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Restored 1972 Chevrolet C10 Longbed Pick-Up

This 1972 Chevrolet C10 pickup is said to have received a body-off restoration, and looks remarkably clean inside and out. We’d change the modern steering wheel,but otherwise this looks like a turn-key driver for less cash than we usually see them offered. Find it offered here on Craigslist in South San Jose, California for $12k.

1972 Chevy C10 For Sale Front

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9/18/13 at 8:04 PM

If this were a short bed it would be sold already…….

9/13/13 at 10:27 AM
Ron A.

Tom R.-Thanks-Longhorn-I’ve only seen a couple of those and it was quite some time ago.

9/12/13 at 7:36 PM

As 1300 Junior said, you’ll find coils or slrings in either GmC or Chev. I had an earlier series 1/2 t GmC with coils, and also a ’65 3/4 T with coils. ( and a humugous rear diff. )
Coils give a very nice ride. This seems like a very good truck. Priced just about right.

9/12/13 at 1:31 PM

Ron A: You’re thinking of the “Longhorn”, which was a long-bed with an extra six inches added to the front.

9/12/13 at 1:14 PM
Ron A.

When I saw “long bed” I thought it referred to the really long bed-9 feet? Not sure if that was a camper special, may have been a 3/4 ton only-anyone have a better memory than I?

9/12/13 at 1:13 PM

I do typically prefer the GMC look over the Chevy look; but not for every single model.

9/12/13 at 12:42 PM

@neil: The old dog-in-the-cab wife-in-the-bed play, eh? j/k

I had two friends with these trucks when I was in high school. Loved ‘em, lots of character. Like others have said, if I was in the market for a pickup truck . . .

9/12/13 at 10:25 AM
Tom R.

Will the FUD about the ’73-’87 side-saddle tanks never end? BlueBug: the Dateline program that “broke” that story later had to admit that the whole thing was fabricated. See:

Oh, and as Type44 mentioned, that wasn’t this model truck.

9/12/13 at 10:18 AM

+1 for “buy it, drive it every weekend to home depot.” Exactly what mine is for, and more than half the time, by the time I get back outside there’s someone eagerly waiting to chat about it.

Not much could improve on this…maybe a tilting 69 Camaro steering wheel and white painted steel wheels and hubcaps.

9/12/13 at 10:03 AM

If that sounded unclear: The suit was involving trucks with under body mounted tanks. This does not have that design, unlike the 1973 successor which is the kind you are referring to in the matter of a lawsuit..

9/12/13 at 10:01 AM

Sorry, no. Factual inaccuracy. The tank on these is inside the cab. That may well be more dangerous than under the body. I don’t know. But the lawsuit you refer to is applicable only to the next generation truck- 1973 to 1987. Period.

I can see the filler cap in the photo, the tank is not located where you claim it is.

9/12/13 at 9:44 AM

Just remember this is the very type of truck that the huge GM lawsuit spawned. They explode when hit from the side, and the drivers and passengers are often, perhaps typically, burned to death or gravely injured. Pretty as it is it is a risky proposition.

9/12/13 at 9:32 AM

@mainlymuscle. The $20k trucks are not long beds. The bigger money is due to rarity, not how much is spent to get it in this condition. Don’t get me wrong, I like the truck and would drive the wheels off of it if I owned it. That being said, I wouldn’t pay $20k for it because there’s nothing rare about it. If it was a short bed, among other less common features, then you’re talking the big money.

Look at the Mecum auction history on these trucks and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

You’re right, there are 30 guys above that would love to own this truck, I’m one of them. But I doubt you’ll find that any of them are willing to pay $20k… and there you have what a market is based on.

9/12/13 at 8:42 AM
Stephen Hansen

Art Center instructor and ex-GM designer Harry Bradley once regaled a class of future car designers with the tale of witnessing one of these pickups being crash-tested back in the day…and how the impact tore the rear window out of its weatherstripping, neatly severing the neck of the crash dummy behind the wheel.

Told as only Harry could, it had all of us on the edges of our seats waiting for the inevitable climax…

9/12/13 at 8:36 AM

Jaston,you are waaay out of touch.A truck like this fetch’s close to $20k at many auctions.Your farm find is gonna go for close to 10 if its dry,add another 10 easy, to get it where this one is.And ,as to why would you want to?There are 30 guys above who just told you why.This truck will function as good as your 2012 Silverado,probably better, cuz all new trucks seem to be shortboxes.It will turn more heads than a new sixty thousand dollar Raptor.
I, for one,prefer it to the very nice 62 Impala featured today !

9/12/13 at 8:21 AM

You definitely couldn’t build one like it for this money, but why would you want to? There’s nothing rare about the truck. Nothing particularly special about them either… If you have some special memories of this particular model then this is a steal.

I am in farm country. Every farm in the area has one of these long beds parked in the shed or in the weeds. Some of them are in nice condition for a restoration, but you can’t even come close to getting your money back out of it.

buy it, drive it every weekend to home depot.

9/12/13 at 7:09 AM

See, if I had a truck like this, I’d have to have a nifty old cafe racer to put in the bed. Just because they’d look good together. That and I would get a Southwestern-motif seat cover, sit the dog next to me on the bench seat and make lots and lots of unnecessary runs to Albright’s Hardware Store. Life could be good with a truck like this.

9/12/13 at 6:49 AM

67-72 GM’S are the best trucks to have, followed perhaps by the sharp 79 Ford.They can haul around whatever you want,and ride really nice.The powertrain is bulletproof and easy to work on, and the parts supply support is endless. I prefer the GMC quad headlight look too.The factory a/c is sooo nice-the chrome bezels really add a lot to the looks of the dash!I have always thought the long box was just as attractive as the shorty, in this style, and the ride is infinately better.The right box rails can really add to the gentleman farmer look.
I bought a 20,000 mile original owner 71 unit a few years back.Pulled into the farm yard estate sale and spotted this thing with old knobby winter tires on all corners,plus a spare mounted to a homemade front mounted bush guard.Truck was utility company turquoise with white roof and bottom trim and white interior.I paid $7500 for it,removed the cow catcher and replaced the wheels with rallies similar to this one.That quickly the truck went from an old working farm truck ,to a sporty cruiser and weekend utility vehicle.I drove it for 6 years,maybe 8000 miles,and sod it for $12k.Unfortunately ,that experience lead me to believe there was money to be made in the collector car game!
NOT ! This looks like a super solid deal,GLWS

9/12/13 at 5:21 AM

I have a 72. Looks just like that. Onlygreen. And crappier.
That looks like a great deal. It doesn’t take much (cam heads exhaust) to make that 350 drag worthy.
My wife says that the happiest moment she had this summer was riding in the back of our truck down a dirt road looking at clouds.
Old trucks rock. I paid very little, stone cold reliable and fun as heck.

9/12/13 at 12:51 AM

I love these but prefer the dual headlight look of my 72 GMC 3/4 ton.

9/11/13 at 10:08 PM

My ’72 c10 just hauled a load of trash to the transfer station, under 4500 lbs cost $6.38 , thank you simple little Chevy.
The coil spring rear suspension is just like a Nascar stocker.
You need really good shocks but that long lower control arm gives a really nice ride. This truck is too nice to use, but cheap enough to use it up for a second time — just rust proof it please!
The Cab room is not great in some ways, but they have a huge glove box. And a gas tank behind the seat. And these trucks never have the original steering wheel, mine has a ’55 Chevy truck wheel.

9/11/13 at 8:50 PM

A C-10 is on my short list. I need one a little farther gone so it isn’t sacrilege when I drop it down and add a ’60s style chrome door knob grill.

9/11/13 at 8:32 PM

Having owned several of these 67-72’s in various conditions over the years I can say this is 100% a good deal. As long as there’s no hidden rust or bondo under the paint you could not build this truck for that price.

9/11/13 at 8:25 PM
Mark in Maine

Nice truck. I recognize that wheel – I pulled one out of a junkyard Cavalier RS and installed it in my ’92 s-10 many years ago. It looked good and worked very well in the S-10 – doesn’t really work in this C10..

9/11/13 at 8:23 PM

Steering wheel is from a 1990s Lumina. Valve covers aren’t chrome from the factory, the exhaust isn’t routed like that out to dual chrome tips either, and those wheels are from a 1985ish Chev truck. And that’s just what I can see in a handful of pics, and I am no Chevy nut.

So what? There isn’t an NCRS for old pickups. None of those things aren’t quickly reversible. I bet it doesn’t have a battery that you have to check water level on, organic compound brake linings, or bias ply tires anymore either. Is that also a problem?

Personally I would just add an OD automatic box from a later model and upgrade the stereo so as to hear Waylon Jennings and Bobby Bare more accurately, a truck like this just puts me in a rare country frame of mind…

9/11/13 at 6:57 PM

@”steve in orange” Both Chev and GMC were equipped with coils as standard equipment. Leaf springs were offered by special order. GM felt the better ride offered by coils was a real selling point. Real nice ride on the highway, but washboard wasn’t it’s forte! Nice Truck!

9/11/13 at 6:50 PM

What’s up with the steering wheel – is that original? If not, what else?

Love the truck otherwise.

9/11/13 at 5:48 PM
William Robinson

Man if I had the cash id be on a plane right now. While I prefer the 73 to 87 style just for memories sake these just look better and can be made to handle a load or take on a road course… what more could one want? Except maybe air conditioning. So nice.

9/11/13 at 3:30 PM

I owned a ’73 half ton full size GMC for many years – it was a comfortable truck and provided a stellar ride and handling. Recently I had the chance to buy a low-mileage ’72 GMC for a great price and took it, intending to recapture that ’73 GMC experience. No such luck – the cab of the ’72 was noticeably more cramped than the ’73, and the ergonomics just weren’t as user friendly. I think that each generation is attractive in it’s own way, so the only advantage the ’72 had was a better resale value.

9/11/13 at 3:13 PM

@type44 – I seem to remember reading that this generation of truck was considered too pretty, not tough enough, the redesign for 1973 was thought to be a masculine look. I read that many years ago so I can’t provide reference for it.

9/11/13 at 1:59 PM

Needs BRE stripes.

9/11/13 at 1:03 PM

Not in the market for a full size pick-up right now, but if I was, this would be the one.
Classic design, refresh all aound, It’ll last for anothe 40 years with normal maintenance.

9/11/13 at 1:00 PM

When I take the back way home I see two of these sitting side by side under a carport. Been there for years and from I have been told by a friend who asked, they are not for sale.
Good family friend had one of these as a new truck. Black/short/wide though. Had to order it since no dealer stocked the shorties. They thought he was nuts. Kept in shape, drove it 20+ years and got a lot more for it than he paid for it.

9/11/13 at 12:55 PM

The C10/20 series shot up in value about 10-15 years ago but now the truck crowd seems to have moved on to full-size Broncos. Definitely the best looking “modern” pickup from the Big 3. And the 350/350 combo is a classic.

The shortbed might be worth more but longbeds are exponentially more useful.

9/11/13 at 12:31 PM

@Type44 I agree completely on the appeal of the earlier designs. Unfortunately I think inflation conspired to set everyone’s design timetables back several years. AMC, for example, never did redesign the cars they launched in ’71.

In San Jose? A daily driver for sure. In Detroit? Keep it under wraps until the Dream Cruise.

9/11/13 at 12:28 PM

IIRC, GMC’s had leaf springs, Chevy’s had coil springs. My grandfather was a GMC man, and all his trucks were leaf-sprung.

9/11/13 at 12:03 PM

Dennis: Only the 1/2-ton C/10 came with Coil springs, IIRC. I don’t think they were particularly popular (witness that they didn’t come back until recently, and then only on Dodge). A fellow I know who had one insists that they are even worse on a washboard dirt road than leaf-sprung trucks. YMMV.

9/11/13 at 12:00 PM

I didn’t know that they came with coil springs in the rear.

9/11/13 at 11:41 AM

Fantastic. Who needs a $30K new pickup when you could drop an A/C kit in this and have a classy daily driver? Notice that it had an aftermarket A/C in it at one time: the holes in the firewall are still there. My ’74 C-10 had one of those add-on units (from Sears as I recall) and it could easily freeze the whole cab.

If this rig is half as nice as the pictures suggest, it will sell quickly. If I had space for another truck, I’d pick this up in a heartbeat…

9/11/13 at 10:47 AM

Nice! Wish I had the space/budget. Did you ever think you’d be drooling over a 40 year old pickup truck?

9/11/13 at 10:25 AM

Classic, great condition and hell, I’d drive it for the next 20 years and never regret it. Something timeless about the styling. Just says everything right to me.

9/11/13 at 10:04 AM

Love these. Have a ’72 C/20 Camper truck. Fill the tank, get a dog, open the windows, and cruise.

A sliding rear window makes a huge difference in comfort in an non-A/C truck.

9/11/13 at 9:54 AM

Best looking Chevy Trucks, and bulletproof and easy to work on. This would be a nice secondary hauler. Buy this plus a VW GTI and who needs a CUV?

9/11/13 at 9:52 AM

Such a clean, appealing design. Two decisions I never understood at Chev back then- first, replace the Sting Ray with the less-appealing C3- then keep that around for 15 years,

Then, drop this pickup for a new design in 73, equally not an improvement. And keep it around for 15 years.

I just don’t see what would have been the harm in building this kind til at least 1980?

9/11/13 at 9:39 AM
Fulgencio BaT-ista

Lots of upside to this truck if it’s as advertised. Just in utility alone, it’s essentially a new truck..and what can you buy for that price? No plastic, no printed circuits, US made pickups never got any better than this. And, in one of my favorite color combos as well.

Obviously, somebody put real money into this C10. If I were the one doing it, and already had the bed and cab off the frame, I would have cut the frame, and put on a short bed. It would be selling for a lot more than 12K.

9/11/13 at 9:35 AM

9/11/13 at 9:32 AM

add a/c with a Vintage Air kit.

9/11/13 at 9:20 AM

In the “Related Stories” listing is a 1972 BMW 2002tii Touring. Hmmm… :)

9/11/13 at 8:52 AM

Pretty colors. Looks like the tank is still behind the seat. That’s the first thing I’d change.

9/11/13 at 8:47 AM

Frame off on a 72 long bed? Don’t get it, but he certainly has more than the asking price. Must have been a restoration out of love. Happens all the time and these can be great deals. He got his pleasure out of it and now someone gets to enjoy his work. Too bad no A/C.

9/11/13 at 8:39 AM
Brandon C

She’s a real beauty, though personally I prefer a little more of a hot-rod vibe for these as far as power goes. You’d be surprised what a call to Hotchkis can do for these rear-coil trucks.

9/11/13 at 8:38 AM

Nice! Always a fan of these in two-tone. Original stance was always good, no need to mess with it. All the wear bits, chrome and glass, look fine. Just-right powertrain, too. A bed pic would be a bonus. I don’t need a pick-em-up right now, but if I did, I’d sure look here.


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Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Definition of Irony: Sam Zell Sues Former Tribune Shareholders for Money Owed

Does anyone remember what Sam Zell was reported to have told Tribune Co. shareholder employees around the time of his 2007 buyout of the company? No? Let's remind you: “I’ve said repeatedly that no matter what happens in this transaction, my lifestyle won’t change. Yours, on the other hand, could change dramatically if we get this right.”

We now know that Zell didn't get it right and his lifestyle hasn't changed, if his recent purchase of the Elysian Hotel is any indication. But that didn't stop Zell from filing two lawsuits against former Tribune Co. shareholders to recoup $225 million.

The suits, filed by the Zell-controlled company EGI-TRB LLC, makes clear that Zell still believes the buyout was legitimate, but hedges his bets should a federal bankruptcy judge rule the buyout as fraudulent.

Zell owns a $225 million Tribune note, which makes him a creditor and he wants to preserve his rights to collect what he can, should the judge rule the buyout was a fraudulent conveyance. It's a genius move, yet devilish at the same time.

Contact the author of this article or email with further questions, comments or tips.

Sam Zell sues former Tribune shareholders

In a strange twist even by the standards of the tangled Tribune Co. bankruptcy, billionaire Sam Zell filed two suits against the company's former shareholders seeking to claw back proceeds from the failed leveraged buyout he led in 2007.

The suits, filed in Cook County Circuit Court by Zell affiliate EGI-TRB, piggyback on allegations by Tribune creditors that the debt-laden $8.2-billion buyout was a fraudulent conveyance, meaning it left the owner of the Los Angeles Times, KTLA Channel 5, Chicago Tribune and other media assets insolvent from the start.

That Zell is suing alongside the creditors is ironic given that he has been a principal target of their ire.

Creditors have contended that as architect of the deal and chairman of Tribune's board, Zell breached his fiduciary duty by pushing forward with the deal.

But because he owns a $225-million Tribune note, Zell is also a creditor and filed his suits Monday in that capacity.

The suits make plain Zell's belief that the fraudulent conveyance claims lack merit and that shareholders who benefited from the buyout should be entitled to their proceeds.

But if a judge were to disagree, Zell wants to preserve his rights as a creditor to collect his share of any claw-backs from shareholders, the suits said.

Zell attorney David Bradford said that his client's real aim in filing the suits is to gain leverage in his attempts to persuade the creditors to settle their disputes.

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Friday, April 24, 2009

Wine of the Week - Domaine Oudin Chablis

2006 Domaine Oudin Chablis Les Serres, $22, Jenny & François Selections. Christiane Oudin and her husband Jean-Claude took over her father's small 2 hectare estate in Chichée, very close to the town of Chablis, in 1988. Christiane's father did not bottle his own wine, instead selling his grapes to the négoce, and his farming methods were quite far from organic - perhaps guaranteeing a full harvest and supporting his family were more important to him than organics and biodynamics. The nerve on him! Christiane and Jean-Claude preferred a more natural farming philosophy, and now their daughter Nathalie continues in that direction.

The family has acquired more land since 1988 - there are now 8 hectares, including small parcels in two 1er Cru vineyards, Vaugiraut (.75 hectare) and Vaucopins (.40 hectare), the latter of which is not imported to the US. There is also a basic Chablis which is not imported to New York, although it does go to other states.

I emailed Jenny Lefcourt to ask about Les Serres and she said that it means greenhouse, so perhaps that plot of vines is in a warmer spot than the other village-level Chablis holdings, only the best of which also make it into Les Serres. The wine is fermented in tank without added yeasts, and aged in tank also, spending 2 years on its lees. This extended lees-aging gives the wine a rich and creamy nuance that acts as a counterpoint to the vivid acidity and the sharp minerality of the wine.

The 2006 is a beautiful wine, an attention grabber. Not because it is super concentrated or brimming with fruit or anything like that, but because it is so perfectly balanced. 2006 was a warm year in Chablis and I've had several wines that are flabbier than usual. This wine is razor sharp though, with a lithe muscular frame that right now in youth is coiled with potential energy. The fruit is perfectly ripe - not at all overdone, and there is great acidity. The wine feels supple in the mouth, and there are typical Chardonnay characteristics of citrus and orchard fruit, but this wine is absolutely and unmistakably Chablis, with prominent seashell and iodine notes, and almost punishing minerality. White flowers drift in and out, waves of fruit pass through, but the Chablis core is steady, and the wine is completely and exuberantly delicious. It's utterly drinkable now, but it seems well structured enough to cellar well for up to 5 years, although that will be genuinely difficult to accomplish unless I put what I have left under lock and key, and lose the key.

Joe said...

Seems like we are seeing more Chablis here as of late - anything prompting this? Loved your post on pickled herring, and I would love to try some of those homemade delicacies some day.

Brooklynguy said...

Hi Joe - I guess it's a matter of my view of QPR. I find that $20-25 buys me world class Chablis, as opposed to pretty good white Burgundy. Lately I have to be as productive as I can with every $20-25 purchase. Pickled herring coming your way, provided you're in town in November or next spring.

RougeAndBlanc said...

Have you have the chance to compare the Les Serres and Oudin's other cuvee, the Fourchaume?
Also, where did you find the Les Serres at $22?

Brooklynguy said...

hey andrew - i didn't know they even make Fourchaume. I thought they make only what I wrote in this post. that's what the importer told me, anyway...i found it for $22 at Astor Wines, although the price is a little bit higher now.


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Yes, You Too Can Be an Evil Network Overlord With OpenBSD 49 49 writes "Have you ever wanted to know what's really going on in your network? Some free tools with surprising origins can help you to an almost frightening degree. Peter Hansteen shares some monitoring insights, anecdotes and practical advice in his latest column on how to really know your network. All of it with free software, of course." From the article: " The NetFlow protocol was invented at Cisco in the early 1990s. It's designed to collect traffic metadata, where the basic unit of reference is the flow, defined as the source and destination IP address pair, the matching source and destination port for protocols that use them, the protocol identifier, time started and ended, number of packets sent, number of bytes sent, and a few other fields that have varied somewhat over the NetFlow versions. ... On OpenBSD, various netflow sensors and collectors had been available for a while when the new network pseudo device pflow debuted in OpenBSD 4.5."
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Identification, Images, & Information
For Insects, Spiders & Their Kin
For the United States & Canada
Clickable Guide
Moths Butterflies Flies Caterpillars Flies Dragonflies Flies Mantids Cockroaches Bees and Wasps Walkingsticks Earwigs Ants Termites Hoppers and Kin Hoppers and Kin Beetles True Bugs Fleas Grasshoppers and Kin Ticks Spiders Scorpions Centipedes Millipedes

winter beetle - Oiceoptoma

winter beetle - Oiceoptoma
Washington County, Wisconsin, USA
March 6, 2010
Size: about 20 mm
Saw this beetle crawling on the snow while X-C skiing. It was warm, maybe 40o F. perhaps a carrion beetle? any known to come out on warm days in winter? image is not great, had small camera with me while skiing.

Moved from Barklice, Booklice, and Parasitic Lice.

Sorry I meant to move one image over to Psocodea and accidentally moved like 10 there. Whoops!

Moved from ID Request.

I think (I hope!) your size estimate is off. If it's really 20 cm, you sure grow 'em big up north!

Something in/near
Oiceoptoma, perhaps?

The Guide has records as early as April for these critters in Wisconsin.

I'm no expert, however, so please wait for a second opinion.

Winter insects are crazy.
Haha I like that the description is "It was warm, maybe 40F". I'm a WI native, but have moved out to CA and have to listen to everyone gripe and moan about how cold it is when its 40 out...

I plan on moving back to WI :)

correct ID...
error in measurement.

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Check BNN and Bulbanews for up-to-date Pokémon news and discuss it on the forums or in our IRC channel #bulbagarden on

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Hi, I love Star Wars and Pokémon. I'm addicted to Pokemon LeafGreen and I live in Canada. My favorite Pokémon are Nidoking and Articuno. I like Nidoking because it's tough, strong and looks very menacing. I like Articuno because it looks the most graceful of the Legendary Birds

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Blogs > Burney's Bytes

Burney's Bytes will focus primarily on the local preps sports scene, but will also touch on some college and pro athletics, mostly in regards to athletes who hail and have played high school sports in Oakland County. My goal for the blog is to be conversational and anecdotal, a more relaxed and free formal take on high school athletics than you see in regular game day coverage.

Wednesday, July 25, 2012

True Blue Forever

Following in the footsteps of his two older brothers, Birmingham Brother Rice three-sport star Jason Alessi has decided to become a Wolverine.
Alessi, a standout on the Warriors' football, basketball and lacrosse teams verbally committed to the University of Michigan earlier this week for LAX.
Matt Alessi and Joey Alessi, Jason's elder siblings, are both currently enrolled at UofM, where Matt is on the Wolverines golf team.
Joey was a hoops stud in his time at Rice, leading the Warriors to back-to-back Class A district titles as a junior and senior in 2010 and 2011.
Jason, an incoming junior, is a LIGHTS OUT talent in every sport he competes in.
On the football field, he is the starting placekicker and free safety on the school's defending state championship gridiron squad. During the winter on the hardwood, he's an all-league shooting guard on the Warriors basketball team.
Then, there's he best sport, lacrosse, where he's helped guide Rice to state championships the past two springs.

Want to know what the best thing about my boy Lil' Aless is? We've got two full more years to watch him show his stuff before he heads off to Ann Arbor!!

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Preventive care has many benefits

Posted on November 7th in News

Dr. Johnston presents findings to HDH board

By Samantha White
Burns Times-Herald

At the Harney County Health District Board of Directors meeting held Wednesday, Oct. 24, Dr. Kevin Johnston said he has been working with a team since June to provide intensive case management and preventative care to a patient who has had health issues as a result of obesity. Johnston said, as a result of the team’s efforts, the patient lost 70 to 80 pounds and no longer requires full-time use of a wheelchair. Johnston also reported that the patient’s blood sugar levels have improved.

Johnston said the team is attempting to demonstrate that it is both healthier and more cost-efficient to focus patient care on prevention, rather than just treatment. In other words, it would be better for patients’ health and cost less money if doctors shifted their focus to working with patients to prevent illnesses, instead of just treating them when they occur.

Johnston said the team was not paid to provide the preventative care and admitted that costs would have been significant if team members were paid for their services. However, he said, without preventative care, the costs to treat the patient would have been significant within the next one to two years, as it is highly likely that the patient would have accrued multiple, long-term hospital stays and tremendous out-patient and caregiver costs. He said these long-term costs would have outweighed the costs of preventative care, even if the team was paid. Johnston added that, before receiving preventative care, the patient required a lot of costly assistance and resources that were in addition to medical expenses.

Johnston said some of the medical students who he has been working with may write a case study about the team’s success with providing preventative care to this patient.

Harney District Hospital (HDH) Chief Nursing Officer (CNO) Barb Chambers said assisting the patient was “interesting and pleasurable.”

In response to the team’s findings, Board Chair Sam Caizza said, “This may be the wave of the future.”

CNO Chambers said HDH is ready to buy its ambulance and hopes to have it by Oct. 31.

She said HDH is also working on purchasing a second power lift stretcher to assist Emergency Medical Services (EMS) staff. Power lift stretchers can be raised or lowered to the desired height with the push of a button, reducing the number of times that EMS staff are required to lift patients manually.

HDH EMS employee Jeff Sceirine said using a power lift stretcher has prevented a lot of injuries to EMS staff. He explained that the staff had a high rate of injuries resulting from lifting non-power stretchers, and these types of injuries have not occurred since the power lift was purchased.

Sceirine said the current power lift was purchased at a discounted cost of $12,000, but the average cost is about $15,000. Sceirine said he does not think that the second lift can be purchased at such a discounted price. For comparison, a non-power lift stretcher costs about $5,000.

In the previous meeting, held Sept. 26, the board decided to table the discussion of policies “Board Roles & Responsibilities” (policy 100.025) and “Membership on the Board of Directors” (policy 100.010) until the Oct. 24 meeting. However, Board Chair Caizza removed discussion of the policies from the Oct. 24 agenda because he said he would like to get more feedback from the Human Resources (HR) department and give board members more time to review the policies. Caizza suggested that the board table discussion of the policies until it meets for its retreat.

Caizza suggested that the retreat be held in January, but did not specify a date. The board agreed to hold its retreat in January and decided to determine the exact date during the next board meeting.

Caizza said the retreat will also give board members an opportunity to focus on strategic planning and determine whether the board’s mission is “in line” with the current direction of HDH. He said the board should also consider the factors that will impact the hospital’s future, and he requested input from HDH staff, including doctors, regarding other topics that should be discussed during the retreat. Caizza said he hopes to set an agenda for the retreat during the next board meeting.

In other business, the board:

• appointed Dr. Oleg Reznik to the HDH medical staff;

• heard from Dr. Johnston that, with the addition of Reznik and Dr. Sarah Laiosa (who will begin practicing full time in January), the HDH Family Care clinic may expand its hours. He said he would like to survey patients to determine whether they would benefit from having the clinic open earlier on weekdays and/or open on Saturdays. He said he would like to “expand the clinic’s availability so that patients don’t have to use the emergency room or other expensive care alternatives” when the clinic is not open;

• heard a report from Development Coordinator Denise Rose who stated that the hospital has almost filled all of its positions. She added that two new nurses and a certified nursing assistant (CNA) have been hired. “The staff is pretty robust now,” she said. Rose also reported that the hospital “took a clean sweep” in the Xi Delta Gamma Chili Cook-Off held Saturday, Oct. 20. She said the hospital won first place in the competition and received the people’s choice award. She said hospital employee Nikki Cross also won the apple pie baking contest. Some members of the board joked that Cross and other HDH staff members should cater the next board meeting;

• heard a report from HR’s Sammie Masterson who said that the department is working with HR Answers, an HR consulting firm, to develop an employee survey, which should launch in late October or early November and be sent to employees via email. She said the department decided to work with an outside company, rather than develop the survey in-house, because she thinks staff may be more open and honest when responding to an outside company;

• decided that, due to upcoming holidays, it will combine its November and December meetings into one meeting that will be held Dec. 12.

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Located in: Home > Business > Company News > Lisa Ann Wins Two Fanny Awards: First Annual Exxxotica Fan Voted Awards

Lisa Ann Wins Two Fanny Awards: First Annual Exxxotica Fan Voted Awards

New York—Adult star Lisa Ann garnered two Fanny Awards this weekend during the Exxxotica Expo in Atlantic City. One was for the Who’s Your Mommy “MILF of the Year” Award and the other for Movie of the Year, for Lisa Ann Can’t Say No.

The “Leader of the MILF Revolution” was recently featured in the New York Post, which reported her to be the number one porn star in the world. Underscoring her popularity, fans lined up to meet her at the Club Magazine booth, with an equally impressive turn-out at The Diving Horse, where she featured immediately after accepting her Fanny awards.

Lisa Ann will also be inducted into the XRCO Hall of Fame this week, and is nominated for XRCO MILF of the Year and Mainstream Adult Media Favorite.

The well-publicized lover of sports—especially basketball—will also be talking NBA playoffs tomorrow evening on Sirius XM’s Fantasy Sports talk channel, on the ‘Fantasy Drive’ show with hosts Ray Flowers and Tony Cinotta, airing 6pm-8pm EST.

She also will be appearing at The Cadillac Lounge in Providence, Rhode Island April 25-27, featuring dancing and judging a MILF contest. For more information, go here.

Fans can find Lisa Ann on and follow her on Twitter.

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Located in: Home > Business > Company News > Mitsuko Doll Hits Exxxotica Chicago, Offers New Website Feature

Mitsuko Doll Hits Exxxotica Chicago, Offers New Website Feature

VENICE, Calif.—There is little Mitsuko won’t do to help her fans get the opportunity to spend a little quality time with her, but maybe this time she’s gone too far: She’s decided to open up access to recording of her paid shows – for free!

Now members of can see exactly what they’ve been missing in the paid shows. Is this the kind of mad business decision that sends her to the poorhouse, or simply a sexy girl determined to give members their money’s worth?

“It’s very simple,” she says. “If they’ve missed seeing me live on cam or can't afford paying for a live show, they can now watch what they've been missing. It’s just one of the many benefits of being a member.”

No doubt the list of members will expand after this weekend when Mitsuko attends the Exxxotica Expo in Chicago. She’ll be holding court at the MyFreeCams booth, ready for conversation, photos and signing autographs and even broadcasting from the show floor.

Look for her at the MyFreeCams booth this Saturday, July 13, from 3 - 7 pm. Stay tuned to her Twitter to find out when she’ll be camming.

Her MyFreeCams page is here. For information on her affiliate program, go here.  Follow Mitsuko on Twitter @MitsukoDoll. For more on Mitsuko, go here.

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Located in: Home > Business > Company News > Streamate's Pornstar Camhouse Doubles Down On The Derrieres

Streamate's Pornstar Camhouse Doubles Down On The Derrieres

LOS ANGELES—Streamate proudly presents a full slate of spectacular shows on their Pornstar Cam House channel when the sexy girls of Pornstar Camhouse deliver another fantastic live cam shows this Wednesday.

On Wednesday, Pornstar Camhouse presents a special double dose of big ass goodness. Two of the hottest stars in the industry are on tap for an hour of hardcore boy/girl exploits starting at 8 p.m. PST. Don't miss a minute of the action as busty Alanah Rae joins big butt queen Kelly Divine. Best known for her amazing boobs, Alanah will put her buns on the line when she goes cheek-to-cheek with the amazing ass of Kelly Divine. Don't miss a single minute of this epic match up! BONUS:

The preshow is free and starts at 7:30 p.m.

For more of Streamate visit here,  here and here.

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Canadian manufacturing sales slip 1.4% in October

More from The Canadian Press

OTTAWA — Statistics Canada says manufacturing sales declined 1.4% in October to $48.8-billion, reflecting drops in aerospace products and parts, motor vehicle assembly and the primary metal industries.

It says the declines were partly offset by higher sales in petroleum and coal products as well as the wood product industries.

Overall, sales declined in 12 of 21 industries, representing approximately 71 per cent of the manufacturing sector.

Durable goods sales decreased 2.9% to $24.7-billion, while sales of non-durable goods rose 0.3% to $24.2-billion.

Constant-dollar manufacturing sales fell 2.4% in October, indicating a decline in the volume of manufactured goods sold.

Sales were down in six provinces, though the decrease was concentrated in Ontario, where sales dropped 3.4% to $22-billion.

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The training covers SBA loan options including which loan program meets a specific entrepreneurial need. The session begins with the 5 C’s of credit including character, cash flow, collateral, capitalization and conditions. It then transitions to an overview of SBA’s actual loan programs. Lastly, specific information will be shared about interest rates and repayment terms plus our preferred, community express, and SBA express lenders. Whether you are an existing entrepreneur or have given thought to starting a business, this seminar will put you ahead of the game in government guaranteed lending.

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Based in Columbus, Ohio, Business614 provides affordable web site design, print services, web site design consulting, logo development and banner creation for small businesses, private organizations, photographers, artists, weddings, designers and models.

My name is Carl Fields, an independent web site designer specializing in small business web sites and individual portfolios. The focus of Business614 is to provide professional quality web development for small businesses while maintaining affordability.

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It's simple: You'll get a professionally designed website for a fraction of the cost. My designs include custom HTML, dynamic content, ecommerce, content management, flash design, template customizations and script customizations.

Experience the difference of a designer that takes pride in helping people realize their vision. I truly feel that even the smallest of businesses should have an online presence, and that presence should be an impressive one.

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Video Premiere: Lil Jon Featuring 3OH!3, ‘Hey’

Orville Redenbacher, the popcorn guy, once said, “Do one thing and do it better than anyone.”
In Lil Jon‘s case, that’s making party music to raise your pimp chalice to. And his new video, “Hey,” featuring 3OH!3 on backup, is certainly no exception.

In the “Hey” video, Lil Jon and 3OH!3 are seen partying in and around Hollywood while the “Jersey Shore” cast — “Hey” is featured on the “Jersey Shore Soundtrack” — does what they do best: party.

Beer is chugged, the Situation’s abs are, once again, flashed, the beat is beaten and the dawn is broken.

Watch “Hey” now.


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"I'll be your cuddle buddy"

Senior Satow Correspondents Sarah Ngu and Maren Killackey report from this week’s CCSC meeting. They recap a student-run wellness initiative, financial aid communication and reform, the possibility of junior regroup during housing, a vegan composter, and brownstones for general lottery.

Student Wellness Project

Karishma Habbu, the Student Services Rep, and Wilfred Chan, webmaster, unveiled the Student Wellness Project to CCSC. Chan and a number of students met soon after the death of Tina Bu to discuss how to best address long-standing wellness issues on campus. “Wellness is basically you at your best… It is marked by balanced quality of life and a sense of well-being,” Chan told CCSC at Sunday’s meeting, listing all the dimensions of wellness (mental, physical, financial, spiritual, social, etc). He continued, “A lot of students tend to take [wellness] for granted,” accepting it as a reality of life at a tough school like Columbia. But wellness, as the SWP aims to emphasize, should instead be thought of as a fundamental right.

They have already met with Dean Valentini, Dean Shollenberger, Dean Martinez and Dr. Richard Eichler (the director of Columbia Psychological Services) and have been personally recruiting interested students; it’s open for anyone to join in. The Project’s long-term aim is to provide a bridge between students and resources available to them, and further to improve these resources.

A few goals that are currently underway:

  • Student-run wellness website that centralizes resources and encourages discussion
  • Student-led committee that publishes an annual report on Columbia’s community wellness
  • Improved wellness training programs for NSOP and ResLife
  • Peer-to-peer mentoring
  • Puppy therapy!

The SWP meets every Tuesday at 10pm in 522 Kent. Contact Wilfred or Karishma for more information on SWP and how to join in. The Student Wellness Project is involved with the CU Student Forum, a growing gathering of individual students who want to address major issues on campus like lacking student space.

Financial Aid

750 students were unable to register for classes this semester because they had a $1,000 unpaid balance for tuition payment—this is a standard Columbia policy. The Financial Aid office sent multiple e-mails notifying students of the outstanding bill, but most ignored them. A Council member countered, saying that when he tried to rectify the situation he was redirected to three different offices, none of whom really knew what was going on. Some students said that although they received the email they didn’t know it meant that they couldn’t register.

Student Development Affairs and Financial Aid are partnering with the councils to submit the Financial Aid Office to a systematic review process similar to that conducted of CSA last semester. It would include discussions, surveys and focus groups.

Junior Re-group

Council voiced near unanimous support for an option that would allow Juniors to regroup at the end of suite selection and double up to take remaining suites. It remains to be seen if administration will implement such a policy.

The long-awaited composter, destined for installation in the basement of Ruggles, will be up and running sometime next year. Only vegetable waste —no dairy, meat, or oil—can be used. The composter will first be opened up to dining halls, then to campus groups, and after a few weeks, to individuals.

The brownstones that Columbia just acquired will not be opened up for general lottery. Located on 113th St. between Broadway and Riverside, the former nunnery will be re-designed to create singles and doubles for 70 people. KevSho previously stated that these would be Student Affairs confirms that these will be reserved for new Living Learning special interest housing.

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planned expansion for SGA headquarters

Bwog’s shiny new Diana Bureau Chief Renée Kraiem reports on the goings-on at SGA.

  • Reflecting on last week’s contentious meeting about Barnard’s new full-time enrollment policy, one council member explained that she knew of many students who hadn’t recognized the importance of the email announcement from A-Hinks. Barnard inundates students with so many emails, some argued, that it is impossible to distinguish invitations to an open house that bears (pun intended) no relevance to your life from emails presenting major policy changes. SGA President Jessica Blank (we hear the kids are calling her PrezBla!) clarified that, the address from which Dean Hinkson sent her statement, stands for “Dean of the College,” but many students mistook it for spam. Discussion ensued about the way the college administration relates to students, and though the council agreed that the timing of Dean Hinkson’s announcement was too late into the semester, the proper forum for communicating an announcement of this magnitude was debatable. (more…)

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Although the absurdity of the debt ceiling debate may have made you think that politics are completely out of touch with reality, the Budget Control Act has some very real and important implications for Columbia students receiving financial aid.

First the good news: Pell Grants will continue to be funded through 2013, without a reduction in the maximum allowance of $5,550. As we explained when the bill was passed last year, healthcare reform actually included some very important changes to federal student loans. Columbia prides itself on educating the most Pell recipients of any Ivy League or private research university.

And the bad: the money to keep the Pell Grants alive comes from the elimination of federal subsidies for grad students. Furthermore, for all students with federal loans, benefits for timely payments will most likely be cut, and interest rates see increases, starting July 1, 2012.

The Office of Financial Aid’s e-mail explains the changes in detail after the jump. (more…)

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HBO’s new movie Too Big To Fail is up on Broadway between 121st and 122nd.  It’s based on Andrew Sorkin’s book of the same name.  It’s got quite a cast, so go get starstruck!

Photo by EJ

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Sad, lonely sandwich bar

Sad, lonely sandwich bar

If you had a craving for a freshly-made salad or sandwich from Café 212 this weekend, you probably found yourself out of luck. Indeed, in a move that disappoints many, Dining Services recently made the decision to stop its salad and sandwich services on the weekends.

According to Director of Dining Vicki Dunn, the café was selling less than 50 salads and sandwiches on weekends, significantly less than the number sold on weekdays. She says this is the result of students changing their buying habits, especially since the introduction of off-campus Flex and other options. In an effort to reduce operational costs, Dining decided to discontinue its Café 212 salad and sandwich service.

Even so, this does not mean that a trip to Lerner for weekend sustenance will be in vain. Café 212 now has hot lunch and dinner specials on the weekends, and the faithful Café East remains open. Coffee and pastry service still exists, there are new grain salads and microwaveable meals, and there is now an abundance of pre-made sandwiches in eatery. That is, minuscule, expensive pre-made sandwiches that just don’t quite fill the void left by a hand-crafted chicken club sandwich.

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For Long Hair is Given to her Instead of a Testicle

My friend Paul McNabb alerted me to the following article:

Troy W. Martin, “Paul’s Argument from Nature for the Veil in 1 Corinthians 11:13-15: A Testicle Instead of a Head Covering,” Journal of Biblical Literature 123/1 (Spring 2004): 75-84

which may be read here

The author, Troy Martin, is at St. Xavier University here in Chicago. He makes what, on the surface, seems a bizarre argument, but when you actually read his piece it strikes me as rather compelling. I will try to give a brief synopsis of his argument, but I encourage those interested to read the full aritcle.

1 Cor. 11:13-15 reads as follows in the KJV:

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

and as follows in the NIV:

13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Paul’s argument here is quite obscure. How is it that “by nature” women should have long hair and men short? And if women’s long hair is given to them instead of a covering [anti peribolaiou], why do they need to wear another covering over their hair, since their hair is already serving as a covering? Paul’s statement here appears to contradict his earlier argument.

Martin sees the key to resolving this issue in the term peribolaion in v. 15b. The word is traditionally rendered as some type of a head covering, whether a shawl or a veil. And the dominant semantic domain of this word is indeed a garment of some sort. But the semantic range of this word is much broader than that.

A passage from Euripides has Hercules complaining , “After I received my bags of flesh, which are the outward sign of puberty, I received labors about which I shall undertake to say what is necessary.” In this passage, peribolaia is used for “testicles.”

Most of Martin’s article is an examination of ancient medical literature (largely from Hippocrates), in which the hair of women is functionally the same as testicles in men. I can’t do justice to his full discussion of this, but the very short version is this:

Hair is hollow and grows primarily from either male or female reproductive fluid or semen flowing into it and congealing. Since hollow body parts create a vacuum and attract fluid, hair attracts semen. Hair grows most prolifically on the head because semen is produced, or at least stored, in the head. A man’s testicles serve the function of weights; they keep taut the channels of the body allowing semen to flow from his head and be ejected. Conversely, a woman’s long hair serves to draw the semen up to her head, where it congeals into a fetus.

(I found it interesting that according to this ancient medical science women also have semen in their body, just less than men.)

If a man has long hair on his head, it counteracts the need for the semen to come down from his head and ejaculate. But if a woman doesn’t have long hair on her head, it adversely affects her fertility.

Appropriate to her nature, a woman is not given an external testicle, but long hair instead. Since long feminine hair is conceived of as functionally equivalent to a man’s testicles, in effect making such hair genitalia, it is essential that she cover her genitalia, her nakedness–IE her hair–when approaching God in prayer or worship.

We can all agree with the basic principle Paul was espousing, that genitalia should not be exposed in public worship. So the principle still stands. But of course, our understanding of the physiology of sex has changed dramatically since Hippolytus and the ancient medical writers. Since the reason for women covering their heads no longer obtains in our scientific worldview, the injunction is properly dismissed with today.

  1. So, would women cover their hair at all times? Would seem that one would always want to cover their genitalia.

  2. On what basis should we assume that Paul had acquired such “medical” knowledge? Doesn’t this argument depend on Paul being aware of such a medical argument? Or does Martin make the case that such was the general and not professional understanding of testicles and hair?

  3. Kevin Barney says:

    1. No, women wouldn’t necessarily cover their heads at all times. Martin argues that special care was taken for modesty when praying or otherwise worshipping God. (Sort of like building a fence around the Law kind of an idea.) Presumably a distinction was recognized between the hair, which could be seen under normal circumstances, and the pudenda, which would always be kept hidden from the public.

    2. Hippocrates lived in the fifth to fourth centuries B.C., and his writings were still normative in Paul’s time. Paul need not have had detailed technical knowledge akin to that a physician would have to understand the basics of how human physiology “worked.” Most of us are not doctors, but we understand the basics of human sexual physiology.

    What I like about this explanation is that Paul expressly makes this argument according to phusis, which is the source for English “physics” but in Greek more naturally has to do with medical science.

    It’s probably still a strained argument, but at least with this reading the “according to nature” line makes sense, and there is no contradiction anymore within Paul’s argument.

    Even if you don’t like this as an exegesis of Paul, the article is worth a read for its summary of the absolutely fascinating ancient conception of human sexual phyiology. For example, Hippocrates in his work On Glands basically considers a woman’s body one big gland.

  4. Frankly, it doesn’t look like responsible exegesis to me. That’s a real temporal and cultural s-t-r-e-t-c-h for a connotation. Better to stick with the uses of the word closer to home in the rest of the NT/OT and use the logic thereby generated.

    BTW, phusis is also used elsewhere by Paul and in the deutero-canonicals of the LXX. In that case, Paul’s usage will take precedence.

  5. Kevin — a very interesting idea. I like the notion of at least creating a framework in which Paul’s comments make sense. On their own, from our cultural perspective, there is nothing inherent or natural regarding the length of hair of men or women or the need to cover or not cover it while praying. And we’ve formally rejected those things from an LDS perspective, to the degree that we do not require women to cover their heads while worshipping or praying.

    I appreciate you bringing interesting food for thought around for me to think about.

  6. Kevin Barney says:

    If it is helpful to anyone, here is another treatment by Prof. Martin making the same argument, more succinctly, as part of a broader consideration of the rhetoric of Paul’s argument in 1 Cor. 11. I haven’t read this one yet, but thought I would point it out for anyone interested.

  7. Heather O. says:

    “For example, Hippocrates in his work On Glands basically considers a womanâ€™s body one big gland.”

    Gotta tell you boys, at times that doesn’t seem like such a stetch.

  8. Julie M. Smith says:

    I’m not sure why everyone is so quickly dismissing the argument from nature. I think we might be confusing our rhetorical sophistication with Paul’s lack thereof: it seems completely reasonable to me that Paul would think, “Women have naturally long hair; men do not; this is God’s way of telling us something.”

  9. …there is nothing inherent or natural regarding the length of hair of men or women or the need to cover or not cover it while praying.

    Temple anyone?

  10. Kevin Barney says:

    Mogget, on Paul’s use of phusis (good point, BTW, about giving precedence to Paul’s own usage), here’s an interesting one: Romans 2:27:

    hE ek phuseOs akrobustia

    lit. “the uncircumcision [or foreskin] by nature”

    used to describe an uncircumcised man.

    The NEB renders the verse “He may be uncircumcised in his natural state, but by fulfilling the law he will pass judgement on yhou who break it, for all your written code and your circumcision.”

  11. it seems completely reasonable to me that Paul would think, â€œWomen have naturally long hair; men do not; this is Godâ€™s way of telling us something.â€

    That’s always seemed a little odd to me. As far as “nature” is concerned, doesn’t a man’s hair grow just as quickly as a woman’s? Isn’t it just a cultural norm for men to wear it short and women long? How does “nature itself” tell us long hair is disgraceful for men, when it grows just the same?

  12. On what basis should we assume that Paul had acquired such â€œmedicalâ€ knowledge?

    Hanging out with luke all the time, whose profession was medical knowledge.

  13. I found it interesting that according to this ancient medical science women also have semen in their body, just less than men.

    Wasn’t this a rather common ancient view? That women were just men only more “incomplete”? Sort of a view I think Freud may have picked up some ideas for. So women are missing facial hair, penis, testicles and lung (to explain the deep voice). I was listening to Bart Ehrman’s interview on NPR the other day and he made this point (relative to Jesus’ famous statement about women becoming men in the Gospel of Thomas)

    In Aristotilean senses it probably makes sense. Especially at the time of Christ when in the Greek world especially there were degrees of rationality from plants, to animals, to humans to gods.

    Of course it was justified, in part, by the rampant sexism of the time. Further I think it helped excuse horrible treatment of women.

    As for Paul’s knowledge. He appears fairly well versed on the main Roman philosophy of the time. He quotes Stoic philosophers and poets, for instance. He also appears to use Stoic argumentation. So I think the theory that Paul was exposed to at least the broad outlines of views on this topic is reasonable.

  14. Seth R. says:

    You know, whether this is true or not …

    Why on earth would I want to know this?

  15. Kevin, I think this is fascinating. I’m not quite persuaded by Martin’s argument but I don’t dismiss it outrightly either.
    Interesting that Jewish men have to cover their privates in worship (and in regular life depending on your type of Judaism) with an extra shawl because they won’t be able think about God without layers and layers covering their sex. Women also cover their heads (not privates) and generally can’t worship with men in Judaism because the men can only really think about sex with the women around and not God. This is Paul’s tradition too.

    I also think it’s funny that every Mormon representation of Jesus depicts him with hair longer than most Mormon women. What on earth could that mean?

  16. Amri, forget that, here’s the real question: why are women given hair instead of only one testicle. What happened to the other? (Resisting the urge to sing of Hitler’s other ball in the Albert Hall.)

  17. Seth — because of your hairy genitals.

  18. Eww.

  19. Ronan! That question is going to keep me up at night. Damn you!

  20. Aaron Brown says:

    Funny you should bring this up, Kevin, as this was the topic of my Gospel Doctrine lesson last Sunday. I’d like to be able to say my lesson went well, but alas, the prudish class members became very offended, and I was promptly stoned to death.

    Aaron B

  21. “I also think itâ€™s funny that every Mormon representation of Jesus depicts him with hair longer than most Mormon women. What on earth could that mean?”

    Wouldn’t it be funny if Jesus had gone prematurely bald and just had a large head of hair in the resurrection because he finally could?

  22. Clark, I’m certain you’re right. Where else would all that mythology about God knowing all the hairs of your head and that none of them will be lost in the resurrection?
    You’re also saying that Jesus had enormous amounts of semen pre-resurrection and very little afterwards. And I’m not at all sure what that could mean.

  23. Kevin Barney says:

    Aaron, the friend who pointed me in the direction of this article said that he’s been waiting for a good opportunity to raise this theory in GD class, but so far none has presented itself.

    He may be waiting for a long time.

  24. This kind of reminds me of the talk about young men and the soldiers…

  25. Seth R. says:

    Not all of us do all our thinking between our legs thanks.

  26. “I found it interesting that according to this ancient medical science women also have semen in their body”

    I researched this question after reading the phrase “enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.” I found (Jewish Encyclopedia) that it was thought that vaginal discharge was the female equivalent of semen, so Eve was said to have “seed.”

  27. Elisabeth says:

    Interesting! This connection between long hair (which both men and women grow equally as well) and sexual reproduction is based on the social custom of how people wear their hair, not on biology or divine nature. And so is Paul’s disparate treatment of women and men.

  28. Nate T. says:

    Having done this kind of studies in Chinese, I find it intresting he does not reffer to the meaning of the word as it was current in Paul’s time, but instead dives back into ancient Greek to explain a Hebrew paratice. It seems flawed to me.

  29. TrailerTrash says:

    The argument doesn’t quite make sense to me. If hair = genitalia, then why don’t men have to cover thier hair?

    The medical literature is about fertility. I am much more persauded that the veil for women is a prophylactic against the lust of angels (i.e. Gen 6) as they commune with God in prayer and prophesy. Tertullian gives this interpretation of the text as well. The warning about the angels in 1 Cor 11:10 seems to support this reading, but doesn’t fit at all with the question about fertility.

    I don’t see how this can be related to Paul’s concern here with how one should pray. What am I missing?

  30. Kevin Barney says:

    Great comments so far.

    Ok, let’s review the bidding, first by reviewing the positive features of the argument, then those that don’t work so well.

    On the plus side:

    – The argument works better with phusis “nature” than most other arguments. I claimed too much when I equated this with medical science, but as Paul uses the term it does seem to refer to something physical within a body or being. We recognize short hair on men and long hair on women as cultural, not something imposed by nature itself.

    – The argument gives full meaning to the preposition anti governing the genitive peribolaiou, which would have the connotation of “instead of, in the place of, in lieu of.” Virtually all English tranlsations fudge this. The concept is one of equivalency or exchange; a woman’s hair is given to her in lieu of a peribolaion.

    – The argument avoids the contradiction of requiring a woman to wear a covering, but saying that her hair itself already serves as a covering.

    – The ancient medical literature seems to support the argument. (This is actually part of a broader study to bring to bear ancient medical science on scriptural exegesis.)

    – The ancient medical notion of women as imperfect or lesser men works well with the rest of Paul’s argument.

    On the minus side:

    – I think ascribing the meaning “testicle” to peribolaion is pretty problematic. That word lit. means “that which is thrown around,” and its basic meaning is some sort of a “covering.” Euripides does indeed use the word to mean “encasements of flesh”; IE euphemistic for “testicles” [and metaphoric for “youth, manhood”]. But as several have pointed out, that usage derives from Attic. The word is not at all common, but I cannot find a comparable usage in any other Koine text. So query, if this is what Paul meant, would a first century reader have understood him?

    – Ronan has a point, in that the plural would be a more natural usage than the singular.

    – As J. and others point out, if the argument is taken to its logical conclusion, women should never show their hair, nor should men.

    – Trailer Trash raises an interesting question about meshing this argument with v. 10.

    In sum, I think the strength of the argument is the medical science, and the weakness is the lexical connection of peribolaion to testicle.

    After hashing this out, I’m inclined to be sceptical. If this is what Paul intended, then it was a strained attempt by Paul to bring the science of his day to bear on the argument he really was trying to make, which was grounded in the culture. Contradictions remain, but it may be folly to assume that the contradictions in Paul’s argument were not there all along.

  31. Kevin Barney says:

    Actually, on Ronan’s point I should have said “dual” rather than “plural.”

  32. Lynn Svedin says:

    I read this article several years ago and really enjoyed it. I have used it several times in discussions with people who claim the Bible is easy to read and understand. Apparently, after reading this article, I have re-learnt that one cannot understand scripture fully until one understands the culture the scripture is written in.

  33. Kevin Barney says:

    I’m glad you found this, Lynn, and commented. Thanks.

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