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Chelsea ManningDissenter FeaturedLatest NewsThe Dissenter

Chelsea Manning Received Same Sentence As Soldier Who Tried To Sell Information

Attorneys for United States military whistleblower Chelsea Manning argue her sentence was “far and away the most severe sentence ever adjudged” in the appeal filed at the Army Court of Criminal Appeals (ACCA). It challenges the Army for sentencing Manning to around the same amount of time as a soldier who sold classified information to someone he believed was a spy.

Manning was convicted of offenses nearly three years ago. The charges stemmed from her decision to provide WikiLeaks with over a half million U.S. government documents and a video of an Apache helicopter attack in Baghdad, widely known as the “Collateral Murder” video. She exposed war crimes, diplomatic misconduct, and other instances of wrongdoing and questionable acts by U.S. officials. She is serving her sentence at Fort Leavenworth.

Bryan Martin, a Navy intelligence specialist, pled guilty in 2011 to 11 charges, which stemmed from selling classified information to an undercover FBI agent. He paid for information four times at motels nearby Fort Bragg in North Carolina. He thought the FBI agent was a Chinese spy.

“By all measures, Pfc. Manning received the same sentence as a service member who wished to sell classified information for money,” her appeal declares [PDF].

Another case, which is much more well-known, involves General David Petraeus. He pled guilty to disclosing “highly classified information to his former mistress and biographer. He apparently disclosed the materials for sex.” Yet, for his crime, he pled guilty to one misdemeanor and was only sentenced to two years of probation.

The information, which Petraeus improperly possessed, included “Black Books” containing the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities, and notes from his discussions with President Barack Obama. He also lied to FBI special agents about leaking to his biographer. But his defense was able to convince prosecutors to back off and avoid charging Petraeus with a felony that would make it impossible for him to work as an adviser on matters of war in Washington again.

According to the appeal, “The trial counsel in Pfc. Manning’s case claimed her crime was worse than any soldier in history. He obviously did not have the benefit of knowing about General Petraeus’s misdeeds when he made the statement.”

Bryan Martin

Navy Intelligence Specialist Bryan Martin

Manning’s attorneys distinguish Martin and Petraeus’s from three whistleblower prosecutions pursued in federal court.

The appeal highlights Thomas Drake, an analyst for the National Security Agency, who blew the whistle on fraud, waste, and abuse involving a program called Trailblazer. He was accused of retaining classified information in violation of the Espionage Act. The Justice Department zealously pursued him, but ultimately, the case collapsed. Drake pled guilty to a misdemeanor and was sentenced to a year of probation—all because he spoke to a Baltimore Sun reporter about corruption at the NSA.

(*Note: A top official from the Defense Department inspector general’s office, John Crane, came forward to publicly affirm Drake’s claims that the IG office, which is supposed to back up whistleblower claims, sold him out to the Justice Department and revealed his identity to prosecutors, who used information provided to the office to criminalize him.)

CIA whistleblower Jeffrey Sterling is in federal prison in Littleton, Colorado, serving a sentence of three and a half years. A jury found him guilty of providing information on a botched operation in Iran to New York Times reporter James Risen, even though there was only a scant amount of circumstantial evidence to prove he leaked details to Risen. Federal sentencing guidelines advised prosecutors to sentence Sterling to more than twenty years in prison.

Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, who was a State Department employee who provided classified information to Fox News reporter James Rosen about the nuclear capabilities of North Korea, was sentenced to thirteen months in federal prison.

As the appeal states, “In the pantheon of cases involving disclosures motivated by whistleblowing, Pfc. Manning’s is far and away the most severe sentence ever adjudged. In the last five years alone, federal prosecutors have prosecuted more whistleblowers than at any time.”

The nearly 200-page appeal was submitted to ACCA on May 18. Manning’s attorneys, Nancy Hollander, Vincent Ward, and Captain Dave Hammond, her detailed counsel, spent years meticulously and methodically going through the vast array of records from her court martial to put together what they believed would be a robust appeal. Manning also took the time to raise over a hundred thousand dollars in funds for what is expected to be a costly challenge.

Shadowproof previously covered the significance of the appeal, such as how it alleges the Espionage Act was unconstitutionally applied to Manning and how Manning’s sentence became one of the “most unjust” sentences in military justice history.

Manning completed her sixth year in military custody on May 28.

“I have faced many struggles: my pre-trial time in solitary confinement, the charges against me under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, and the unconstitutionally vague Espionage Act, the lack of proof by the government that the disclosures actually harmed the United States’ national security or diplomatic interests in any significant way, and my eventual conviction and sentencing to an unprecedented 35 years in prison,” Manning wrote on her blog at Medium.

She said one thing she had learned is to act as her own “filter for information” instead of relying on others to “digest information” for her.

“This appeal is about more than just me personally. It’s about the chilling precedent set for future truth-tellers, journalists, and whistleblowers. It’s about free speech and a free press. It’s about your right to know the truth — to have access to enough information to allow us as a society to make informed decisions,” Manning added.

Her attorneys requested the appeals court reduce her sentence to ten years.

Verizon labor striker. Photo by modernsara on Flickr
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Kevin Gosztola is managing editor of Shadowproof Press. He also produces and co-hosts the weekly podcast, "Unauthorized Disclosure."


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Sep 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM

I have created this website based on ShrapMap v0.9. Though am still working on few issue related to data and measurements. I am as of now working on adding shapes to the map based on user pref.

It will be appreciative of you all if you could mail @ geo.India@ymail.com with necessary feedback.

JD: i looked into SharpMapv2 also downloaded the code form google. I would like to port the above website to sharpmap v2.0. if you could help me in that it would be highly appreciative of you

Sep 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM

I rinkurajat, I would hold off web rendering on v2 for the time being.. jd

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text:
Tennis Classic Fragment SP

Nike Sportswear

The latest collaborative effort between fragment design and Nike Sportswear comes through a pack of Tennis Classics. The pairs represent a modern twist on the 1973 tennis shoe - with all pairs featuring a clean white upper, perforated branding, and contrast heel tab.

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by SHOWstudio .

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And - keep a note in your diary. From today, we will be releasing a new mix every Monday. Ah sweet fashion music...


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Introduction to Unix (short course, 24 & 26 March 2014)

This two-day / six-unit course will provide students with a basic introduction to Linux and Unix systems in use in many of the biological and computational research departments around campus. Attendees will have access to a Linux computational server to practice various tasks and perform labs in order to familiarize themselves with the environment. The class materials will cover a variety of tasks from those often considered simple, such as logging in, through more advanced tasks like building an application. The course includes lectures, informal Q & A, and hands-on activities/labs. Registration required.

Completion of this course meets the Unix familiarity pre-requisite for the Introduction to Scientific Computing course. Later sessions will build from topics covered in the earlier ones — by registering for this course, you are agreeing to attend six sessions (note dates and times below – three consecutive sessions on 24 March and three consecutive sessions on 26 March). REGISTER HERE.

Instructors: Chris Collins (OIT), Jimmy Dorff (Physics), William Shaw (Library/Digital Scholarship), Drew Stinnett (OIT)
“Introduction to Unix” is co-sponsored by Digital Scholarship Services, Duke Research Computing, Department of Physics, and IGSP.

Course schedule

24 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 1: Shell Navigation and A Brief History of Unix
This class unit will be a basic introduction to the history of Unix/Linux, as well as an introduction to the students in the class and the instructor. We will also cover basic login and how to access servers remotely using SSH as well as console interaction and shortcut keys. Teer Building 106, 1:30 pm – 2:30 pm.

24 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 2: Basic File System Functionality
Once logged in, we will really get to work. This unit will cover many basic file system operations. Users will be able to navigate the various file system paths, learn where many common items are located, and how to interact with files based on permissions. Teer Building 106, 2:30 pm – 3:30 pm.

24 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 3: Interactions With Data and Disk Storage
Continuing from where we left off in the previous session, this one will cover how to further interact with files and directories, including gathering storage information, how and where you store your data, to read, compare, edit, and save your files, including archiving. Teer Building 106, 3:30 pm – 4:30 pm.

26 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 4: Exploring Methods of Data Transfer
This unit will deal with transferring data from one directory to another across servers, and across the internet, including methods to backup your data and secure its movement and transfer. Finally we will cover some basic network troubleshooting if you are having issues with any of the tasks. Teer Building 106, 1:30 pm – 2:30 pm.

26 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 5: Advanced File System Management
This unit will be a deeper dive into working with files and the filesystem, we will learn about linking to files elsewhere in the system, how to search for a file within the filesystem, using MD5 and SHA sums to verify file integrity, and how to search for content within files. Teer Building 106, 2:30 pm – 3:30 pm.

26 March
Introduction to Unix – Unit 6: Advanced Application Management
This unit will cover process management, how to see the amount of free resources on a system, and how many of these resources your jobs are using. We will cover basic job control including killing runaway processes, and also how to “background” a process so that you can logout and return to it later, and finally how to build a program for your own use. Teer Building 106, 3:30 pm – 4:30 pm.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 25th, 2014 at 3:32 pm and is filed under announcement, educational program, research computing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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text:
Welcome > Our Worship >

The Episcopal Church

The Church of Our Saviour is an Episcopal Parish of the Diocese of New Hampshire, which is part of the Episcopal Church in the United States, and in turn a part of the world-wide Anglican Communion

We are the 13th largest parish in the Diocese. Our membership includes nearly 100 families and individuals, totaling approximately 180 parishioners from 12 surrounding towns.

The Diocese of New Hampshire comprises 44 parishes and missions, and 9 summer and special-use chapels. Our Bishop, the  Rt. Rev. A. Robert Hirschfeld, is the tenth Bishop of New Hampshire. New Hampshire is 84th in size of the 120 dioceses in the country.

The Episcopal Church, as an “American Institution”, has an interesting history and beautiful liturgy of several forms as found in the Book of Common Prayer. Membership includes people of many and diverse religious backgrounds. Our diversity is a source of our strength.

To learn more about the Episcopal Church, click on one of the links below:

www.ecusa.anglican.org       The national Episcopal Web site

www.nhepiscopal.org                        The Diocese of New Hampshire Web site
 Episcopal Café an independent Web site featuring news, commentary, art, meditations and video.


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Application Description

The application features the use of GPS and is designed to be used while driving.
There are two main features of the application:

    The first is a speed limit indicator which will notify the driver of the current speed limit     and alert them if they are approaching this speed. Speed limit information is pulled from a
    database on the web (Wikispeedia). There are several ways in which the driver is warned if       they are approaching a customizable speed limit threshold. The background color of the
    application changes as they approach the threshold. Alarms include flashing background and
    audio. These alarms can be toggled on and off by the user.

    The second feature is an upcoming attractions display. The user chooses the types of
    attractions they are interested in seeing (examples: rest stops, restaurants, stores, etc.).
    The program displays upcoming attractions in geospatial order. As attractions are passed,
    they are removed from the screen.

Project Requirements

    The application...
    * runs on Android OS (2.2 and above).
    * is developed in Eclipse IDE using the Android sdk.
    * requires internet connectivity (3G/4G or WiFi).
    * utilizes the Google places API for local attraction information.
    * utilizes the Wikispeedia database for speed limit data.
    * utilizes GPS to determine the user's current location and speed.
    * displays the current speed limit.
    * calculates and displays the users current speed.
    * has the ability to submit speed limit data to Wikispeedia.
    * requires minimal input and attention from the user in order to minimize distraction while
* Application activities require no more than 3 inputs while driving.
    * alerts the user when approaching speed limit threshold.
     * The speed limit threshold is customizable.
* There are several ways in which the user is alerted...
            * A changing background color. Color becomes more intense as the user approaches
            * An audio alarm when the threshold is passed. There is a default alarm and the
                user can also customize this.
* The user can select which alerts he/she would like to have.
    * displays upcoming attractions to the user.
* The user can customize the type of attractions which they wish to see.
* This is done in a seperate menu before driving.
        * Attractions are prioritized first by what is upcoming on the current street.
            Additionally, attractions within a certain radius are displayed.
* The attractions are arranged in spatial order, indicating proximity to the user.
* Attractions which the user has passed are removed from the screen.
* Attractions can be "clicked" on in order to launch GPS navigation
            (seperate Android application) to navigate to said attraction.
    * features an adjustable backlight for night driving.
    * utilizes network resources in an efficient manner.

    * has a disclaimer splash screen, which the user must agree to, stating the following:
      "This application is not intended to replace normal driving habits or instruments.
        Speed limit data from this application may not be accurate. Vehicle speed data my not
        be accurate. The creators of this application do not condone speeding or irresponsible
        driving. This application is intended as a technology demonstration only. Use at your
        own risk."

    * use a shared Eclipse workspace synchrozied by Github source code repository.
    * use prototypes and test frequently. New features and prototypes are shared amongst
        developers weekly.


text:
His research interests include Healthcare, Health Analytics and Business Intelligence . Additional interests include Social Media Strategy, Accessibility and Usability of Systems, Information and Systems Security, Secure Business Processes , Web 2.0 and Knowledge Management, Semantic eBusiness, Knowledge Management, Intelligent Agents, Data mining and Machine learning.

His research has been published in leading IS Journals including Management Information System Quarterly, Executive, The European Journal of Information Systems, Journal of AIS (JAIS), IEEE Transactions on Systems, Man and Cybernetics, Information Systems Frontiers, Communications of the ACM, AIS Transactions on Human Computer Interaction (THCI), Information Systems Management, eService Journal, International Journal of Semantic Web and Information Systems, International Journal of Intelligent Information Technologies, Information Resources Management Journal, International Journal of Production Engineering Socio-Economic Planning Sciences.

Rahul is a member of the editorial board for the International Journal of Semantic Web and Information Systems, the International Journal for Intelligent Information Technologies, the Journal of Information Technology Theory and Applications, and the International Journal of Information Security and Privacy. He served as Editor-In-Chief for the Journal of Information Science and Technology (JIST)

Rahul regularly teaches undergraduate and graduate course in Systems Analysis and Design, and Information Assurance and Systems Security. Rahul teaches doctoral seminars in IS Research Frameworks, Systems Design and Development and in Information Assurance and Systems Security.


text:
Apple Lemon Honey Cake

2 cups almond flour
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
pinch of salt

2 eggs
1/3 cup honey
1/2 cup Greek yogurt
2 teaspoons lemon zest

1 apple

powdered sugar for garnish (optional)

Serves 8
Preheat oven to 180C/375F. Line or grease cake pan with removable bottom.

In a bowl, combine almond flour, baking soda and salt.
In a another bowl, beat the eggs lightly. Stir in honey, yogurt and zest.
Combine wet and dry ingredients.
Core the apple, cut into eight wedges, then slice each wedge thinly. Gently fold the apple pieces into the batter. Transfer batter to prepared cake pan.

Bake for about 25-30 minutes, or until top is golden brown and cake tester comes out clean. Let cool on wire racks.

© Anja's Food 4 Thought. Recipe from


text:
Renee Kingan

Though Renee Kingan teaches Literary Arts at SOA, she has spent most of her life making music.  She began her musical career as a flutist in fourth grade and began playing the tenor saxophone for the jazz band at Shawnee High School in Medford, NJ.  In addition to playing in concert band, marching band, regional orchestra, pit orchestra for musicals (My Fair Lady, Grease, and Forty-Second Street), church music ensembles, All South Jersey Band, Orchestra, and Wind Ensemble, young Renee also spent two summers playing pit percussion in the then-fledgling Jersey Surf Drum and Bugle Corps.

Also during her undergraduate years, Ms. Kingan was selected as a member of the 1996 Disney All-American College Band, and she began her ten-year career as a musician at Busch Gardens Williamsburg.  At Busch Gardens, Ms. Kingan played in the Starlight Orchestra, the StarFRIGHT orchestra, This is Oktoberfest, Dublin Over, Holiday in Roma, and Funiculi Funicula.  She also spent a season as a stage manager for Starlight, Starfright, and Roma where she mixed live sound in addition to bossing people around (and cleaning up after them).  Other professional gigs have included playing for Carnival Cruise Lines, the Williamsburg Classic Swing Orchestra, the Tidewater Saxophone Quartet, the Tom Cunningham Orchestra, the Buddy Clarke Spirit of America Band, and pit orchestras for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, Urinetown, and Guys and Dolls.  Ms. Kingan has also played in several community bands both here and in Northern Virginia.

When she’s not making a lot of noise with her instruments, you can find Ms. Kingan teaching Literary Arts to 10th and 8th graders, taking grad classes in American Studies at William & Mary, designing and maintaining the SOA website and online literary magazine, helping with audio for SOA productions, teaching private flute and saxophone lessons, dressing up in silly outfits, riding her bike to raise money for the National MS Society, or spending time with her wonderful roommates.


text:
Karen Earle

Energenic and Caring experience Nanny Available Immediately.

Sitter in Brooklyn

I am a loving, caring, reliable, organized and responsible nanny with 8 years plus experience who love to entertain children. I took care of children from 2 months old to school age. I am CPR certified with college education where I did Child Development. I am available for immediate employment. I have tons of energy and patience. I love to do educational method with toddlers at age appropriate time to enhance their fine motor skills I do this in arts and crafts, singing, reading, music, dancing, coloring, play dough, puzzles as play dates, and outings in the park, playground, library and museum. I love the one and one contact with children in their home where they are comfortable. I enhance good social manners and supervise the children activities at all time to make sure there is safety. My experience includes, newborns twin, infants, toddlers, school age and multiple children all at one. I have great child-rearing skill/ expertise. I do sleep training. My duties included preparing healthy meal for children where I introduce new meal. I also do all task relating to child care which includes laundry for the children taking them to doctor when parents are not available. I am also very comfortable with animals. I am very easy going and amenable to what you need me to do. I am willing to do light housekeeping and load and unloading the dish washer.

Sitter Details

Email Address ...@yahoo.com Confirmed
Phone Number 347-654-...
Years of Experience 8
Provider Type Individuals
Age Group Newborn (0-12 months)
Toddler (1-3 years)
Early School Age (4-6 years)
Services Nanny
School Pick-up and Drop-off
Pet Care
Training Cpr
First Aid
Household Light Meal Preparation
Run Errands
Light Housekeeping
General Special Needs
Hourly Rate $18.00
Number Of Children 3
Twins/Multiples Yes

Your Note
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020tuan.org Traffic Report

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020tuan.org Estimated Valuation

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Estimated Valuation: $ 8.95
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020tuan.org Safety Information

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020tuan.org HTTP Header Analysis

Http-Version: 1.1
Status-Code: 200
Status: 200 OK
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:01:27 GMT
Server: Apache
Vary: Accept-Encoding,User-Agent
Content-Encoding: gzip
Content-Length: 193
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Domain Information

Domain Registrar: Public Interest Registry More on this Registrar

DNS Record Analysis

Host Type TTL Extra
020tuan.org A 297 IP:
020tuan.org NS 299 Target: dns18.parkpage.foundationapi.com
020tuan.org NS 299 Target: dns17.parkpage.foundationapi.com
020tuan.org SOA 299 MNAME: dns17.parkpage.foundationapi.com
RNAME: abuse.opticaljungle.com
Serial: 2011062801
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020tuan.org PTR 299 Target: dns17.parkpage.foundationapi.com
020tuan.org TXT 299 TXT: v=spf1 a -all

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Journal TheRealMindChild's Journal: Stupidity runs amok! 1

Yep. Banned again.

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting has temporarily been disabled. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner . If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, please email moderation@slashdot.org with your MD5'd IPID and SubnetID, which are "b8690e61585b156091065d4ba84649a9" and "c28a3baaf7d76466113b6358eb58324c" and (optionally, but preferably) your IP number "xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" and your username "TheRealMindChild".

The only thing I can think that triggered this was the that my last two posts were modded to -1 and 0, respectively. It was friday and I was trying to be funny. Regardless, the banning filter is obviously the biggest piece of shit since Fred Durst. Either way, the error message is largely bogus (My subnet is NOT Banned. Coworkers can still use their accounts... it is just MY account on THIS subnet. I can still post from home. I can still use an anonymous proxy. QUALITY CODING FOR YOU!). So, piss on you, poor retarded slashdot coders. Ill just use an anonymous proxy by default.
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Stupidity runs amok!

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Encryption Security

Nullsoft's Waste: Encrypted, Distributed, Mesh Net 674

Myriad writes "Nullsoft, makers of the venerable Winamp MP3 player, released today a secure, distributed mesh-like networking protocal and platform called Waste. This v1.0 beta release uses RSA (key based) and Blowfish encryption for security, and features Instant Messanging and group chat, along with file browsing, searching, and transfer. Waste has been released under the GPL, with source and binaries available here."
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Nullsoft's Waste: Encrypted, Distributed, Mesh Net

Comments Filter:
  • Gnutella (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Nermal6693 ( 622898 )
    Didn't they make Gnutella too?
    • Re:Gnutella (Score:4, Funny)

      by localghost ( 659616 ) <> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:55AM (#6065746)
      No, Ferrero [] makes Nutella [].
      • Re:Gnutella (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        As a matter of fact, Gnutella has nothing to do with Nutella, except for the similar name.

        As you already pointed out in your links, Nutella is a chocalate spread. It is a FOOD item.

        Gnutella is a SOFTWARE item. It is used for P2P (point-to-point) networking. Usually, Gnutella is used to distribute music, although it can be used to distribute any files.

        I hope this comment has been helpful in clearing the matter.
    • Re:Gnutella - YES (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes, Nullsoft originally created Gnutella then parent company AOL forced them to stop development, but the cat was out of the back and code was leaked/reverse engineered.
    • Re:Gnutella (Score:5, Informative)

      by MacJedi ( 173 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:02AM (#6065763) Homepage
      Yes, they did. However, AOL didn't like it and got it shut down within the day. Then someone (Justin Frankel?) leaked the source and the rest is history.

    • Re:Gnutella (Score:5, Informative)

      by Magila ( 138485 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:05AM (#6065774) Homepage
      Indeed, here [] is the original slashdot story. Of course AOL quickly ended development at nullsoft, it lived on after the protocol had been reverse engineered and others picked up where nullsoft left off.
    • by CrazyJim0 ( 324487 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:04AM (#6066085)
      I think hundreds or thousands of coders thought of this shit, especially when Napster got shutdown.

      I personally came across it when removing a section of my P2P anti hacking designed for Diablo 1 to be secure even without a central server.

      Interestingly enough, I was going to call my Gnutella: Dumpster

      Which is cool they're naming their software: Waste

      Lets see how it turns out
      • by elwinc ( 663074 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @10:15AM (#6067797)
        I believe the name "Waste" is a references to Thomas Pynchon's novel "The Crying of Lot 49." In the novel, W.A.S.T.E is either a hoax or a secret system for communication, and (might) stand for "We Await Silent Tristero's Empire." Here's a little quote:

        "Last night, she might have wondered what undergrounds apart from the couple she knew of communicated by WASTE system. By sunrise she could legitimately ask what undergrounds didn't....[H]ere were God knew how many citizens, deliberately choosing not to communicate by U.S. Mail. It was not an act of treason, nor possibly even of defiance. But it was a calculated withdrawal, from the life of the Republic, from its machinery. Whatever else was being denied them out of hate, indifference to the power of their vote, loopholes, simple ignorance, this withdrawal was their own, unpublicized, private. Since they could not have withdrawn into a vacuum (could they?), there had to exist the separate, silent, unsuspected world."
  • Hmmm.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by leviramsey ( 248057 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:36AM (#6065670) Journal

    AOL Time Warner (IIRC, owners of the second biggest recording company, not to mention one of the major recording studios) owns Nullsoft, which releases a program that the RIAA and MPAA will undoubtedly call a tool whose sole purpose is to illicitly distribute copyrighted works....

    A cliche regarding:

    • a left hand
    • a right hand
    • and a lack of knowledge

    ...comes to mind.

    • Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by glob ( 23034 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:57AM (#6065753) Homepage Journal
      "undoubtedly call a tool whose sole purpose is to illicitly distribute copyrighted works"

      uhh, waste is for small workgroups only ..

      WASTE is a software product and protocol that enables secure distributed communication for small (on the order of 10-50 nodes) trusted groups of users.
      it's not about p2p file sharing, rather it's a colaborative tool.

      sure, you could use to to share illegal stuff, but it's really no different in that respect to email, icq, whatever.

    • Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Daniel Phillips ( 238627 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @07:23AM (#6066516)
      AOL Time Warner (IIRC, owners of the second biggest recording company, not to mention one of the major recording studios) owns Nullsoft, which releases a program that the RIAA and MPAA will undoubtedly call a tool whose sole purpose is to illicitly distribute copyrighted works....

      That was a joke right? And the moderators who marked it "interesting" and "insightful" really meant to mark it "funny", they just hit the wrong button, right?

      In fact what we have here is a first cut at a secure distributed network presence system, something that would allow you to run an icq-like network between people you trust without being spied on by a central server. There are many reasons why one would want this: maybe *you* just want to trade copyrighted files, but *I* want to communicate securely and efficiently with my associates.

      As for why AOL lets Nullsoft do things like this, I suppose the choice is either to let them work on what they want to or lose the talent. What Nullsoft is doing is the best thing for the net, and so is the best thing for AOL in the end.
      • The Right Hand Knows (Score:5, Informative)

        by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @10:35AM (#6067964) Homepage Journal
        In fact what we have here is a first cut at a secure distributed network presence system, something that would allow you to run an icq-like network between people you trust without being spied on by a central server. There are many reasons why one would want this: maybe *you* just want to trade copyrighted files, but *I* want to communicate securely and efficiently with my associates.
        Besides which, this software isn't particularly useful for illicit file sharing. For that you need a way to get into contact with strangers who happen to have a copy of the file you want to download. The encryption features would actually seem to work against that.

        Also, this is technology that might be very useful to AOL. AIM's big drawback is that it's not very secure, and really shouldn't be used for sensitive corporate communication. (Though the engineers at my last employer used it anyway.) AOL could persuade people that are already using AIM for free to upgrade to WASTE in order to secure their communications. Not to mention the other features.

        We Await Silent Trystero's Empire!

        • by L7_ ( 645377 )
          Yes, it seems to be more of a client where you already have a trusted group of users either from real life (Say, a whole dorm hall or a bunch of co-workers) or from a presence online (Say, a whole gaming guild or software collaborators or even a little message board community) to open some of your system files to. It is a trusted way to get recommended files, be they legal or illegal.

          You don't need to be in contact with strangers if all your friends have GBs upon GBs of "shared source".
          • Your post just made me realize how useful it actually is.

            I run a small network in my apartment with my roommates, and we all have various versions of windows, and some computers are "homed" on a different domain, especially if a friend brings his work laptop over during a lan party.

            In these kind of environments, windows file sharing seems to be much more hassle than it's worth. On Win2k, it seems like it's a 10 step process just to share a folder. Even after that, it can take one or two minutes just to
    • Re:Hmmm.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by abulafia ( 7826 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @08:06AM (#6066741)
      which releases a program that the RIAA and MPAA will undoubtedly call a tool whose sole purpose is to illicitly distribute copyrighted works....

      There is no reason to call it that. It is a communication tool that tries not to leak information. I would encourage RIAA members to use it themselves, to better secure internal conversations against unintentional leakage. I'm sure "they" send files to each other via email from time to time. Isn't this better? What's not to like?

      As a long time cypherpunk, I'm glad this is here. Way back in '94, I wrote out a model of this sort of thing, but with decent routing and key exchange, and then got busy working for money. I'm glad someone is doing this, even if it doesn't work on a larger scale.

      Please flame the evil cypherpunk vision below.

  • until when (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Vej ( 199488 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:38AM (#6065675)
    Makes you wonder how long it will be until protocols/network designs are attacked on the same basis as the product derived from them. ie p2p/filesharing.

    Considering nullsoft, might be a risky move.
  • Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by harikiri ( 211017 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:39AM (#6065679)
    I haven't yet spotted any cryptographic "reviews" of this yet, but it certainly looks like an appealing platform to work with.

    Going through the documentation, I found this:

    From here []

    Note: It might be worth implementing WASTE using a subset of SSL, to avoid any concern of flaws in this protocol. Feedback is gladly accepted on any potential weaknesses of the negotiation. We have spent a decent amount of time analyzing this, and although we have found a few things that are not ideal (i.e. if you know public keys from a network, you can sniff some traffic and do an offline dictionary attack on the network name/ID), but overall it seems decent. The current implementation probably needs work, too.

    Which suggests to me that it isn't worth rushing out and developing application with *just* yet, until further reviews have occured (and the protocol has matured/evolved).

  • Five minutes later (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jacer ( 574383 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:41AM (#6065684) Homepage
    I read the article and immediately got excited. I downloaded all of the software and had it all setup and working within a few minutes. As of right now I'm living in an apartment and have no practical use, but on Monday I'm moving into my dorm room to start my summer class (bleh!) Anyway, I think this is so wonderful! I've been thinking about a secure network computing solution for my three computers when I'm at school. I have my server, workstation, and my laptop that I'd like to tie all together. The leading choice was vpn, but after playing around with this, I do think that running on my server and having the three of them connect to it, and maybe a few of my friends computers on campus, we can create a very nice, effective, small, and secure lan. Then again, after five minutes I haven't decided if the whole reinventing of the wheel is worth it. I'll probably try it out, and setup a vpn server too, and see which I like more.
    • by graveyhead ( 210996 ) < minus cat> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:24AM (#6065835)
      VPN is better if you're a gamer...

      Once you've set it up for a firewall, the f/w effectively vanishes inside the VPN. A friend and I struggled with firewall configs for years tweaking for the game of the day. Enter VPN, and now we have a private TCP network without firewalls. Any game supports that, no reconfiguration required.

      The other thing is that it is built into w2k (my gaming platform of choice) and XP (friends platform). This means you can be up and running after reading some quick instructions on setting up the server, your shares (properly!), forward one TCP port (yes, only one) from your firewall to desktop, and that's it forever.

      Add an uber-IM like Trillian, and that's all you will ever need.
      • Yeah, I had a VPN setup from work to home before, and it didn't always take kindly to the network address translation. Certian things wouldn't function, and I'm hoping that's fixed here. Also, we have a whole chunk of public addresses on campus. I could easily configure the pool to assign some of them, and not worry about the nat, but then there is always a chance that there will be an address conflict. As a former net admin before coming back to school, I can tell you that I don't take too kindly to ro
  • by scrod ( 136965 )
    while you can. Remember what happened when they first released Gnutella? If I recall, AOL forced them to pull it within hours (though it was already completely reverse-engineered almost immediately afterward).
    • by Farley Mullet ( 604326 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:12AM (#6065796)

      +4 RTFA []! more like it.

      And I blockquote:

      WASTE is a software product and protocol that enables secure distributed communication for small (on the order of 10-50 nodes) trusted groups of users.
      So this isn't really a thing like gnutella. It's an enterprise product. As other posters have noted, it could conceivably be used to share (AOL-TW) copyrighted works, but that doesn't seem to be anywhere near it's main purpose. Heck, AOL is probably releasing the core technology as OSS to get the community to shake it down for bugs, in anticipation of releasing a commercial product built on top of the protocol. Kinda like how Apple has worked on open source technologies like zeroconf, and released commercial products like rendezvous built on the technology.
  • by rmlane ( 589573 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:43AM (#6065693)

    Designed for small groups of people (up to 50)

    It allows easy colloboration across firewalls, and only one user inside the firewall is required to allow all users inside access to the mesh.

    Each link is encrypted, but each message is decrypted and re-encrypted at each hop of the mesh, so you have to trust all of the nodes. It's also very hard to drop a node onc it is trusted, as each node shares public keys around to make sure all nodes have all public keys. Initial connection to the mesh requires manual key exchange. PITA, but moderatley secure.

    All network traffic is encrypted, it will flood each mesh link with a minimum amount of bandwidth to foil traffic analysis.

    • Key exchange (Score:5, Interesting)

      by yem ( 170316 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:48AM (#6066182) Homepage

      "Initial connection to the mesh requires manual key exchange. PITA, but moderatley secure."

      IIRC, key exchange is where most encryption schemes fall down. If this ever takes off I'd guess 99% of users will trade keys over plain ol unencrypted SMTP.

      Nice summary though - this really does look interesting.

  • by BitHive ( 578094 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:44AM (#6065695) Homepage
    That's W A S T E, not 'Waste'.
    • by IntlHarvester ( 11985 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:28AM (#6065847) Journal
      Above post was not at all offtopic. Crying of Lot 49 is a good nerd book, so go read it.

      In the book, W.A.S.T.E is an underground postal system that allowed people to exchange messages without the authorities finding out.
      • And I doubt that's a coincidence either considering that's exactly what the protocol seems to do.

        Now I've never read the book, but I'd say in an underground postal system every person in the system has to be trusted. Much like this protocol -- each node in the network needs to be trusted.

        You have to build your own little underground network with a few trusted friends. This reminds me a lot of the pirate BBS days ... if you wanted access to the 'private' or 'elite' (we didn't use such silliness as 31337 ;) file sections, you had to know the sysop.

        This system allowed for only quality 'warez' files because everyone who was allowed to trade files had to be trusted, and therefore they weren't going to damage their reputation by sending crap like you get on P2P nowadays like incomplete packages or stuff that said it was one thing, but really was another thing. Back when trading pirated software was more like a gentlemen's agreement and not the 'o-D4Y \/\/4R3Z!!!!' crap pimply-faced teenagers with nothing better to do do today.

        On the other hand, one has to think, 'Who needs it?' Most of us who were in that community back then have merged in with the Open Source community today and if we trade software at all it's with a CD burner over a cup of coffee. ;) OTOH, maybe this is just the thing for people like us.

        Just a thought...

  • Waste? (Score:2, Redundant)

    by arvindn ( 542080 )
    Why would anyone call their product waste? I thought it must be an acronym, since they've spelt it in all caps, but they haven't said what it stands for.
    • Go read Pynchon (Score:3, Interesting)

      by billstewart ( 78916 )
      In "The Crying of Lot 49" [], which is a nice short fast spacy read, there's a plot thread about competing mail services and a conspiracy that conducts its private communications in a way that, if you refer to the name of the product as "waste" rather than "W A S T E", indicates you're clearly not part of their group. There are also email systems called "Trystero" for similar reasons, and it makes looking at post office boxes in Scandinavia quite silly even without sampling the local agricultural products.
  • Is Groove doomed? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by misuba ( 139520 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:49AM (#6065726) Homepage
    Resolved that: Gnutella aside, this technology is really a direct shot at Groove Networks, the company founded by Ray Ozzie of Lotus Notes fame to sell P2P-derived technology to small and large business.

    • by reaper20 ( 23396 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:30AM (#6065854) Homepage

      a) Groove was actually used by anybody and
      b) It wasn't such horrible software

      then I would say yes. Unfortunately Groove is a solution looking for a problem, and how many people get excited when you hear "designed by the guy that designed Notes."
      • Re:Is Groove doomed? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by misuba ( 139520 )
        Well, that begs the question: what problem is Waste designed to solve? Who will use it?

        It seems to me that secure instant messaging and peer-to-peer file transfer between members of a distributed workgroup serves a real need. I can't imagine that Nullsoft would have developed this unless they saw a need themselves. Other solutions might technically already exist, but they don't appear to be as easy to install. (In that respect I could be wrong about VPN; I haven't looked into it.)

        It'll be interesting to s
  • Beep! (Score:2, Funny)

    Thanks for the link!

    On their site I found a program called Beep. It makes noises on keyboard/mouse input :-)

    It gets annoying after a while, but it is 'cute' enough to impress my girlfriend. And that matters as much as keeping my RedHat system up2date. LOL
    • Re:Beep! (Score:4, Funny)

      by millwall ( 622730 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:02AM (#6065766)

      "[...] It makes noises on keyboard/mouse input :-) [...] it is 'cute' enough to impress my girlfriend."

      Where do you find a girl that could be impressed that easily? No need for fancy restaurants or expensive gifts, just type on your keyboard and she goes mental.... nice!
  • well... (Score:2, Funny)

    by inkedmn ( 462994 )
    as long as it has those uber-bitchin' skins, i'm in.
  • 1337 (Score:5, Funny)

    by houston_pt ( 514463 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:13AM (#6065801) Journal
    Listen port
    Listening on port 1337

    Somehow I think this is a very well chosen port... ;-)
  • by Isosonys ( 589846 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:18AM (#6065823)
    Did nullsoft do this to thumb its nose at Aol? It was released May 28th 4 years after Aol paid a nice sum to buy Nullsoft.
  • by malakai ( 136531 ) * on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:29AM (#6065853) Journal
    put on your conspiracy hats...

    Think of it this way, these guys know probably better than anyone else NOT on the AOL IM team, just how much of IM conversations are monitored, logged, mined for information, media metrics...etc.

    Not to mention, they work in that environment, they prolly want to be able to say "god damn, our executive VP is a bitch" and not have some network engineer provide a log documenting that conversation later.

    Yeah, i wish it scalled, but wtf, its opensource. Go make it scale. For now, 10-50 is plenty for most groups of online friends.

    Personally, I'd loved to see technology like Pastry [] get hacked into it.

  • Linux port ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by theefer ( 467185 ) * on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:33AM (#6065861) Homepage
    How many minutes before we can see the first Linux port (it works under W$, FreeBSD and MacOS X) ?
    • Re:Linux port ? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Kompressor ( 595513 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:12AM (#6066100)
      Closer than you think...

      I haven't used C in 3 years and I managed to get it to compile with a bit of hacking. As for stability, your guess is as good as mine...

      diff -r waste/Makefile.posix waste_port/Makefile.posix
      < RSAOBJS = md5c.o nn.o prime.o r_random.o rsa.o
      > RSAOBJS = rsa/md5c.o rsa/nn.o rsa/prime.o rsa/r_random.o rsa/rsa.o
      < CXXFLAGS = -O2 $(DEBUGFLAG) -pipe -march=pentiumpro
      < CFLAGS = -O2 $(DEBUGFLAG) -pipe -march=pentiumpro
      > CXXFLAGS = -O2 $(DEBUGFLAG) -pipe
      > CFLAGS = -O2 $(DEBUGFLAG) -pipe
      diff -r waste/connection.cpp waste_port/connection.cpp
      < if (::getsockname(m_socket,(struct sockaddr *)&sin,(socklen_t *)&len)) return 0;
      > if (::getsockname(m_socket,(struct sockaddr *)&sin,(unsigned socklen_t *)&len)) return 0;
      diff -r waste/listen.cpp waste_port/listen.cpp
      < int s = accept(m_socket, (struct sockaddr *) &saddr, (socklen_t *)&length);
      > int s = accept(m_socket, (struct sockaddr *) &saddr, (unsigned socklen_t *)&length);
      diff -r waste/srvmain.cpp waste_port/srvmain.cpp
      < #include "md5.h"
      > #include "rsa/md5.h"
      diff -r waste/xfers.cpp waste_port/xfers.cpp
      < if (!RemoveDirectory(s)) break;
      > // The below seems to be from the win32 API. I'll just comment it out and hope it doesn't break anything.
      > // Jordan R. Urie
      > // if (!RemoveDirectory(s)) break;
      • Re:Linux port ? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Bob Uhl ( 30977 )
        According to Microsoft [], RemoveDirectory() removes the directory specifed in a C string. The directory must be empty, exactly as with the POSIX rmdir(). The return value is 0 if unsuccessful, non-zero otherwise; this is the opposite of rmdir(). So, it's better to replace that snippet with:

        if (rmdir(s)) break;

      • Re:Linux port ? (Score:3, Informative)

        by grazzy ( 56382 )
        This code actually does work, with this patch you are able to both transfer files, connect, and chat.

        The tricky thing is to set up the server properly.

        The easiest way is like someone else pointed out to make a new profile in waste, (copy your own* files out of the way first).

        Then, add your public SERVER key to your public-key list in the windows-client. And add your public-windows-client-key to the list of keys of the server.. (default.pr3).

        Dont forget to NOT use a network name ( or make sure
  • AOL Time Warner... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tolarianacademy ( 580638 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:41AM (#6065886) Homepage
    ...owns Nullsoft, (as already mentioned by leviramsy) but an interesting theory had been presented to me, suggesting that AOL Time Warner has for some time been planning to trump Apple's iTunes store. Maybe they are planning to power such a service with peer networking? I have never beleived this personally because AOL Time Warner would just as soon want to have everyone surfing from the same servers anyhow, and a decentralized system would only tax their bandwidth more. Maybe...maybe they will release such a service that utilizes both p2p transfers in combination with traditional server-to-client transfers, and maybe use it as an advertising platform for AOL, giving AOL users better functionality, or maybe even restricting server-to-client transfers to AOL users once the service becomes popular. Does anyone else think this idea is bogus? I find it hard to beleive, but I can't figure out how else Nullsoft could be /allowed/ to create this new service.
    • by afidel ( 530433 )
      If I remember correctly Justin's contract basically gave him complete freedom from luser management as long as he didn't do anything illegal. Besides he got so much dough from AOL that he could just work on it at home and release it, though it would lack the Nullsoft name that obviously gets it more press. This would be pretty worthless from AOL/TW's perspective, for that they would probably want something like BitTorrent with user authentication.
  • by infonography ( 566403 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:43AM (#6065895) Homepage
    Here is the source [] for those who are wondering what it's all about.

  • "Waste" is such a user-friendly name. NOT!

    Another example of the marketing skill of technically minded people?
  • by cyberm_acc ( 676979 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @04:10AM (#6065980)
    I'm suprised no one has mentioned the obvious. This is a terrible blow to the RIAA and the all the people who have been trying to sue filesharers into oblivion.

    There are two uses I see for this:
    There are going to be groups of people dedicated to one theme, for example, Horror Movies, or Horror Movies with mutant bees, sharing all their Horror Movies, you will need a certain ammount of Horror Movie Uploads for Downloads and noone will ever be to know you had Queen Bee 1-3.

    If you replace Horror with new release you get lots of small miniDonkeys, many interconnected and unstoppable.

    I'm convinced this is a revolution in filesharing because it solves the two biggest Problems filesharing has, crappy downloads and getting sued.
    The downloads will be of really good quality beacause you will be sharing with friends of people you know from chatting and if the put crap in their upload directory they won't be one of your cirle of friends much longer.

    Getting sued is obvious, noone will be able to tell what you are doing (the might be able to guess that all those people on cable are not running a vpn yet) as just your circle of friends know. There is still the possibility that one of your friends is a traitor but i would call that a rare chance.
  • Getting it to work. (Score:3, Informative)

    by commonchaos ( 309500 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @04:12AM (#6065983) Homepage Journal
    Looks like you not only have to trade public keys with your friend, but somebody needs to have WASTE on a public IP with port 1337 open.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @04:50AM (#6066064)
    Is it called wasted ?
  • by Eminence ( 225397 ) <akbrandt@g m a i l . com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:15AM (#6066102) Homepage

    WASTE is something that is indeed very useful for small company or teams (especially dispersed teams) in larger organizations. In many places one or another IM system is being used to communicate with team members. Over ICQ or AOL contracts and employment conditions are discussed, remarks about contractors and clients are passed etc. That is a huge security leak if you look at it from a certain prospective, especially for some profiles of companies like small consulting firms with employees regularly using clients networks. WASTE is a simple to use and free method of closing that leak.

    I know at least two small companies that should adopt WASTE immediately and I would advise them to do so. One is a PR company with 2-10 people offices around Europe, where ICQ is frequently used as a discussion medium. Other is a small consulting company. Someone eavesdropping on their ICQ chats could seriously damage both of them.

  • by tomstdenis ( 446163 ) <tomstdenis@gmail . c om> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:18AM (#6066109) Homepage
    Oh darn. Looks like they used some homebrew crap for their bignum stuff.

    Common LibTomMath is like a billion times faster [not to mention very well tested]....

    Plug plug plug!

  • Looks great but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by randomErr ( 172078 ) <ervin,kosch&gmail,com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:29AM (#6066139) Homepage Journal
    The software looks great and installed like a dream but How can I test it?

    How can I point it at a node that will allow me to try it out? I ask this because what if someone is on the internet and needs to connect to me network. How do I point them to my network?
    • by tamagen ( 181519 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @07:29AM (#6066550) Journal
      You need at least one other client running somewhere.

      You both need to enter each other's public key into your client to get started. This step shows that you "trust" one another.

      Anyone else who wants to join your "network" must also enter one of your existing network members' public key into their client and have that existing member enter the new user's public key into *their* client. This step automatically makes the new person "trusted" by all the other members of the network - the important part is that you don't have to explicitly swap public keys with EVERYONE - just with one member of the network. The client does the rest once you connect to the network - see below.

      Now, to get started and initially connect to someone's machine, enter their hostname or IP address (not their "username") into the "Network" window. This primes your client - it will then discover all it needs to know about the other members of the network, since by default, each client will be broadcasting discovery information (usernames, hostnames, public keys).

      The "Browser" window shows all the users in the network, but currently ONLY if they are sharing one or more files. So, get each person who joins the network to share at least a test file so that they will always appear in everyone's "Browser" window.

      Right-click on any names in the browser window to start interacting with them.

  • by JakusMinimus ( 49854 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:13AM (#6068237) Journal
    a link to the cleaned up code i am running: clean.tgz []

    my server's public key
    WASTE_PUBLIC_KEY 20 2048
    ABB44E9339FC6CE16A3C04A9D828AD3F6C78A 308FF66442E35B3F69C2CFC
    7AAF98FFFCE94A95E074C6B8F B8F46105A7575A5AB9CFBF9112E1AE13C02
    B7CFDA578CD7B 114A64E6B18D9F857BD982E741D2A214EE52878580B51DA
    4 081980FA0923244FA59D05FE314347384D23DBD58C736D71D6 D490EFD4D
    E3587D463D351236280BCAD18DD40F12D9F0DAF 6C3C88CAB2243A21B7A8D
    B0C89075685E12052263C6DD9EA 6809967A7D354037EF00F078E5E298DFC
    2E89E43AF161FCF B30B2B41873F0BB34706B4C8EF749B6A3E45135F9F08D
    FAF 6F684E29787ECE5FB0DFEBABF904C11327CE085F735C0D7E08 DE811B3
    04CEC56742090AA7A714497B9CEF1C35000301000 1
    server name is (you may have guessed from the public key ... )
    • If you are using gcc 3.2 as I am on Debian Unstable, you will probably need this patch:

      --- waste/Makefile.posix 2003-05-29 11:58:45.000000000 -0400
      +++ waste/ 2003-05-29 14:00:34.000000000 -0400
      @@ -8,7 +8,7 @@

      wastesrv: $(OBJS) $(RSAOBJS)
      - $(CC) $(DEBUGFLAG) -pthread -o wastesrv $(OBJS) $(RSAOBJS)
      + $(CC) $(DEBUGFLAG) -pthread -o wastesrv $(OBJS) $(RSAOBJS) -lstdc++

      rm -f $(OBJS) $(RSAOBJS) wastesrv
  • by NerveGas ( 168686 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:33AM (#6068395)

    While on the surface, this might seem like a reinvention of IP tunnelling and VPN's, there are a couple of important features bundled in that set it apart:

    1. It turns each node into a router. While you can establish a VPN with other tool kits, you still have to enable and configure the routing manually.

    2. It's entirely user-land - it's a standalone program that a user can plop on their machine and be on their way.

    The best part about it is that you can get through firewalls. The worst part about it is that you can get through firewalls.

    Most people are pretty polar in their opinions of firewalls, with most of those people seeing them a fascist mechanism to control what they can see. In some (perhaps most) cases, that can be true. However, firewalls are much more than that: They can (and often are) used to protect YOU, the clueless end-user, from the other bad people on the Internet.

    After I clear out counters on firewall rules, it's not uncommon to see 10-20 (sometimes more) incoming attacks within 5 seconds.

    So, this will be great for letting people browse the web from work. On the other hand, it will expose them to propagation of worms and attacks which would have otherwise been caught by the firewall.

    Is this a good program? Overall, I think that it's a good thing that NullSoft created it. We simply need to realize that with all of the benefits it brings, it will also bring a few negatvies with it.

  • by Str8Dog ( 240982 ) * on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:38AM (#6068435) Homepage Journal
    I threw up a forum for people who would like to list their public nodes here []
  • by ntk ( 974 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @04:27PM (#6071068) Homepage
    I guess AOL found out again...
    • Well, all the pages about WASTE are 404 now, WASTE also disappeared from the list of software made by Nullsoft. But - as I said already here - it's already irrelevant, as the GPL-ed source is already mirrored around the world and will be worked on. Soon we will see ports and mutations of WASTE everywhere.

      Looks like the guys at Nullsoft learned from Gnutella...

  • Found a Mirror (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:16PM (#6071503)
    while perusing the winamp forums, I found a mirror:

    waste installer []
    waste source []
  • Waste Mirror (Score:3, Informative)

    by Freaek ( 11909 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @06:46PM (#6072215) Homepage

    Waste is here []

    Contents of the file are as follows;

    waste - network architecture.htm

    waste - network architecture_files
    waste - security model and implementation.htm

    This will be up until it's not. Enjoy! :)

    --Pete (peteg [at] sifnt dot net)

"I've seen it. It's rubbish." -- Marvin the Paranoid Android


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Comment Re:... lol. (Score 1) 609

...a vain, paranoid demagogue, who knows that if his people ever come in contact with the outside world and realize that the rest of the world is mostly full of nice, reasonable people... they'll all rise up and murder him in his sleep.

Are you talking about Glen Beck?

A Free Market is only free for the people who can afford it.

Comment Re:Was 9/11 an invasion? (Score 0, Flamebait) 409

I just wasted my time reading that post and what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Comment Re:Plato (Score 5, Insightful) 532

I think what you are referring to is Plato's "forms". The objects we encounter merely participate in the -ness of the perfect forms which reside in what is playfully (or pejoratively) called Plato's Heaven. So my chair is a chair because it has the property "chairness", that is, there is a perfect chair that resides outside of our perceptual reality that lends its form to my chair. It is a bit more detailed but that is the gist. Aristotle was right to abandon it.
And as for the comments below about the distinction between philosophy and physics, both Descartes and Newton were considered philosophers. Most contemporary philosophy, though, relies heavily on the natural sciences to support or confute philosophical theories. Philosophy of mind works with cognitive science, philosophy of language with various natural sciences, and metaphysics with chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc... I prefer Wittgenstein's definition of philosophy from the Tractatus. He calls philosophy an "activity" that is meant to sharpen and hone the critical thinking necessary in scientific inquiry. There are many cases where philosophical theories have been supported by scientific investigation just as many have been thrown out because certain scientific hypotheses do not support them.

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Comment Re:Class warfare? and Constitutionality (Score 1) 10

Would you have the same approach if the issue at hand were, say, slavery? Freedom of speech? The PATRIOT act? Do you care about the rule of law at all? Or just when it might be convenient?

Yes I care about the rule of law. Which is why I'd defer ruling on the unclear Constitutionality of a law to those people we have assigned the role of determining whether a law is Constitutional. I do not think it is a transgression of the law to posit questions of Constitutionality to those people. As a matter of fact, I wish every law had to undergo Constitutional review by those qualified to do so prior to enactment.

And even if it did, that's no excuse to purposefully break the rules.

You're assuming that the rules are purposefully being broken. I think the rules are unclear and need to be re-evaluated.

I also feel that we'd be better served if the State Constitution were specifically amended to allow progressive tax rates. But if we can establish that they are legal under current law, then there's no need to.

Comment Re:Class warfare? and Constitutionality (Score 1) 10

It's not an event. You're question-begging. It's always been ruled property in this state, and NOT an event.

And the same was true of many other states, until they ruled differently.

It's never done so before, ever, in the history of mankind. But keep dreaming.

I point to the 1950s and 1960s in the US as a counter-example.

Spoken like a true socialist.

Class warfare exists when one class is actuated to harm another class. That is class warfare. Obviously.

When you have a system such as ours that promotes equality of opportunity, and then also on top of that try to squeeze in a perverse concept like equality of outcome which requires harming one class for the benefit of others, that's when you get class warfare. Obviously.

Too many uses of the word "obviously" when that word does not apply. Obvious to you, maybe, but that is only because you have a specific set of beliefs -- which are not universal, by the way.

Shrug. I use words that are appropriate. Always. If you would prefer that instead of saying "it promotes class warfare" I say "it promotes the majority to make the upper class disfavored, taking from them for the majority's own benefit," we could do that, but it means the same thing: it's just slightly more specific and uses more words.

You choose to ignore the entire point -- and I'll point out in addition, it is quite clear that you choose words *you* think are appropriate, whether or not under general usage for those terms, those words would be appropriate. Class warfare exists as a function of class disparity. Those things that increase class disparity increase class conflict, and hence class warfare. If you're going to invoke the term "class warfare" please be aware of the historical context of the word, and understand why it's not a valid term for this case.

Once the facts get out -- that the Court has many times ruled this very thing unconstitutional, that it will almost surely lead to an income tax for far more people, and so on -- its support will drop dramatically. That's how these things work. It's like with the health insurance bill: you ask people generally, "should everyone have health insurance?" and people say yes. You get into specifics and people say no.

Whoa... back up here. Two things: 1. it is absolutely clear that the Court's past rulings on this issue were based on an invalid interpretation. This does not mean that the issue is Constitutional, just that the precedents you refer to do not apply, and the case must be made on first principles and other precedent, not on the precedent you refer to. 2. That health insurance example you give is very flawed. As a counter, when people were asked, do you support the health care legislation" the answer is no... but when asked if they supported specific measures, the answer was yes.

That's the real point here: to distract from the abject failures of the Democratic Party.

I'll agree that there have been abject failures by the Democratic Party. But I will not agree that the point of the Initiative is to distract from them. The point of the Initiative is to pass a progressive income tax, which would help correct some of the problems.

The system ALREADY HAS ruled on that. Many times. You liberals keep leaving out that fact.

The previous rulings of the system were based on a precedent ruling that has been overturned. You conservatives keep leaving out that fact. The current Constitutional objection has not been truly tested in court.

But that is precisely what she did, increasing spending a whopping 33% in her first term

Source, please... this site cites a 14% increase from 2003 to 2007, discounting the estimated 1.2B on health insurance costs that were reclassed (even with the 1.2B added back in, still under 20%). Given our biennial budgets, how is it possible that she enacted a 33% increase from FY04 to FY05? Did we really have that big a drop in FY04 from FY03 spending, that would cause the FY04 number to be 25% less than the FY05 number?

These people aren't fit to run a lemonade stand, let alone a state.

Good thing a state is not the same thing as a lemonade stand.

Comment Re:Class warfare? and Constitutionality (Score 1) 10

But they ignore the fact that between 1930 and 1933, the Constitution was modified to classify income as property,

I've read the amendment in question (14). Nowhere does it classify the act of receiving income as property.

But since it's done on certain cumulative annual levels of income, it's so obviously a myth that the only way you can think otherwise is if you WANT to. The facts cannot lead you to that conclusion.

I disagree, and think it would be just as valid to say that the only way you can conceive of the act of receiving income as property is if you WANT TO believe that -- the idea that an event can be considered property is ludicrous. Whether the rate is based on cumulative annual income, or net worth, or anything else is immaterial... since an event itself does not belong to anyone, and is not capable of belonging to anyone. Therefore the limitation of equitable taxation does not apply, so we can then turn to cumulative annual amounts to determine taxation rate.

It's literally being sold as a way to get less taxes for you, and to take it out of another class of people. That is, again, the definition of class warfare.

Hm. That's not what I understand to be the definition of class warfare. Class conflict is the struggle between different socioeconomic classes due to different social positions. Some would, rightly in my opinion, say that the status quo embodies class conflict since it promotes the concentration of wealth and social inequity. It's a hard case to make, that a progressive tax initiative promotes class warfare when the class conflict is already present, and a progressive tax system would potentially ameliorate some of the social stratification that causes class conflict.

Seems to me that calling it "class warfare" is a nice sound byte, but doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Things that promote class warfare are things that promote class conflict -- things that promote social inequity between classes. I think maybe "populism" would be a better term for this than "class warfare", though I understand the desire to use the "class warfare" term by the Republicans, who are trying to raise the spectres of Socialism, Communism, and Marxist revolution in some kind of inapt ideological battle against Democrats.

The middle class will not pay more taxes, so I don't know why you include them in this. And there's not "so much support" from upper-class business owners. There's no evidence of that whatsoever. You'll find some super-rich who support it, but they are a tiny minority of the people who will be paying more taxes.

I guess we'll wait and see what the polls say. Apparently 57% of Republicans polled in WA support the initiative. Considering that fewer than 20% of business owners would see their taxes increased under the initiative, looks like you've got a hard sell.

Eventually this will likely go up the Courts for adjudication. Hopefully the matter will be settled then, once and for all. In the meantime, we can focus on the initiative itself, and not get bogged down in the Constitutionality issue, since we have a system set up to rule on that. That issue is really a red herring from where I sit...

Comment Class warfare? and Constitutionality (Score 1) 10

Hey Pudge,

I read through the complete text of the initiative -- do you think eliminating the business and occupation tax for 80% of business owners really falls under the umbrella of "class warfare"?

And as for Constitutionality... I've been searching for any legal analysis of the Initiative, and have found none... just blurbs from people on both sides... notably from Bill Gates Sr who expects it to be upheld since the '33 decision was based on 'obsolete legal theory'.

Do you know where people can find better legal analysis of the Initiative?

Also, I was wondering about whether the bill is really class warfare. Are all progressive tax systems inherently class warfare in your opinion? And if it's class warfare, why is there so much support for this initiative among middle and upper-class business owners?

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