ofloxacin may have robbed in order that essential biochemical reactions that keep your cells healthy can be re-established. This includes the mitochondria being able to create energy. And then you need to clear the toxins (ROS) that has built up due to cell destruction so things can have an opportunity to improve.

      I’m glad you’ve started magnesium as it would be the first thing I would reach for. I don’lt know anything about 5-htp, so I’m not sure if this would help or hinder. But I do know about magnesium and.all magnesium options cannot be absorbed well depending on what they are bound to. Our bodies can not absorb magnesium on its own, so it is always bound to somethings else. (I wonder what your’s is bound to?). Some combos are quite useless. The best are mag citrate, mag malate (which I take), mag bisglycinate, mag taurate (good for the heart), or mag threonate (and for the brain and mitchondria – which I also take). Some bodies like one better, some bodies like others better. I would definitely take mag threonate. Start with one capsule (full daily dose is 3 at a total of 144 mg). You can find this on amazon if it is not in your local health food store. Also take one of the other mags, starting at 50-100mg elemental mag amount (only a portion of each supplement is mag as the rest is the carrier that enables it to be accepted by the body- it should hopefully say on the side of the bottle the elemental mag amount – and work up to 300-400 elemental mag amount over a couple of months. If your body rejects it (diarrhea) then you need to start getting it in your system through your skin instead of your mouth. You can by rubbing magnesium “oil” or spray onto your skin a few times a day and take epsom salt baths. Then very gradually add in the mag by mouth.

      B complex – where the Folate in a form which is already methylated – meaning the body does not need to convert it from an unusable form before using it – and some bodies are not able to well as they have MTHFR gene issues (one potential cause of reacting to fluoroquinilones!) A methylated form of B12 is also importanat. I’m in Canada and we have an AOR advance B for the methylated forms of B12 and folate plus a well-balanced selection of all the other B vitamins. Thorne puts out a good one too but it is more expensive.

      Although it is expensive, I also feel the MitoQ (look online – comes from New Zealand) is well worth taking! It is chemically altered so it can go right inside the mitochondria to provide CoQ10 which is hard for the mitochondria to access otherwise.

      The best thing it to listen to your own body, because if upping the amount of a supplement starts improving a chemistry pathway (such as methylation) that has been compromised, it can also releases toxins that have built up and this can make the body react against them. This is called a herxheimer reaction because the body is trying to repel them, even as they are loosened from hiding places on their way out. So, slow and steady with all changes! Up doses slowly.

      So how do you help the toxins and oxidative stress leave? There are all kinds of antioxidants (e.g. Omega oils or milk thistle) but I’m not at all sure with your body sounding quite compromised that they would be enough at this point, so I’m going to point you to glutathione which is your body’s own master antioxidant even if it is controversial to take. There’s also options that directly boost glutathione, but again maybe not enough at this point, as you have to have enough glutathione already working for them to be able to boost effectiveness. For example, whey protein is great as a glutathione precursor, but probably not enough on its own to deal with the oxidative stress in your body. NAC (N-acetylcysteine) is a protein precursor to glutathione, but it can only work if you still have some glutathione capability. I had to resort to taking glutathione itself. This only works if it is liposomal glutathione (wrapped in fat so it makes it to the liver before the body digests it as just food) or IV glutathione. If you take other sources of glutathione then your body might just view it as food, not essential help. You have to trick it by getting it past the digestion system. I found NAC did not work until glutathione could clear off some of the oxidative stress first. There is much controversy on this site about glutathione, but all I can say is it was essential to my healing. But again, we are all different so please read about the controversy in the comments on my page and in other stories too, and make up your own mind on what is best for you. Some people have found (e.g. those with amalgam fillings) that the glutathione can dislodge many toxins which overwhelm the body. I have amalgam fillings and certainly had a 2-week long herxheimer reaction which I just decided to stoically suffer through, where things got worse before they got better. I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half and then just occasionally.

      I do hope this helps you. Sending healing thoughts

      • Alex May 26, 2020 at 8:08 am Reply

        Thanks Bronwen, I ordered a lot of things that hopefully will arrive soon. I was really encouraged by your story and advice.

        I’m struggling to keep hydrated currently due to gut issues and/or something else so drinking water like its going out of style. Diet at the moment is basically Porridge, protein shake (pea though not whey), maybe eggs and salad or soups and rice usually brown. My partner is veggie and that helps with some of the food intake. We have fortified veggie “milk” alternatives that have calcium and some vit D.

        Thanks for your help so far. Will report back when I can update with more details. Very thankful you have done so much on this for others through your own journey.

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