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Free Advertising: Microsoft $200, Google $50, LookSmart $300, & Ask $50

Tis the season for online advertisers to attract new customers. If you have a website, blog, etc. and are looking for the perfect time to build exposure while freeloading, then these offers are for you. This is likely to be the best compilation of free offers available for some time; if interested, make your move now, as most these offers expire within a month. Here are the details and links for each company and offer:

Go to the $200 free offer page to get started with Microsoft AdCenter and use promo code DM-2-1106 (also listed on site) before January 15, 2007. This $200 of free advertising requires a charge of $5 (so I lied, that makes it actually $195 of free advertising).

Click here to sign up for Google AdWords and take advantage of their Christmas season $50 advertising coupon. No expiration date seems to be listed for this one (but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one).

Follow this link to sign up for LookSmart and make sure to use promo code SESCHQ4 at check-out for your $300 credit. This offer is good for first time LookSmart advertisers only and your daily budget must be set to $10 or higher, meaning you can only freeload for a maximum of 30 days. Also, this offer expires December 25, 2006.

Go to this sign up page and enter promo code SESCHI06 during the check-out process.

So there you have it, $600 of free advertising to get you started with whatever online presence you might have. Thanks to ProBlogger and Paul Allen.

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  • Bob Caswell

    I have signed up successfully using all of these offers and am willing to answer any questions.

  • Slimpoop

    They all require credit card info though, I expect this, but I don’t want to enter it in case they have some sort of contract -where you get $50 dollars free, but you are committed to advertising with them for x months/years.

  • Randy Charles Morin

    I tried the Microsoft promotion and got error after error and gave up.

  • Kevin

    For the unintiated, let me warn you: Microsoft AdCenter is *terrible*. Save yourself the heartache. It’s not worth it for $1,000 in free clicks.

    Stupid, tiny iframes; mis-sized columns; poorly sized data-entry fields, *useless* slow-loading charts, endless loops of error pages that go no where, help pages that are completely or all-but blank…. I could go on, but why?

    It’s a M-E-S-S. (Who built this crap anyway?)

    Need to exclude a bunch of words? (Want to bid on ‘English language lessons’ perhaps but not ‘free English language lessons’, and need to exclude a couple of others?) The box you enter those phrases in is LITERALLY no bigger than the ”

    A text field that small is a barrel-of-monkey’s of fun to go scrolling back and forth in to see what you’ve entered and haven’t. Then you’ll hit a string limit somewhere, and the form won’t submit. You won’t get a useful error; it… just… doesn’t… work… anymore. (Did I enter something wrong? Or is the system broken? Let me… ummm… scroll… back… and try finding it.)

    It is a DISASTER. It’s so bad, I would guess that two entry-level developers whipped it out one weekend as a proof-of-concept, and it was mistakenly pushed live to the world as if it were an actual working production system.

    I had *such, such* high hopes from Microsoft. I’d hoped that they’d actually throw some talent at the project in the hopes of someone FINALLY locking horns with Google. I mean I REAAAAALLY *wanted* to see MS make a great contender.

    Pfft. Was I wrong. :-(

    Microsoft AdCenter is laughable… just laughable!! And I have *tried* to suffer through the inexcusable design flaws just to push through and get the traffic. No more. I’m done with it. Back to being stuck with Google and Yahoo.

    Thank goodness Google gets it and has a solid UI; and at least Yahoo!’s isn’t horrible.

    I am *not* exaggerating: MS could have done better outsourcing it to a couple of teams of meat cutters with zero HTML experience. At least then we’d expect it to be bad and be pleased when it wasn’t. Intead it’s just piles of fresh, heaping steaming dung. And those are the good parts.

  • Son Nguyen

    Tried to pay for but they kept saying they have problem processing the card!

  • Eric Martindale

    Yeah, I signed up for Microsoft successfully, after a couple handfuls of errors. I guess I just had to wait it out. Ask wouldn’t accept my credit card, for some reason. But, it’s all good, I’m now $500 worth of advertising paid for $5. Thanks, good find.

  • Anonymous

    You’re my hero! I was about to plop down some money to start advertising on google in the next few minutes and you saved me! <3<3<3 What do you want for Christmas! =)

  • Clyde Fernandes

    Will be using this on my blog and will also be linking to yours cheers i had the microsoft one but this is rocking :)

  • Bob Caswell

    Glad to hear this is helpful for some… Just to clarify, yes, you do need a credit card for these offers and some of them (like Ask and LookSmart) will auto-renew once your free amount is used up. So that means that you need to watch your advertising campaign closely and cancel the service before you use up your free amount (unless, of course, you like it and want to actually pay; that’s what these companies are hoping).

    It’s all still free, but you will be charged if you sign up and then forget about it. And thanks to all who are linking here!

  • bob

    I have not received the money in my microsoft account. How long does it take to get?

  • bob

    Actually nevermind, I was looking in the wrong spot. The 200 is in my account :)

  • Nate

    Hey great post I will definitely use this money to help get some exposure to my site (

  • Azhar

    I was just wondering how they plan on making money from this. See trackback entry from … Thanks if you could answer that.

  • Bob Caswell

    Inevitably some customers will forget to cancel before their credit card is charged. A less cynical answer to how these companies might make money: maybe, just maybe, someone who signs up for a free offer will actually like it and *choose* to keep using it (gasp!).

    It’s your standard high upfront investment for longterm returns (if it works).

  • Arnel

    I need to promote more online and I think these are worth trying since it is free anyway. Thanks for the great article.

  • Jorge

    Thanks for this tip. I read somewhere that BidVertiser is offering $25 in free clicks. I don’t like BidVertiser but I leave here this information in case some of your readers are interested.

  • John Hardy

    I thkn I gave you my web address instead of my mailing address for the Google coupon. So please send the Google coupon to or

  • Chris

    Tsk…Looksmart same deal. Credit Card failure (4 different card, all are valid) , and customer service is closed. Not worth the bother.

  • Anonymous

    Not having much luck so far. For some reason isn’t running our ad even though it is setup and “on”. I’ve set the CPC very high but nothing has happened. On google .. they haven’t mailed me back yet. I’ve never heard of looksmart and they are pretty pathetic so I won’t bother there. The MSN is pretty pathetic but I’m desparate so I’ll try them. I’ve read that google no longer offers the $50 coupon and won’t respond =( I found another google link though:
    Apparently you sign up and they give you $50 instantly? Someone said they used the link and they never got credit for it.
    Secondly, I found a code for yahoo!
    Google REALLY doesn’t want to give free credit it seems =P

  • Anonymous

    The google link I posted doesn’t work, I guess I’ll try emailing their customer service and seeing if they will credit me.

  • Money Making Forum

    Pity you have to be in the US/UK to take part in some of the offers i.e. Microsoft :(

  • Kevin

    Sooo….none of these work?

  • Bob Caswell

    Kevin (and others interested),

    All of these do work. Some talk about issues they’ve had with credit cards while others are disappointed that some offers only work in the US/UK.

    But I have personally used every single one of these offers successfully, as have others…

  • aaron

    I can’t get the Google one to work which is the only one I’m really interested in. Clicked the link, signed up with a new account, and my balance is 0.

  • Kaolin Fire

    Awesome stuff! I just got $200 for M$ and $100 for Google (and … some amount for CitySearch) for having a 1and1 hosted server, and I was telling some friends about that and they pointed me here. Now I’ve got Looksmart and Ask set up, and I’m eager to see how they work out.

    One piece of odd/interestingness — As part of cc validation, since the order came out to $0, it looks like ask jeeves and looksmart … each _gave_ me a $1. Status is still pending, but would be nifty if it’s true.

    Also funny is the fact that LookSmart and Ask are using the same software for their ad management, with just minor css tweaks between them (and different settings selected–looksmart lets you have really long titles and descriptions).

    Greatest Uncommon Denominator Magazine
    — 200 pages of literary + genre fiction, poetry, art, and more. [[ $3.50 PDF, $10.00 Print ]]

  • Kaolin Fire

    And hey, thanks for that Yahoo link in the comments (though I’m still waiting on their $50… but I’m still just waiting on their introductory email after creating the account, too, so maybe they’re slow).

    Speaking of, I’m kind of slow, too. I misread my statement. Those $1 credits were _not_ credits, but they weren’t charges, either. Just Auths, and I compared them with a “refund” when trying to figure out which way the negative was going. A friend tells me I’m just tired/overworked as opposed to a complete dork.

    Greatest Uncommon Denominator Magazine — 200 pages of literary + genre fiction, poetry, art, and more. [[ $3.50 PDF, $10.00 Print ]]

  • Son Nguyen

    We use the promotional coupon to try LookSmart but have found it quite ineffective when comparing to other PPC engines, especially Google’s AdWords.

  • Shareware

    When i tried to use the Microsoft promo is said

    This particular Promotional Code has already been redeemed.

  • MySpace Marketing

    Wooo, thank you so much! I knew about the Google Voucher [Sign up via Lycos Partnershop - on going for over a year now], but the others… Gems! :)

  • Freeware

    WARNING!!!! Look smart just charge my credit card 300 bucks and i only had the account open a week my balance wasnt low

  • merv

    I signed up for the free $300 on Looksmart but did not activate the account before the 25th so they took away my $300 credit. I called to complain and all they could do was give me a new coupon code for $150 off of $300 here is the code. I think it expires on the 7th of next month or sometime soon. Enjoy

    looksmart code for 150$ off of $300 code:0307wp150

  • Casey Carpenter

    What no Overture bonus, with Panama rolling out I would expect something.

  • Eric

    I also get an error for the Microsoft code, and FYI the ASK code for $600 only shows up as a $50 credit.

  • YTBTravelWorldWide

    Interestingly enough I am also getting errors. I think I see a bit of a trend here.

    YTB Travel Presentation
    YTB Travel Booking

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    now this can’t user
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Wednesday, March 30, 2016

On 26 March 2016, we watched this female White-breasted Nuthatch (Sitta carolinensis) approach a cavity on the underside of a large oak branch.

At first we thought she might be interested in using it as a nest site.  But when she backed out with a mouthful of material, we realized that she was gathering nesting material from this cavity:

I don't know if there was a former nest in the cavity, or if softer materials had simply collected there and she was gathering them to use at a new site.  Before this, I hadn't considered what nuthatches use to make their nests, so it was intriguing behavior to watch.

Tuesday, March 29, 2016

The little bear with the beautiful nose

While Eric and I were doing a beach survey tonight, we looked up from searching for small invertebrates near our feet to see a mammal in the distance moving towards the surf:

For a while, it swam close to shore:

And then it re-emerged onto the beach.  [I should mention that all of these pictures are heavily cropped; we watched respectfully from a distance.]

We were both excited and worried to see a young fur seal.  Although The Marine Mammal Center has handled a record number of stranded fur seals this year, I've only seen them at sea, and Eric had never seen one before.  Fur seals are pelagic, spending most of their life offshore.  Seeing one on the beach could mean that the animal wasn't healthy (although this one appeared energetic).

This fur seal started to groom with its very long hind flippers:

The whole time we were there it groomed various parts of its body with its hind flippers it was amazing to see how flexible it was!

I don't have experience identifying Northern Fur Seals and Guadalupe Fur Seals.  I've tried reading about them, and my best guess for this individual is a Northern Fur Seal (Callorhinus ursinus).

I'm basing the identification on the short snout and rounded forehead...long ears...extremely long hind flippers...and a lack of fur past the wrist on the upper side of the front flippers.  That said, if you have more experience and can help confirm or correct this identification, please let me know.

You might have noticed that this fur seal is tagged look for the orange tag on the front right flipper in the last picture.  I'm not sure if this means it was tagged at a breeding colony, or if it's a rehabilitated animal that was released.  Perhaps someone familiar with fur seal tags could provide additional information.

P.S.  Callorhinus means "beautiful nose" and ursinus means "bear-like," hence the name of this post.

ADDENDUM (30 March 2016):  A quick update:  Several people have responded that they agree with the identification as a Northern Fur Seal.

And, TMMC has some information about tagging on their websiteThey mention the sources of different tag colors:

Green -- A
ño Nuevo Island
Pink -- Farallon Islands
Red -- San Miguel Island
Orange -- rehabilitation centers

I also learned that a tag on the right flipper indicates a female (vs. on the left for a male).  So this female Northern Fur Seal was released from a rehabilitation center.  Thanks everyone for the useful information!

Monday, March 28, 2016

Gale warning

It's often windy in Bodega Bay, but today it was really windy.  I find it hard to capture such strong winds in a picture it would be better if you could be here, trying to stand upright against 45 mph gusts.

Looking offshore from Bodega Head on 28 March 2016.  Northwest winds were blowing at 30 mph with 45 mph gusts.  West swell was ~10.5 feet.  Strong winds during the last week have dropped the water temperature down to ~10°C (50°F), but I wouldn't be surprised if it starts creeping up again once the winds let up later this week.

Sunday, March 27, 2016

Easter seal

Harbor Seal (Phoca vitulina), photographed off Bodega Head on Easter Sunday, 27 March 2016

Saturday, March 26, 2016

Purplish pink

Blue Dicks (Dichelostemma capitatum) in Petaluma, CA, on 26 March 2016

Friday, March 25, 2016

Glossed with purplish blue

Common Raven (Corvus corvax), 25 March 2016

I believe this is the female of a pair.  I love the purplish iridescent sheen of her feathers.  (The Birds of North America account describes it as "glossed with purple to purplish blue.")

Thursday, March 24, 2016

Beach Knotweed (Polygonum paronychia), a native subshrub in the Bodega Dunes, in bloom on 24 March 2016

Wednesday, March 23, 2016

Dusky Turban

Close-up of a Dusky Turban Snail shell (Tegula pulligo).  This shell is not entire; it has a broken spire (otherwise it would be higher!).  ;)

It was washed ashore on Bodega Head and photographed 23 March 2016.

P.S.  This is one of three species of turban snails on Bodega Head.  The others include Black Turban Snail (Tegula funebralis) and Brown Turban Snail (Tegula brunnea).

Tuesday, March 22, 2016

Did you notice that the wave in the foreground was headed offshore, away from the beach?  The waves were reflecting strongly off the beach this evening.  It made for pretty intense wave action as the crests from the incoming and outgoing waves collided.

When incoming and outgoing waves meet, the collision is called interference.  When the crests combine, it is called "constructive interference" and the result can be a sudden, explosive increase in wave height.  Some day I'll get a better picture of it, but here's one example:

Monday, March 21, 2016

Dramatic clouds over Bodega Bay at the end of the day (21 March 2016).  Looks like we received ~0.5 inch of rain during the past 24 hours.  That brings the total to ~27 inches since October 1st about 87% of average for the hydrological year (October-September).

Sunday, March 20, 2016

A mystery close-up  — Can you guess what animal it is?

Here's a view from the side:

And one of the entire shell:

Purple-ringed Top Snail, or Jeweled Top Snail (Calliostoma annulatum)

Photographed on 16 February 2016.  Note that "annulatum" comes from "annulus" or "ring".

Saturday, March 19, 2016

Key features

Hooded Keyhole Limpet (Cranopsis cucullata, formerly Puncturella cucullata)

Photographed on 12 March 2016.  This species is more common subtidally I've only seen a handful washed up on the beach in this area.

The "keyhole" is a normal feature, i.e., this is *not* a broken shell.  The hole, or slit, is located just in front of the apex (peak) of the shell.  The position and shape of the keyhole, along with the strong ribs and the dentate margin, are useful identification features.

P.S.  The species name, "cucullata," means "hooded" — sometimes the apex of the shell leans backward (like a hood).  [I should have taken a picture from the side; I'll try to add one.]  This expands the list of "hooded species" with cucullata in their scientific name — see the post from 18 June 2015.

Thursday, March 17, 2016

Pot of gold?

Evening Poppy (Hesperomecon linearis)

Maybe I should have shown this picture yesterday for St. Patrick's Day?

From the post about poppies on Bodega Head on 22 March 2012: Formerly known as Meconella linearis.  The common name has not been standardized.  Sometimes referred to as Popcorn Poppy or Carnival Poppy.  Hespero = evening or west, and mecon = poppy, hence the name above.  Of the six petals, the inner three are mostly white and the outer three are mostly yellow.  This is the rarest of the poppies on Bodega Head and is only found at a few sites in older, remnant stabilized dunes.  It's also rare in Sonoma County, with perhaps just one or two other known locations.

Wednesday, March 16, 2016

Big foot captured on video

Remember the Purple Sea Snail (Janthina umbilicata) I've shown several times during the past couple of months?

During certain conditions from late January-present, we've been finding quite a few of them washed up on the beach.  On 12 March 2016, we were walking along the beach counting them, when we noticed one snail that looked similar but slightly different.

It was larger, paler, more compressed (flattened from top-to-bottom), with a shorter spire (the first few whorls), and it had a more substantial float.  The striations (or lines) on the shell were also different — rounded all the way around, rather than angled.

Here's the same snail from below.  Although it's completely covered with sand grains, look for the float emerging from the shell:

It has been interesting enough to see one species of Janthina this year...and here was a second!  Although we need to confirm the identification with an expert, my best guess right now is that this is Janthina janthina.

We didn't know if the snail was alive, and because this species is so rare in this area, we decided to bring it back to the lab for documentation.

The snail floated in sea water, so we left it in a tank overnight.  When I arrived the next day, this is what I saw:

The snail was alive and in about 12 hours it had created an impressive float made of very large bubbles.

Here's a view from the side in a small aquarium:

The online record is incomplete, but in a quick search we could only find one entry for Janthina janthina in Northern California from 1935Its occurrence here this year is likely related to the current El Niño event.  We took some additional documentary photographs and video (see below).

One thing we noticed right away was how different the tentacles are between the two species.  Although they both have forked tentacles, Janthina janthina's tentacles are much more rounded.  They made us think of velvety deer antlers, or mittens (with thumbs)!

The next photo shows a close-up of the snail, emerging from its shell, with its broad foot gliding over its bubble raft.  Look for the tentacles on either side of the proboscis (left side of the photo they almost look like lobster claws).

Eric was very fortunate to capture some nice footage of Janthina janthina working on its float.  In the video clip below, watch for:

The front of the foot expanding (tremendously!), then breaking the surface to grab a bubble of air and wrap it in mucus secreted by the foot.  (If you watch closely, you can even see the bubble below the foot as the snail attaches it to the float.)

The snail's large black foot gliding over the float (applying another layer of mucus?)

A glimpse of the extended proboscis with sharp radular teeth exposed at the tip.

Amazing, right?  Not many people get to see these pelagic snails in action, so we hope this helps you visualize and wonder about their lives at sea.

P.S.  If you want to review the photos and video of the first species, Janthina umbilicata, click here.

Tuesday, March 15, 2016

Purplish Copper (Lycaena helloides), Bodega Dunes, 15 March 2016

Remarkably, this is the first time I've observed Purplish Coppers in the Bodega Dunes, even after 12 years of looking (at least casually, and sometimes seriously) for butterflies.

I counted several individuals today.  A male is shown above.  The next pictures are two different views of a female — first from above, and then from below.

Have I missed this species in previous years?  It's a pretty distinctive butterfly, so that's a little hard to believe.

Or — What's different about this year?  Or last year (e.g., one possibility is that adults laid eggs last year, and then a new generation emerged locally this year)?

Have you seen or do you know of other sightings of Purplish Copper on Bodega Head or in the Bodega Dunes?  Are they irregular here?  Or have I really just been missing them all of these years?

If you're looking locally — Acmon Blues (Plebejus acmon) are the most common lycaenid (blue or copper) on Bodega Head.  With a quick view, they might look somewhat similar to Purplish Coppers.  But they're smaller, bluer above, grayer below, with more numerous and heavier spots below, and note the more substantial orange marginal "lunules" on the underwing, which can look like a band of orange near the edges of the wings:

[If you were wondering, all of these butterflies were nectaring on Coastal Goldfields (Lasthenia minor).]

Art Shapiro (see web page here) says that Purplish Coppers used to be more common along the coast, and that they used to emerge early in the season (e.g., in March, similar to the ones I saw today).  Now it's rare to see them before June.  Were today's sightings a hint of how things used to be?

P.S.  It appears that the early date for Purplish Copper in California is 4 March.

Sunday, March 13, 2016

Rainbows between showers

A vivid rainbow between rain showers on 11 March 2016:

And there have been rainbow swirls in foam bubbles during the past few days.  Find your favorite!  [Click on the image for a larger version.]

Saturday, March 12, 2016

Let's Move!

Remember last night's mystery anemones (see post from 11 March 2016)?

Well, we have a clue to their origin.

Jim Carlton astutely inquired about whether there were any markings on the cap.

Eric searched more thoroughly today, and found a faded word on the top of the black cap:

When Eric searched for the word "KURE" on the Internet, he discovered that Kure is a port town in Japan (near Hiroshima).

And then he started searching for KURE products.  Here's what he found:

Lots of black plastic caps!  KURE is a company that makes cleaning products and lubricants see their website here. (Note that their slogan is, "Let's Move!"  It appears that the mystery anemones took their slogan literally!).

The fact that the anemones were growing in a KURE product cap makes us think that they might have originated in Japan rather than the Indo-Pacific.  We'll continue to follow up on the identity of the mystery anemones.

Friday, March 11, 2016

The incredible journey

Eric and I have been continuing our surveys for unusual marine invertebrates appearing during this year's El Niño conditions.  Last Saturday, it was very stormy and rainy, and we were wondering whether we should go out — but we put on our boots and rain gear and headed for Salmon Creek Beach.

When the waves are really big, sometimes they "clean" the beach, i.e., there's not much to find.  Here's what the beach looked like on 5 March 2016:

We had walked for a while without seeing much, and then Eric noticed a large black plastic cap that had recently washed up.  He looked inside, and wondered about some small anemones on the inside edge of the cap.  We couldn't immediately recall seeing anemones on floating debris, so Eric was curious about their identity.  Below is a picture of the cap and the anemones as we found them:

We couldn't identify the anemones in the field, so we brought them back to the lab for a closer look.  The anemones opened up, expanding their tentacles.  There were over 20 anemones in the cap!

This was our first view under the microscope:

 And a close-up of the tentacles:

The white markings and cross-bands on the tentacles reminded us of Anthopleura artemisia, but overall the anemones didn't look quite right for that species.

We knew something was unusual when we saw the sides of the column.  We weren't familiar with a local anemone with red "punctations" or spots like this:

Along with the red spots, note the short white stripes at the base of the column:

Without a guide to anemones elsewhere in the world, we started looking around online, and we also sent a few pictures to Jim Carlton.

Here's the exciting part: Jim suggested the possibility of Anthopleura buddemeieri, a species from the Indo-Pacific (e.g., Papua New Guinea)!  Separately, we found pictures of an anemone identified online as Anthopleura asiatica, a species from Japan.  (Could this be debris from the tsunami of 11 March 2011?)  Both of these species have distinctive red spots on the column.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the taxonomy of A. asiatica is confusing, so identifying these anemones might be challenging.  But we're working on it!  And either way, this is a very unusual species to find in Northern California.  We are not aware of any records of these western Pacific anemones finding their way to North America.  Imagine the possible routes across the Pacific Ocean.  For example, can you visualize a small black cap crossing from the tropical Western Pacific to Baja and then drifting north along the West Coast of the United States until it washed up in Bodega Bay (over 10,000 km/6,000 miles)?!

Here's another thing to wonder about:

At least one of the anemones was undergoing fission splitting into two genetically identical individuals.  Is it possible that all of the anemones in this cap are related, i.e., that they started out as one individual and that they continually divided during their long journey across the Pacific?

I'll provide an update if we learn anything more.  And for now, enjoy another close-up:

P.S.  Proof that it's always worth going for a walk, even in the rain!

ADDENDUM (12 March 2016) Eric did a careful count of the anemones.  It turns out that there were 39 (!) anemones on the cap.  The average size was ~7-8 mm across.

Also, for another clue about the origin of these anemones, read the post from 12 March 2016.

Thursday, March 10, 2016

A tale of two...

These large barnacles were growing on the bottom of an oceanographic buoy.  It was a nice comparison of two local species.

Did you notice the different colors of the opercular membranes that are visible on the inside of the plates?

The right-hand barnacle, with a turquoise and red-orange membrane, is Megabalanus californicus.  The left-hand barnacle, with a yellow-orange membrane, is Balanus nubilus.  [Fun fact: Balanus nubilus was first described by Charles Darwin in 1854.]

Megabalanus is a more southern species, but it has become more common in this area during the past couple of warm-water years.

Wednesday, March 9, 2016

Rafting out at sea

I've been wanting to see a "rafting crab" or a "flotsam crab" (Planes spp.) for a long time.  These crabs are members of the pelagic invertebrate community, living offshore on floating objects.  I didn't know that when I finally saw one that I would be so taken with them.

Here's a series of pictures to introduce this wonderful crab.  I found this one on a small piece of driftwood washed up on the beach.  I believe this is Planes major (formerly Planes cyaneus).

Flotsam crabs are relatively small the length of this individual's carapace was less than 1 cm:

These crabs are good swimmers.  Their legs are specialized for swimming — long setae ("natatory hairs") on their legs increase surface area for propulsion:

Flotsam crabs are often brown, but they can also be blue (and given time, they can change color).  The color is dependent on chromatophores.  In this picture, some of the chromatophores are sparkling blue:

Not only were the chromatophores spectacular, but check out the colors in their compound eyes!

Flotsam crabs live on floating objects and therefore are often associated with other organisms such as pelagic gooseneck barnacles (Lepas spp.).  [Although large barnacles may provide shelter, small barnacles might be eaten by the crab.]:

Flotsam crabs are apparently unafraid of people (they probably don't encounter that many in their typical open ocean habitat).  I'd read that they would do this, and here's an example of one crawling off its float and onto my thumb:

Can you imagine what it would be like for a flotsam crab to be holding on to a piece of driftwood, or a glass float, or a piece of kelp, floating far offshore in stormy seas?
The status of flotsam crabs is somewhat of a mystery in Northern California.  They're not reported that often, but perhaps they're being overlooked?  If you see driftwood (or other floating objects) washing up on the beach, especially with pelagic barnacles (a clue that it's been at sea for a while), keep an eye out for these charismatic crabs!

P.S.  If I can get some footage of this crab swimming, I'll try to add a video clip, too.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2017

Guess who?

Time for a close-up mystery photo!

Do you have ideas about what type of organism this is?

[I'll reveal the answer tomorrow night.]

Tim said...

we have just been going through zooplankton samples in the lab. A prawn zoea? That is as specific as I can guess, but the can all look alike! although the eyes look unusual. I like the rear facing spines on the carapace whatever it is.

Jackie Sones said...

Hi, Tim!

Good guess! It is in fact a zoea...but not of a prawn, as I think you knew.

And for those of you who don't know what a "zoea" is, it's the free-swimming larval stage of decapod crustaceans (crabs, lobsters, and shrimp).

I'll reveal which species this is later tonight!

:) Jackie

Anonymous said...

Pass out the cigars! Pelagic red crab!?!?!?!
KB :)

Jackie Sones said...

Hi, KB!

Not sure if I should reveal the answer before tonight's post...but perhaps I should! You win! It is a Pelagic Red Crab zoea!

I'll show some more pictures tonight. They're pretty darn cute. And it's fun to see what they look like/how they swim/etc. There aren't many photos/videos of live Pelagic Red Crab zoeae, so we hope to change that tonight.

:) Jackie


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Deciduous Flowering

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text:
Tuesday, August 16, 2011

How to Love an American Man by Krissy Gasbarre

How to Love an American Man by Kristine Gasbarre
Published by Harper Collins ISBN 978-0-06-199739-6
Trade paperback, $14.99

A few weeks ago, I was invited to a luncheon celebrating the upcoming release of Krissy Gasbarre's novel, How to Love an American Man- A True Story.

The author is a bright and bubbly lady whose smile lit up the upstairs room at Fresco by Scotto, where the luncheon was held. Amy Bendell, the editor at Harper Collins who help shepherd this beautiful book, and Lisa Sharkey, Senior Vice President Creative Marketing Development at Harper, both said wonderful things about Gasbarre and her book, and both were drawn to the grandmother element of the story.

Gasbarre moved back home to DuBois, Pennsylvania following the death of her beloved grandfather, the head of her loving family. She was a little lost, professionally and personally. The man she loved moved to Bahrain, and she was losing interest in her job as a nanny in Italy.

When Grandpa dies, he left behind a bereft wife. Krissy always admired her grandparents' marriage, and now she had the opportunity to spend time with Grandma and ask her how she and Grandpa made their marriage work. Could Grandma give her advice that she could use?

One thing that Grandma tells her is "if you are really concerned with finding somebody to love then I am telling you that you have to stop focusing on yourself." When Krissy can't believe that her grandma is telling her to put aside her needs for a man, Grandma responds "if you love someone, that's what you do. It comes naturally."

Grandma goes on,
"A friend, Krissy. A man needs someone who supports his work. Someone who hugs him and means it when he walks in the door at night.  You want to be with a really good man? You have to have courage. And patience. Lots of patience."

Grandma's advice borne of years of practice is compelling. Her husband was a successful, charismatic, hardworking, business owner, and it wasn't always easy being married to him. Krissy listened to her grandma's advice and stories and tried to process it. Is this advice still relevant in today's world?

Krissy was set-up on a date with a highly eligible oral and facial surgeon, Chris. Chris was handsome, smart and building his practice. Their first date did not go well, and Krissy next ended up dating Tucker, a college student six years her junior.

Her relationship with Tucker had its ups and downs, and after a disastrous weekend fishing trip that Gasbarre describes in brutally honest detail, ends badly. I can't imagine there is a woman out there who can't relate to that section of the book.

Gasbarre is also honest about her grandma. She is a bit of prickly woman, and I'm glad that Gasbarre resisted the temptation to portray her grandma as a sainted lady. She often tried the patience of her children and Krissy.

The life of a widow is tough, and Gasbarre does a masterful job in her description of it. I really felt the ache of Grandma's loneliness, and it is a feeling that many of us who have long, happy marriages will sadly have to face at some point in our lives. The scenes where Krissy and her grandma are the only single ladies in a group of marrieds at parties and family gatherings touches on the loneliness that people can feel lost in a crowd.

Gasbarre's writing is wonderful and heartfelt; she chooses the perfect phrase and words, and she balances Grandma's life and advice with her own journey to find her place in the world. The titles of the chapters are Grandma's words of advice- "Know When To Say I Love You" "Support His Work" "Get Your Own Life Settled".

If I have any criticism, it is that Gasbarre compares her feelings about her troubled relationships with her grandma's loneliness at losing her husband. I don't think you can compare the loss of a husband of sixty years with the loss of relationship of a few months; there is no comparison. Someday she will realize that.

How to Love an American Man has been compared to Eat, Pray, Love, but I find this to be a stronger book. Telling Grandma's story alongside Krissy's search for a loving relationship really touched my heart, and makes it less self-centered, as has been the (justified) knock against Eat, Pray, Love.

This book will appeal to many women- those who have love and lost, as well as those looking for lasting love.
rating 4 of 5 stars

  1. I came across your review from Amazon late last night (just randomly surfing for a read) and found myself reading this review from your blog. I clicked on your name and it linked me here... Long story short, your review caught my attention and I just finished reading this book digitally today. I indeed loved this book. Her descriptions of all things Pennsylvania took me back to my childhood home. I am a guy. Yes, I said it. I'm a very normal, football loving guy. And I am not ashamed to admit, that this guy, misses his grandparents just a little more today.

  2. I'm so glad that you enjoyed Krissy's book, and this has to be the sweetest comment I've ever gotten on my blog.


text:
January 6, 2017

Full House Reading Challeng 2017

Full House Reading Challenge 2017 badge

This is my own tracking for the Full House Reading challenge that I host.
Full House Reading Challenge 2017
1. Book from Childhood.   Anne of Green Gables.  L.M. Montgomery
2. Size word in title    Pretty Little World   Elizabeth LeBan  Melissa DePino
3. UK/European Author    Meet Me at Beachcomber Bay   Jill Mansell
4. US/Canadian Author    Bridge of Scarlet Leaves     Kristina McMorris
5. Published 2017  Wild Horse Springs    Jodi Thomas
6. Australian/NZ Author   Who's Afraid Too? Maria Lewis.

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Friday, July 24, 2009

Word Count

I swear I must get a question a week relating to word count. It’s an endless discussion here, on the blogs of other agents and on writing loops and boards, so while I’ve posted on this before I’m going to try to make this the complete guide to word count post, everything you need to know. Of course I know that’s never going to happen.

First and foremost, what length should your book be? My answer is when in doubt think 80,000 words, give or take. I don’t think that you can ever go wrong with 80,000 words whether you’re writing mystery, romance, fantasy, literary fiction, or nonfiction. Okay, sure, it’s never going to work for children’s books or poetry, but since I don’t rep those it doesn’t matter (to me anyway). In fact, I think 80,000 words even works for YA. Sure, with some of these genres you’re going to be on the long end and with others the short end, but again this is the “when in doubt word count.” 80,000 words is pretty much safe everywhere.

What about range, I’ll be asked. Can you give us a range or can you be genre specific? I suppose I can, to the best of my abilities.

Mystery: I think that for mysteries you often have the freedom of writing a book that’s a little shorter. In the case of mysteries 70,000 to 90,000 words will likely work for you.

Romance: 80,000 to 100,000, and no, I’m not counting category. If you’re writing category you’ll need to follow the very specific word count requirements of that line.

Fantasy or SF: Here you can go a little bit longer. Some publishers will accept books in the 80,000 to 125,000 range.

YA: 50,000 to 75,000, and yes, this is an area that can get really fudgy (I made that up), but again, in the 80,000 range is good. **I corrected these numbers after feedback from others (and comment from Kim) although I do think with YA these days you can still be safe in 80,000 words although maybe a tad high. Fantasy YA of course can be higher.

Women’s fiction, literary fiction or anything I failed to mention above: 80,000 to 100,000 (sometimes 125,000, especially in the case of literary fiction).

Now all of these are ranges and estimations. You are unlikely to be rejected simply because you’re at 78,000 for your women’s fiction or 110,000 for your romance. That being said, if you start coming in at 175,000 words, 200,000 words, or 41,000 words, you better take a close look at your book. No one in their right mind would think you’re somewhat close to range. Let’s put it this way, we give a range so that you know what the fudge factor is. We’re all smart people and we all know that when we ask something to be within a range we’ll allow for some leeway. Just think about how much leeway you’d allow and keep it at that.

I think the biggest thing about word count to remember is that it’s more than just an arbitrary number that publishers set down to make your life hard. For one thing, this is what readers tend to expect and yes, let’s face it, we all know a reader who will avoid a book simply because it looks too long or even too short. We humans tend to be creatures of habit, and if we’re used to reading 100,000 words give or take we expect 100,000 words. The other thing to consider is that as long as we’re still selling books primarily in a paper format, it’s an expense issue. A book costs more if it has more pages and somewhere along the line those costs have to be passed on to readers. Are you prepared to be the most expensive book on the market just because you insist that not one of those 300,000 words can be cut? Trust me, it’s hard enough to sell a book without out-pricing yourself.

So how do you count your words? In the days before computers it was 250 words per double-spaced page. This was the way I was taught to count, and back in my days as an editor this was still the way (roughly) production people counted to predict how big a book would be. Why? Because a 200-page book filled with short snappy dialogue is going to have far fewer words than a 200-page book filled with long descriptive paragraphs. In other words, it’s about figuring page space and not word count. That being said, I’ve seen a lot of conflicting opinions from agents on how word count should be done—whether it’s using the word count key on your computer word processing program or counting pages. Frankly, I don’t think it matters. No one is going to check and no one is going to criticize you because you were 100, 1,000, or even 10,000 words off in your count. It’s just to give us an idea of where things stand, so do what works for you.

There, I hope I did it, but I’m sure I didn’t. I hope I answered, finally, questions on word count.

Dan Holloway said...

Jessica, may I ask a question (I should point out I'm writing for the UK, so what I say may not apply over there) that's always puzzled me but I've never had a chance to put to an agent?

Your word limits are absolutely what I hear all the time, and what I would aim for. In particular we are told there is no market for novellas. Yet when I go into bookstores, there are tables of "in translation" literary fiction almost all of which is 100-150 pages long. I'm thinking of Banana Yoshimoto, Marie Darrieussecq, Alessandro Baricco, even books like (not fiction I know) The Diving Bell and The Butterfly. And many of these are first books.

Is this: 1. because these books have already proven themselves in their country of origin (in which case, shouldn't the fact they also succeed outside show there is a market for novellas?) or 2. because audiences somehow have different expectations for fiction in translation?

I guess I'm intrigued why we're always steered so clear of novella length when we see so many novellas selling so well by overseas authors.

Thank you in advance - I'm sure others will ask this too.

BookEnds, LLC said...

My real answer is I have no clue, but my speculative answer is exactly as you suggest, that these books have already proven themselves in other countries.

Anonymous said...

I write YA, and your word counts there are off.

*YA word count is usually 50k-65k.

*Fantasy and other ms that require "world-building" can be a bit longer, like 80k or 85k.

But contemporary? For an unpublished author? 80k is not the norm, no. There is also a huge age range in YA, and the word counts reflect that. A clean, fast, fun book for a 12 year old usually isn't going to be 80k -- but an edgy, ms meant for a 14+ crowd might be.

Dan Holloway said...

Thank you, Jessica, for getting back to me so quickly.

Andrew said...

I'm always confused when it comes not so much to word count, but to word per page count.

I understand that kicking out an 800 page novel (200000 words then) is going to be an extra cost for a publisher and I'm not even gonna bitch about the sheer number of novels over 600 pages I have and/or read (OK I admit, they are pretty much all sci-fi and fantasy, Dean Koontz or Stephen King).

For example. I finished my first novel and am in the process of grinding it down. I took the first page of 'Watchers' by Dean Koontz, typed the whole thing out, counted the number of lines and reformatted the font & size to match it perfectly. I then wrote 287000 words of first effort novel (i.e. over written) it came to exactly 800 pages. There's a good mix of dialogue and chunky prose in there. That's as good as 360 words per page.

I read Dan Brown's Digital Fortress...512 pages...which is 128000 words at 250 per page. I counted the lines of text, 34, which is the same as 'watchers'. If it averages 350 as well that's 178000. I then thought about all the books I've picked up in bookshops. Most seem 400-500 pages (OK in fantasy this is short, as in sci-fi, but thrillers and paranormal that I read this seems the standard. Even Michael Marshall Smith, who wrote 3 thinnish sci-fi before I picked up a crime one, knocked out 440 pages in Bad Things).

OK...I know I'm nit-picking. but 250 words per page seems too short considering then that 400 page novels are the upper maximum you can have, 80K is 320 pages (@ 250/page) which seems waaay slim. So my questions are as follows.

1) Are they a whole swathe of books, most that are published in fact, that are around 300 pages in length on average (75K) but fall into genre's I do not read - namely YA, Women's fiction and such. This could be the simplest answer of course, that crime and thrillers (paranormal or otherwise) represent a much smaller percentage of published books.

2) Most 300 page books actually don't get well marketted, so the larger (400-500 page) books appear more often as they tend to be 2nd or 3rd publshed efforts which equals more production money slated against them.

3) Do most books actually come out of revision and editting with *more* words because of plotting issues and clarification. For all the line editting it pales in comparison to the 15 page scene written in to knit things together.

4) I'm from England. Do we just have thicker books here??

As you can see this is something that occupies my thoughts, simply because I struggle to imagine this world where a whole sea of 300 page books exist in a place I've never been.

Word verification - nolle: to burrow with one's nose

Mark Terry said...

And just an addendum:

12 point Courier font, a 100,000 word novel (by software count) will run somewhere in the 500 to 600 page range, give or take. In fact, I just checked. My 89,000 word manuscript in 12 point Courier is 505 manuscript pages long.

But the same manuscript in 12 point Times New Roman is exactly 400 manuscript pages long.

It's been acquired and will come out sometime in 2011 (It's currently titled The Valley of Shadows), so despite the manuscript length, the publisher's more interested in the approximately 90,000 word length.

Andrew said...

by the way I'm not moaning or anything like that - if that's the word limit, that's the word limit, end of story. I can't change it, my tastes in books won't change it, and agents know the market about 190,876,455% more than I do.

I'm completely without judgement in my confusion. I really can't get my head round how there are so many books, it appears, that seem that much longer than 80K using the 250/page rule. This is my geek side having a fit in other words...=0)

Kim Kasch said...

"There, I hope I did it, but I’m sure I didn’t. I hope I answered, finally, questions on word count."

There is no "finally" in the wonderful world of writing - the only constant is constant change

But thanks it was an interesting post

Andrew said...

Oh one more thing - Does e-publishing mean word counts will take a back seat?? (no paper etc)

Last one I promise...=0)

Laurel said...

I am laughing out loud because I've done the same thing!

And Jessica: The only reason we keep bugging you about word count is because everyone starts out with too many words. We cling to the hope that if we keep asking the same thing the answers might change in our favor. My five year old employs this strategy with frequency. It doesn't work for him, either.

Rick Daley said...

Two quick questions for Jessica or anyone that knows:

- What about a humor novel?

- What about cozies (for word count, but also what are cozies)? I've read that they can be shorter.

BookEnds, LLC said...

All those numbers and my poor pea brain started to shut down ;) No worries though you didn't come off any other way but confused and now I am too.

I think Mark Terry had a very valid point that I didn't consider and that was font. Depending on the font you're going to get different counts at 250 words per page. The other thing to consider when looking at these page count books is whether they are dialogue heavy and the very last thing to consider is who these authors are. You cannot compare bestselling or established authors (S. King) with anyone else since they now make their own rules.

Keep in mind manuscript pages do not directly translate to book pages either so you can't use my word count numbers when looking at books. When I'm saying 250 words per page I'm talking typical manuscript pages.

Hope that helps instead of confusing more.

Mira said...

Wow. This is really helpful information. Succinct and clear.

Thank you, Jessica.

I hope you link this one on the sidebar - if you want to.

Can I just say that I hope all new words are as delicious as Fudgy? Nice one. :)

Mira said...

Oh, I'd like to know about humor books too. I get the impression they can be shorter.

Kate Douglas said...

My Wolf Tales all run between 75k-90k words, computer count, or 300-360 typed pages at 25 lines per page, dark courier font, with one inch margins. While my contract calls for books that are 80k words in length, my editor has never said anything about the discrepancy in word count--and, as Jessica has said, stories with more dialogue will run to more pages with fewer words in order to adjust to the "white space" on the page. I honestly think it just comes down to writing the best story you can and aiming for a general word length--except in category romance, where the rules tend to be much more strict. I keep the word count toolbar on my manuscript page so I can check as I write--it helps me know when to start tying up the loose ends and completing the story arc, but I tend to worry more what my characters are up to than how many words it's taking them to get into and then out of trouble.

Andrew said...

This is what happens when you work with stats everyday, you start talking in binary.

Basically what I'm saying is, to strip it down to 1 point/observation, is if you pick up a novel, and type out a page I would wager that it's more than 250 a page. That means that the upper limit of 100K now takes up less than 400 pages. All i'm asking is, where are these books? What am I missing? Am I living in some kind of bizarre escher like world where perspective and word count a re warped by a skilled printer??...hehe

MS page count I think are irrelevant - books aren't printed double spaced in courier. I type everything in single line verdana pt 14 so it 'looks' like a book. Then I reformat the whole lot once I've finished into double spaced courier.

Juliana Stone said...

I think most pub houses are using computer word count. so, really, forget those other numbers, look at your computer word count and write! Or else it will drive you crazy! My ms I turned into my pub was approx 97K finished, on my computer with the font I use I think it was 321 pages. In the book it will be more like 390. FWIW

good luck and happy writing!

Sally MacKenzie said...

I go by the 250 words per page theory when I write. I write in 12 pt. Courier New not because I like the font but because it gives me the most accurate "fit". I also jiggle the line spacing to give me 25 lines per page (it's a little less than double space). Doing those formatting things means I can be pretty sure that when I hit somewhere around 400 manuscript pages, I'll have the right length book. My contracts say 95,000 words, I think, but if I actually wrote 95,000 words by computer count, my books would be too long since I have a lot of dialog and short paragraphs.

I now write with a view always to where I am in the book physically. It helps shape my story. I had to jettison a few interesting characters once when I realized I didn't have enough pages left to include them properly.

I guess one thing I'm trying to say is word count is more than just an annoyance. A 95,000 word book--even by page count--is a different story than a 70,000 word book. Or a 25,000 word novella. The number of characters, the number of subplots, the pacing are all affected by word count.

Kate Douglas said...

So true, Sally. My new series is mass market and the contract called for 110k words, but my editor said she really wanted a "bigger" book if I could come up with 120k. I had no idea how different my pacing would have to be for the longer length, though I must admit, it was really fun to have the room to develop a meatier plot and more fleshed out characters. And, FWIW, I just got my new cover art and I'm so excited about how PERFECT it is, I can hardly stand myself! Take a look--it's posted at with a full chapter excerpt. (Sorry, Jessica--can't contain myself!)

Ulysses said...

"Finally?" I don't think human nature allows for anyone to answer a question "finally."

But you've answered it definitively, and I appreciate that a great deal. I have a WIP fantasy that is just under 90K. It's losing a lot of words during this editing pass, and I've been worried that it might become too short for the market.

Christine Fletcher said...

Anon 8:39, YA word counts are all over the board. Both my published YA novels clocked in at about 90-95K words. (One is contemporary, the other historical. No fantasy or paranormal.) I write for older teens, though, so that may make a difference.

Angie Fox said...

Great point, Sally. I'm on my sixth book (the third published one) and I'm just now getting to the point where it's second nature to know exactly where I am on word count vs where I should be in the story.

I don't like 12-point Courier New, but my editor does. So I'll write the book in Times New Roman and switch it at the end. Right now, I'm at 65,000 words (or around page 230 on the manuscript in Times New Roman) and I know this is about when I need to head into the climax of the book.

The final book will hit at around 75 - 80K. Then revisions (I tend to write short) will bump it up by about 4K.

My contracts call for 80 - 85K, but I think The Accidental Demon Slayer came in at 78K and The Dangerous Book for Demon Slayers came in at 83K. No one cared. It was about the story and about coming in at roughly where I needed to be. Plus, I write a lot of dialogue, so that puts me at a higher page length without as many words.

I've talked to authors who tend to write long and have turned in 95K+ manuscripts when their contracts call for 80-85K. No one has made them cut. However, I just talked to a NY Times bestseller who received her printed galleys (after turning in a much longer than expected book) and her publisher had reduced the type size of the words on the page in order to fit everything onto the 380 or so pages they gave her for the final book.

Now that the book is out, she's getting upset reader mail from people who are having a hard time sinking into her story because they're squinting to see the words.

She talked to her publisher about it and they basically said tough tootsies. With paper costs being what they are, a bigger book was too expensive. Their best answer, in order to keep her book in tact, was to shrink the word size on the page and crowd more lines onto each page. She's not a big enough name yet to write her own rules like a Stephen King or J.K. Rowling.

So the word counts really are there for a reason. It lets the publisher know what to expect, the reader knows what he/she is getting and the author has a guideline when it comes to constructing the story.

Stephanie Faris said...

Thanks for the great tips. In the past when I wrote YA, generally I wrote with a specific publisher in mind and it's amazed me how many of them ask for 40,000 words when many in the industry say 50,000 as a minimum. The problem is, you keep it at 40,000 for that publisher and then other publishers will say it's too short. I'm going to print this out and use it as a general guideline when I'm writing something I know I'll be submitting to agents.

Pamela Hammonds said...

If you're wanting to compare your title to a book already published, go to Renaissance Learning ( and click on Store and then Quiz Store. You can type in next to Title the name of the book and then click Go! Since it's a school site, you won't find every title, but I've found Sparks, Berg, Meyers, Irving and enough there to be helpful.

Anonymous said...

This is how I understand the way word count is determined in a manuscript. If you use Courier, 12-point, each letter takes up exactly the same amount of space (not so with New Times Roman). Each "word" is considered to have 5 letters followed by a space, so that each line has sixty spaces and therefore 10 words. You have to set your lines at "Exactly 25" (double-space may give you 24) and that gives you 10 words times 25 lines = 250 "words". This has nothing to do with ACTUAL word count. Some of your actual words are longer or shorter than 5 letters. Some of your lines contain far fewer words than 10. The point is how much ROOM in a manuscript does your novel take up. And this does not translate to a paperbook or hardcover, which use different fonts, different page widths and different numbers of lines. But publishers know how to translate that ms length to their needs.
I'm sure Jessica was including cozies when she said mysteries should be b/t 70 and 90,000. In the past, I had thought cozies only required 60-65,000, but maybe this is no longer true. Am I right about that, Jessica? As for a definition of cozies (again, correct me if I'm wrong), they are mysteries in which an amateur solves the murder and there is no "on stage" violence or gore. A trend has been to make your protagonist some sort of crafter (e.g. a knitter) or just an oddball quirky person. I don't believe either of those are necessary as long as he or she is an amateur and the tone is gentle as opposed to edgy and street-wise.

Bija Andrew Wright said...

Dan Holloway: Looking at novellas in translation, you can also consider the readership and the translation. A lot of times, translators try to keep affectations and style of the original language, which makes for dense reading in English. Add to that unfamiliar cultures, unfamiliar character names, etc. So if I want to learn about Egyptian culture, a thick novel in translation might be too intimidating--but I can find a novella or two by Naguib Mahfouz, not too difficult to read, but still feels like an accomplishment.

Whereas if I pick up something in a familiar genre, familiar writing style, unknown writer but writing in English, and it's only 40,000 words, it will feel like I only read half a book.

SM Schmidt said...

At last! I'm so happy to finally have a "rough" guideline to follow regarding length. My worries about which count to follow, allowing MS Word or doing it myself, have been soothed. Hand counting would have been very painful.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the 80K / YA is okay word count. In my experience (recent, m.s. submitted to editors at imprints at the big publishing houses) my (approximately) 90K m.s. was considered long. But this didn't come out until the end of the very long submission process when the last pass letter mentioned, "I'm not used to reading m.s. more than 250 pages.)

Because my YA does have some sections with (poems, very short chapters), the physical m.s. was longer (as per your post's qualification.)

Still, that editor's comment made me rethink how I'm writing my new m.s. ... short, short, short. Even before submission, my agent asked me to cut - and 80-90 pages went.

Finally, it was sold as an adult trade.

Topic suggestion: what writer's on submission learn/don't learn from pass letters.

Anonymous said...

@Kate Douglas, you raise an interesting (to me) point about font (dark courier). I've long thought a not-quite bold (font) but blacker font (than the regular one) looks better.

I'm curious about Jessica's take on manuscript presentation as it relates to font ... literally, how the words look on the (paper) page.

also, courier is often cited as the default font. yet it seems other fonts look somewhat better. it's morning and I can't remember which ones though...

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous, 11:20 a.m., wow, so word count really isn't word count? your description indicates, as I read it, that word count is not a strict and actual word count but a font/space/size count? which makes me wonder if this discussion isn't really (or, also) about character count ie., "about" has five letters but is a shorter word than, "character" which has nine.

yikes, I knew knew I was such a I'm a how-it-looks geek

Bane of Anubis said...

Ha, I used to be on the very high end of the spectrum -- now I struggle to get to 60k... I feel like several books I've read/listened to suffer b/c they add filler (either a new section or throughout), probably to attain these higher word counts.

Thanks for the post and have a good weekend everyone :)

WV: nerschit -- what the patient in the dentist's chair said after the dentist told him "this is gonna hurt"

Anonymous said...

To anon 12:27 from anon 11:20:
That is how I understand it (I've spent a LOT of time researching this on the net b/c I had so many questions about it and found that explanation somewhere--I believe the search I did was "manuscript guidelines word count". It was the only explanation I read that made any sense to me.

Kristin Laughtin said...

Laurel said:
And Jessica: The only reason we keep bugging you about word count is because everyone starts out with too many words. We cling to the hope that if we keep asking the same thing the answers might change in our favor.

That's exactly it. My first MS (that I wrote with the intention of seeking publication, though I have not done so yet) was about 160,000 words in the first draft, and that was after I realized halfway through that I needed to be more succinct if I wanted any hope of being able to cut it down to a decent word count. (I did in subsequent drafts.) My current MS is ~125,000 words right now and about 2/3-3/4 done, but thankfully there's a lot of padding and world-building in the first half that I know can be greatly trimmed down. I write SF so I can get away with a higher count, but being concise is still something I need to learn.

Anonymous said...

P.S. to anon 12:27 from 11:20. It is only a space count, not a character count, b/c the number of characters actually written on each line is irrelevant. For example, a three- word line of dialogue takes up just as much space as a full line of narrative (i.e., one line).

Anonymous said...

It's anon 12:20 again. Check out (about halfway down on the right side).

Emily Kokie said...

I wanted to second Christine Fletcher in saying the YA word counts do appear to vary a little more than some suggest, and in my experience trend a bit higher than some suggest.

The anecdotal experiences I'm familiar seem to suggest it varies a bit by which end of the YA spectrum it falls as well as subject matter - with more room for the 80,000-90,000 word YA at the upper end.

I'd say the sweet spot for mid to upper YA looks to be about 60,000-70,000 words, but with a good bunch of books a little under and a little over...making the wide range 50,000-80,000, with some room above 80,000 for YA fantasies.

Lisa said...

I just wanted to let you know I've linked to this post in the first ever World of Fiction newsletter. Please let me know if it's a problem, and I'll be happy to remove it.

- Lisa

Sally MacKenzie said...

Another thing about word count--if an editor sees something they love in a manuscript that's not at the right word count, he or she may just have you fix it. That's what happened to me.

I sold my first book via RWA's Golden Heart contest. I'd entered The Naked Duke in the Regency category which back then was for shorter, category-sized books that aren't widely published any longer. I'm guessing it was around 20,000 words short for the type of book it became, though I didn't fully understand word count back then, so I'm not sure. Anyway, one of the judging editors contacted me and bought it, telling me just to "make it longer."

Not sure that happens often, but it did happen once.

RW said...

Awhile ago I finally figured out how to get a good estimated conversion of typescript pages to published pages. Basically, subtract 17-19% from your total number of typescript pages. Here's how I arrived at that:

Anonymous said...

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so I guess I will. I'm contracted to write e-books all year long and the word count is usually 50,000. I'm not saying I like this, but it's what they contract me to do. I was also just contracted to write a print book for a publisher at 60,000 words. And many e-books I know on fictionwise, allromanceebooks, and other sites are about the same, or less sometimes.

I'm not posting this to start a huge discussion over word count, and I'm posting anon. It's just this is what I'm being told by my agent, and publishers. If this is only a trend, and word count will continue to remain standard, I'll find out soon enough. But it seems that word counts are shrinking these days, especially with all the e-publishers.

Anonymous said...

Anon 435: I'm so intrigued. You write 50,000-word books all year long? How many do you write (on ave) in a year? And what is the genre? Does it pay as much as print?

DebraLSchubert said...

From what I've read and heard from agents, Jessica's word count recommendations are fairly standard. I write women's fiction and mystery, and stick to around the 80-85K mark. It's where the books seem to naturally wind up. Like Jessica said, "all of these are ranges and estimations." As with everything in the publishing business (and with most things in life), nothing's carved in stone. But it's nice to have guidelines.

JA said...

Way back in the days when computers were first doing word processing ...

A friend of mine was writing a new book for their SF series. Wrote it to 120,000 words. Submitted it. Publisher said, cut it to 90,000.

They did it by cutting the number of submitted MS pages (yes, that was before electronic transmission). They did it by going through the MS and, but editing out a word here, a couple of words there, they decreased the total number of pages with an absolute minimum effect on the whole story they wanted to tell.

I do some small scale publishing for local authors and have had to use this technique several times to get things to "fit."

Pages do count. (Does this bring us to a discussion of why any publisher would think I'd pay $24 for an e-book?)

Anonymous said...

"Anon 435: I'm so intrigued. You write 50,000-word books all year long? How many do you write (on ave) in a year? And what is the genre? Does it pay as much as print?"

I've written 60,000 word novels in three weeks. If you write 5,000 words a day, it's possible. The 50,000 word books usually take about six weeks. I've had years where I've written ten novels, but I don't like to do more than seven or eight a year. The books have to be carefully edited and then go to copyediting, which has to be perfect.

The genres range from Sci-Fi to romance. I cross genres and use several pen names. And, I also have other obligations to print publishers, too. So it's a busy schedule. And it gets tense because you want the quality to be there.

The money is okay, but not much better than anything in print. If you can work on volume, the income gets better the more you produce. I read something interesting a few weeks ago on a comment thread on a popular blog. The commentors were talking about an e-book of mine, and guessing about the money I was making. The numbers were outrageously large, and nowhere near what I make. I had to laugh. If only it were true.

jnantz said...

If no one else has told you (and I haven't read the comments to see if they did), YES, you did it. You told us (the intelligent ones, anyway), exactly what we needed to know about word count.

Thank you.

Kate Douglas said...

to anonymous 12:20: Dark courier is the same as courier new, only darker. Not quite bold, but it prints out nice and clear and fills the same space on the page as courier new. You can google fonts and download it free online.

Brittany Hansen said...

Maybe I'm just lazy or weird or both, but I just have my word processing program count the words for me. I don't think it's really necessary to get technical with the words at the writing stage, you just let it flow. There will always be differences with the word on a page, you have to remember that 'I' is a word and Supercalifragilisticexpialadocious is a word (not really but you get the idea) and they both take up different amounts of space. If you're going to get that technical maybe you should count the characters.

Or just take Jessica's advice and go for 80,000 words and make everybody's life simpler.

Wendy Qualls said...

When trying to figure out the pacing and page count for my WIP, I went through several of my favorite romances and counted the words on a few representative pages to see how many words end up on a printed page. (Hint for if you want to try this: turn the page upside-down and count it that way. Your brain doesn't make the words as easily so it's much faster to count.) In the published books, they ended up with 300+ words per page - even the ones with dialogue.

I have been keeping track of word count via the built-in one in the computer and the number of pages in each chapter, but do I need to be counting a strict 250 words/page even if that's not actually accurate?

London Mabel said...

This kind of thing is SO helpful, and why I'm so glad for you agent and pub peeps to be writing blogs. Merci merci!

Buffy Andrews said...

Thank you for this post. I do have a question, though. I have a couple of middle-grades that I am seeking representation for. I'm hearing from some agents that the word count is not high enough. But, while I can certainly add to the manuscripts, I wonder what's wrong with telling the story we have to tell in the number of words it takes to tell it? So, let’s say I've written a MG that comes in at 18,000 words. I might even think that this book would be great for a reluctant reader. I'm sure that I could add to this MS and make it longer, but should we dismiss something based simply on word count?
As an editor, I've read many books in which I felt the writing could be tightened. There have been times when I felt a whole chapter could be killed because it didn't move the story ahead or show character development. Maybe it's just because I've been a journalist for years and look at things differently. Am I making sense at all? I'm just trying to understand why we can't tell the stories we have to tell in the number of words it takes to tell them with no padding or adding just for the sake of meeting a pre-established word count. And, of course, I'm not talking about something being 6,000 words, but in the ballpark, perhaps just on the lower end of the word count. Anyway, thanks for listening, and I would appreciate any guidance or feedback on this.
I'm finishing a MG (which totally cracks me up) that will be longer than the other ones I've written not because I am shooting for it to be longer, but because the story requires it. It will be interesting to see how agents respond to the query on this one compared to the others simply based on word count.
Lastly, I really appreciate your posts. You offer valuable insight and I’m learning new things every day.

Anonymous said...

"No one is going to check and no one is going to criticize you because you were 100, 1,000, or even 10,000 words off in your count. It’s just to give us an idea of where things stand, so do what works for you."

So, can I correctly assume that if you guys said "no" to a 60K manuscript because it seemed too short, and it turns out that the MS is in fact 70K according to another method of word counting, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, because 70K is too short as well? No special genre here.

I'm sad that the 60K number in my query might have turned off some agents when I in fact could have used a 70K word count and still been industry-appropriate.

Anonymous said...

Andrew (July 24)...
I think you are confusing yourself needlessly. Go by word count. No one is saying a printed page = 250 words. Word count (assuming your manuscript is in courier 12 with 1-inch margins) in a manuscript *will* come out to about 250 words per page. This is useful only as a writer's alternate way of assessing the length of a manuscript, nothing more. Before word processing and computers, people did not actually count words. They counted the pages in their manuscript and then multiplied by 250 in order to calculate the total word count of their novel.

If you want to compare the recommended manuscript length to actual books in the store, you need to look only at the new ones, books acquired within the past year or two. Books printed 5, 10, 20 years ago cannot be compared. Publishers were acquiring longer books then than they are now.

Jessica said...

I don't like to read books that look too short, except category. I'm always afraid that the book won't deliver because it's too small.
That said, eek!!! My cont. romance is weighing in at 75k. We'll see how querying goes. LOL

Barry said...

I've been told by an agent that my 170,000 word adult fantasy is way too long and that I should cut it to 60,000-80,000. This seems wrong since most fantasies are at least as long as mine and often much longer. My friend's first novel, 190,000 word a fantasy, has just been published by a major publisher.

PV Lundqvist said...

Huh. The YA word count sounds a bit high. I keep hearing that houses are looking for books around 200 pages long. That would put the word count around 40-50k.

Anonymous said...

Anon 435, 745:
Thanks for the lengthy response. I have to say, I am really impressed. I used to write 2,000 a day (yrs ago) and thought that was alot. Now, I shoot for 1,000. Today, feeling inspired by you, I am writing more. Thank you and the best of luck to you.

Anonymous said...

Barry, that's extremely long. Most fantasies are *not* that long. If you mean the ones by George Martin and others who have a regular readership already built up for an ongoing series, that's so. But most fantasies are in the 80,000-word neighborhood. Listen to your agent.

Robin S. said...

This is really helpful- thanks.
Especially the word count ballpark range for women's fiction.

Anonymous said...

when i want to compare the length of my work to other books i've read, i just go to to see if they have the text stats on it. just scroll down to the 'inside this book' section, and, sometimes 'text stats' will be a link under it. not only does it have the words, but what percentage of books have more or less

Anonymous said...

PV Lundqvist said...
"Huh. The YA word count sounds a bit high. I keep hearing that houses are looking for books around 200 pages long. That would put the word count around 40-50k."

My upper-level YA novel is 211 pages, 61,078 words, TNR 12 pt. in MS Word. My own past research on YA word count turned up 50-80,000 as an average guideline.

Thanks for this post. What occurred to me while reading was how the pre-determined word counts make it more difficult to query a novel that crosses categories.

For instance, my 61,000 word novel could be YA fiction, women's fiction or even offbeat lit fic, but querying a different category could take more than writing a new, category-appropriate query letter -- it could entail adding to the book.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that wrinkle.

paqart said...

I haven't seen much here regarding non-fiction. Is that different, or the same as fiction? All the non-fiction I buy tends to hover around 500 pages, and I've actually found myself walking away from books because they look too thin.

When I read a book, I like to get completely absorbed by the topic, and have found that it just doesn't happen with 300 pages.

My first two books came in at 300 and 400 pages respectively, but the one I just finished (cough), if the 12-pt Courier method is used, comes in at 136,000 words, or 544 pages.

I've considered breaking it into two volumes, as I did for my last two (they were supposed to be one 300 page book, but my publisher let me split it and more than double the page count). The present book is something I really don't want to split, but my former agent tells me it absolutely can't be over 90k. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope on this one, because from what I've seen here, there are plenty of exceptions to the rules.

As long as it isn't 40k or 200k, but somewhere in the middle, it sounds possible to publish, though the closer one gets to the outer markers, the slimmer the pickings get.

BTC said...

This has been a very informing post. Thank you for all of the input. I have a 245,000 Stephen Kingish type novel that I was just now starting to try and send queries out for and now I realize that it is way too long for a first work. I wrote it after doing word counts on other books in the genre and it is long but shorter than many of them. Now I realize that it needs to be divided into a trilogy since it is my first work. Fortunately I had divided it into three 'books' within the novel anyways each with it's own smaller plot that feeds into the larger plot and each with its own conclusion (but they all keep going on a bigger progressive plot). So now I guess I have three books to market as a trilogy not one large one. The first is 90k, the second is 80k and the third is 75k. The individual books will need a slight bit of tweaking to make sure they stand alone cleanly but I don't see any other strategy to have a first work(s) published without that divide. The work has already been thoroughly reviewed by an outside editor and there isn't a lot left to cut, it is just a long work that tells a complex story. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? Thank you for any and all information.

BTC said...

A further question... If you have a complete triology how do you pitch it to potential agents via query. One query at a time or a larger query that encompasses everything? Again thank you for any and all responses.

Jim said...

It looks to me like what they REALLY want to know is PAGE COUNT. Seems silly to figure out the number of pages, then calculate the number of words based on that, only to have them calculate back to pages. Why not just give us very specific dimensions and rules to put into our word processors and then let that tell how many pages?

Frex, some research turned up that the smallest books (the ones on the majority of bookshelves) are 5.25x8 inches, though I took a ruler to a book in my hand and found it was much smaller: 4.125x6.625. That's a loss of over an inch in each dimension!

Further measuring of books shows they have about 40 lines per page and around 10 words per line for full-length lines (as in, they go all the way across the page). Margins are about .375 inches, except the top, which is twice as much at .75 inches. This leaves a text area of 3.375x5.5 inches.

Dividing the vertical space by the number of lines yields about 10 points, but that would be with letters touching, so I think 9 or even 8 point fonts are being used. I'm no font expert, but I think something like Times New Roman is pretty close to what I'm seeing.

Of course, we know the above 400 WpP figure I calculated is for a text-dense page. Is the oft-quoted 250 also text-dense, or is it considered an average across all pages? If so, I'd expect a text-dense page to actually be around 300 WpP.

(Text-dense = large, long paragraphs, very few short-lines and very little whitespace left over.)

But wait! No agent/editor/publisher/whatever wants to have to squint at 8 point fonts on a screen, and they're for some reason unable to use the built-in zoom function to adjust the size to whatever is comfortable for them, so they want us to write on a regular 8.5x11 sheet with 1 inch margins with 12 or 14 point font and double-spacing, which comes out to around the same word per page counts, but with slightly different dimensions so that the published book still won't look much like what you send them.

Okay, am I getting off track? I'll stop.

(The above measurements were rounded to the nearest 1/8 of an inch.)

So the only thing I learned here was that when they say "word count", that doesn't have anything at all to do with the actual number of words, and what the really want is a page count, but they won't tell you the exact dimensions to put into your word processor, so there's no way to know in advance what to say, so you just give them a ball-park figure and hope they believe you.

Anonymous said...

I too have a story that involves a character with five personalities.This has taken a lot of words to develop each personality. If I try to cut it it wouldn't be believable and I am cutting it as much as I can. I can see the agonies of having to snip the personalites to make a word count. Isn't there any exceptions when it is as involved as that?

Jean said...

Thank you! I can always find the answers I'm looking for here and I appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Jen, for the advice.
I am a new writer,and only have 30,000 words, Now I will have to go back and more details while I'm writing. I thought i was almost done, silly me.

Shadow said...

Amazing how many unnecessary words I'm finding now that I'm looking for them....

Sara Hubbard said...

This is great information. One thing you didn't mention was upper YA. Since this seems to be a relatively new target that kind of bridges the YA and adult market, I can't find any specific guidelines for word count. My gut says my initial goal of 70,000-80,000 is acceptable, but I'm not sure.

Sara Hubbard said...

This is great information. One thing you didn't mention was upper YA. Since this seems to be a relatively new target that kind of bridges the YA and adult market, I can't find any specific guidelines for word count. My gut says my initial goal of 70,000-80,000 is acceptable for an upper YA contemporary, but I'm not sure.

Lauren F. Boyd said...

Many thanks for this information! It was exactly what I needed this evening.

Anonymous said...

My advice wold be concentrate on the story. Here is a list of books with 60000 words or less

The Lord of the Flies
The Great Gatsby
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
As I Lay Dying
Breakfast at Tiffany's
Brave New World
Animal Farm
Slaughter House 5
Hotel du Lac
The Old Man and The Sea

And if you look on the shelves of you local book store you'll be amazed how many books are around this level or less.


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Species Composition of Freshwater Shrimp in Kikai-jima Island, Southern Japan

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Abstract The present study investigated the species composition of freshwater shrimp fauna in Kikai-jima Island within the Ryukyu Islands in southern Japan. Six stream-pool sites, with Karimata-no-izumi in the north, followed by Shiomichi, Nagamine, Ooasato, Takigawa, and Urabaru, were sampled from June 2005 to June 2008. We identified eleven species belonging to two families: four Palaemonidae, and seven Atyidae. The most dominant species were Caridina typus as well as C. sakishimensis, which is a redlist (RDB) species sporadically distributed in the Ryukyu Islands. Together with C. typus and C. sakishimensis, M. lar and M. japonicum also dominated most of the study sites in Kikai-jima, and Morista's similarity index showed high similarities between five of the stations, except for Takigawa in the south. The highest densities of shrimp were recorded in Karimata-no-izumi followed by Ooasato, Nagamine, Urabaru at the southernmost, Shiomichi, and Takigawa. Comparing species composition in Kikai-jima and other islands of the Ryukyu group, cluster analyses showed greatest faunal similarity to Kume-jima in the lower central Ryukyus, with the Redlist C. sakishimensis recorded in both islands. This close similarity in shrimp composition between the two distant islands may be attributed to their geological origin and sizes of the islands, both measuring about 60 km2 in area.

Affiliations: 1: (ANS) Department of Freshwater Biology and Fisheries, University of Sindh, Jamshoro 76080, Sindh, Pakistan and Graduate School of Agricultural Science, Kagoshima University, Shimoarata 4-50-20, Kagoshima 890-0056, Japan; 2: (HS, correspondence, Laboratory of Aquatic Resource Science, Faculty of Fisheries, Kagoshima University, Shimoarata 4-50-20, Kagoshima 890-0056, Japan

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1. Bate C. S. 1868 "On a new genus and four new species of freshwater prawns." Proceeding of Zoological Society of London 1868. pp. 363 386, pls. 30, 31
2. Cai Yixiong , Husana D. E. M. 2009 "Cave shrimps of genus EndoneusHolthius 1978, from Luzon, The Philipines, with descriptions of three new species (Crustacea, Decapoda, Atyidae)." The Raffles Bulletin of Zoology Vol 57 51 63
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5. Ekman S. 1953 Zoogeography of the sea Sidwick and Jackson Ltd London
6. Fabricius J. C. 1798 Supplementum Entomologiae systematicae, pp. 1 572
7. Fujino T. , Shokita S. 1975 "Report on some new atyid shrimp (Crustacea, Decapoda, Caridea) from the Ryukyu Islands." Bulletin of Science and Engineering Division, University of the Ryukyus (Maths & Natural Science) Vol 18 93 113
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« And now, the 2013 National Book Award SHORTlists... | Main | Not gonna lie... »

18 October 2013

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I really loved OPHELIA and I rarely hear it spoken of. I should review it and see if anyone pops out of the woodwork. Klein did a great job of reclaiming that character, I thought.

Lovely list!

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