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The Dating Game: Should Christians be Kissing Before Marriage?

kissIt’s one of my most passionate topics (no pun intended)–the debate over America’s system of recreational dating.   I’ll say up front, this is a topic I am burdened about as it relates to Christians; many find my stance absurd, and I would fully expect that unbelievers would as well, so if your comment is simply an attack or jab, please refrain.  You’re welcome to disagree, but only in the vein of sincere discussion.

I was a victim of the dating system, as probably most of you were; so unfortunately I speak from experience, not from a “prudish, weird, unattainable model that only middle eastern countries embrace.  I dated…A LOT.  I wasn’t the poor girl that got left out of the dating system, lest you think I’m just bitter 😉  If I’m bitter, it’s because I was fed a lie from a culture that doesn’t care about purity, truth and how dating affects  marriage.  And I will do all I can to stop that lie that continues to perpetuate and rob our children, and often brings shame to the picture of Christ and his bride.

In keeping with last week’s post about being “set apart”, Christians need to be asking ourselves why that difference hasn’t shown up in our approach to finding a marriage partner.

I blog about this topic for ONE reason:  because I ache over the flippancy believers have toward preparing their children for marriage.  I think we have embraced a system that is not of God, and worse,  defend it to those who would dare question it.  I think it’s one of Satan’s biggest knee-slappers, and I think the modern system of dating  has a lot to do with why our marriages are failing.  I want Christians to think from a biblical as well as logical perspective in the hopes of saving their children from unnecessary tragedy–PURE CONCERN.  That’s why I write it.

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169 Responses to “The Dating Game: Should Christians be Kissing Before Marriage?”

  1. missy says:

    I agree with you 100%. Every time we “date” of even have a close friendship with the opposite sex, we give away pieces of our hearts. Then when we marry, we can’t offer our whole heart to our spouse. Then you get into comparing your spouse to all of the people you’ve dated. It’s not fair to him/her.

  2. No! Kissing (other than a family peck on the cheek/lips) is part of the s*xual experience. It is usually the first step before it happens, although it does not always lead to that, it sure does add the spark needed! ;o)

    My hope is that my kids will not kiss before marriage.

    It also drives me nuts that we sit and watch TV/movies of actors kissing (and more)…WHY IS THAT OK????? Getting paid to preform an “act” is called prostitution in some situations. Just seems to be a double standard to me.

    • Drew's dad says:

      Open your bible and start reading.

      • Josh says:

        But I can’t seem to find anywhere in the bible that condones it. I don’t feel like I@m partaking in a sexual act when I kiss my girlfriend. I feel like I’m saying’ I love you, and I’m going to show it to you in a way that I show to no one else.’ I say ‘I love you’ to a lot of my friends who are girls, but that’s a different kind of love. And I give gifts to them on special occasions. And I sometimes spend time with them (going for coffee, etc) to catch up. But doing all those things only leaves kissing reserved for my girlfriend. and then we’re leaving sexual acts for marriage. I don’t see the problem biblically.

        • TianaMarie says:

          I feel the exact same way. I’ve never kissed anyone before but I’ve met this guy and we’ve been talking for 6 months now. He’s wanted to date but we haven’t taken it too far, too soon. In the time we’ve become best friends! Why is it wrong? The Bible doesn’t say so, that I’ve found anyway.

          • @NIKZAK – I think there is a LOT of assuming going on in this comment. First of all, it was not “ok” that David looked at a woman lustfully. It was sin from the start. Secondly, going into a bar does not 99% mean you’ll get drunk. I’m in bars all the time with my friends and drink water – it actually makes me 99% stand out. And kissing will “eventually lead to adultery”….I have kissed many a boy and can assure you it has not led to adultery. That is an extremely over-reaching statement. God gives us minds to use our own wisdom and judgement. I don’t think this is a black and white topic. I think people should be led by their own convictions on this one. If you feel it’s ok to kiss in your relationship, go for it. If you feel convicted, you probably should refrain.

        • NikZak says:

          But if we read the Bible then we see that in the old testament it was ok to look at women lustfully. King David looked at a woman lustfully and David ended up purposefully sending her husband to war so that he would get killed(Then he could legally marry her). God saw that and realized that the reason King David committed a sin(the killing of the woman’s husband) is because he looked a woman lustfully. Just like in the Bible it doesn’t say it is a sin to walk into a pub/bar. But walking into a pub will 99% mean you will get drunk (which is a sin). Same goes with kissing, it may not be a sin but every time you kiss your desire to kiss her again increases. This will eventually lead to adultery.

          • Julius says:

            But if we read the Bible then we see that in the old testament it was ok to look at women lustfully. King David looked at a woman lustfully and David ended up purposefully sending her husband to war so that he would get killed(Then he could legally marry her). God saw that and realized that the reason King David committed a sin(the killing of the woman’s husband) is because he looked a woman lustfully. Just like in the Bible it doesn’t say it is a sin to walk into a pub/bar. But walking into a pub will 99% mean you will get drunk (which is a sin). Same goes with kissing, it may not be a sin but every time you kiss your desire to kiss her again increases. This will eventually lead to adultery.

            to NikZak: So with your pub analogy are you saying that if a couple kiss, then they will have a 99% of having sex? That is ridiculous. Even if you say kissing in a relationship will “most likely” lead to sex, the position is still absurd. So more than half of all couples that have ever kissed end up having sex? Probably not. I will concede to you that kissing between couples may increase the likelihood of having sex. However, the difference will be very small. If you are arguing that we should prevent anything that increases the likelihood of unmarried couples having sex, then you should also start arguing for removing dating or any contact at all between unmarried couples. In fact, you should start arguing for why we should follow the Taliban. This would mean that men and women would be segregated in public places. A man and a woman would not be allowed to meet privately outside of marriage. This would mean that there is no chance of premarital sex! Or how about this idea: accept the fact that there is a very small amount of risk in dating and premarital kissing and get over it.

            • Chrissywissy87 says:

              I believe her point is not that kissing will lead to physical sexual activity and physical adultery, but that it would lead to lust which is adultery in the heart. I see the point but I am still undecided.

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  3. Amanda says:

    This is something that has been on my mind more and more lately. I never thought much about it until a friend of mine’s teenage daughter got her first boyfriend. These are Christians, and my friend has said that she fully expects them to kiss but reminds her daughter ad nauseam “no sex before marriage!” It suddenly occurred to me how silly that is – yes, by all means, engage in foreplay! Just don’t go all the way! And maybe some people think kissing isn’t foreplay, but I think all of us married ladies know what our husbands have in mind when they roll over in bed to kiss us (obviously excluding the goodnight “peck” here). So, I think I will have to teach my children that kissing should be saved; it’s beautiful in the proper context, but it’s like playing with matches when your goal is to remain pure.

    • Julius says:

      Dating would be “playing with matches,” by your own reasoning if you choose to argue that way. Dating increases the chances of sex, so that should be forbidden also?

      Also, maybe all your husband might have on his mind is sex when he kisses. However, it is extremely wrong to assume that all people will have sex as their sole intention when kissing someone. I guess kissing is no longer a romantic sign of love. A kiss is only “foreplay,” as you put it. The only thing a kiss is is a precursor to sex.

  4. Quinn says:

    As a girl who was told “try before you buy,” I agree with you and your commenters 100%!! I have baggage and my husband just doesn’t understand sometimes.

    Since my children are still young, I haven’t given this too much consideration, but I have an unmarried sister whose dating has begun to prompt dialogue between my husband and me.

    She is a Christian and thinks no kissing is silly. However I can’t help but notice that even though she told her current BF she was waiting until marriage, the “making out” still prompted him to go for it.

    My thinking is where do you draw the line? To use a delicate analogy: Are we going to be satisfied with smelling chocolate bar? Licking it? Just a nibble? No, we want to eat the whole thing!!!! When I’m on a diet, the safe thing to do is to keep it out of sight lest I be tempted.

    Something else on my mind because of her is the system of choosing a person that you are interested in, become attached to enough to introduce them to your family who doesn’t approve and requires you to break it off. And the heartbreak that comes along with that (and awkwardness or disobedience.) Seems backwards to me.

    Thanks for bringing this topic to our attention.

  5. Mommaof10 says:

    Do *I* kiss anyone other than my husband? Should I? No!

    So, I teach my children that to be pure their spouse is the one to receive their kisses, both *before* and during marriage.

    Why would we practice unfaithfulness before marriage and then expect it during marriage?

    • Julius says:

      Do you become romantically attached to anyone except for your spouse while you are married? Well, you shouldn’t. I am not a believer, but Jesus does instruct that “anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). Therefore, if you are saying that you would be cheating if you kissed another man before marriage, Jesus also considered it cheating if you became romantically attached to another person during marriage. You are saying that even before you become married that actions can count as cheating to your future spouse (you said this when you referenced kissing both after and before marriage). This would mean that if one were to become romantically attached to another before marriage and that person did not marry the other but ended up marrying a third person, the original would have been cheating on their spouse. Have you ever had a crush on someone other than your current spouse? By YOUR own logic and admittance, you cheated on your husband. Or you can accept the fact that things that happen before a marriage do not matter. Where is it contained in the Gospels where Jesus specifically instructs that if you should feel romantically inclined to someone while not married but then marry someone else that you have cheated on your spouse just as if you had been married to your spouse at the time you had been romantically inclined to the other?

      • Courtney says:

        Considering the fact that dating as we know it did not exist until the invention of the automobile and that in Jesus’ time marriages were often arranged and occurred between a young virgin and an older (but not necessarily old) man with an established career and a means to care for her and their children, such a specific condemnation of romantic relationships would have sat in the Bible for nearly 2000 years with no one having the ability to understand it. Furthermore, not all Biblical commands for Christian living are restricted to the four gospels. The gospels take up a very small portion of the Bible. All Biblical commands are considered to be from God whether or not they came from Jesus’ lips, and the only commands from Jesus’ lips which are held in higher regard than other Biblical commands are those which make certain aspects of Old Testament Law obsolete following the crucifixion, particularly those relating to dietary laws, sacrifices, and Sabbath observations.

        There is nothing about dating in the Bible because it is unique to our culture. There is also nothing about kissing or any other signs of affection between a dating couple because dating couples did not exist in Biblical times. There is also nothing in the Bible that specifically denounces what happened at Enron, but try finding a Christian who will not define it as a type of theft and dishonesty and then condemn the actions of Enron’s executives under verses about theft and dishonesty. Many Christians use the same logic when it comes to kissing. It is not addressed in the Bible, but we know the purpose of kissing is to show romantic affection, and we know that even looking at a woman lustfully is supposed to be reserved for marriage, so we thereby extend that to cover kissing since it is the result of lust and often (but by no means always) leads to sex. I don’t know about you, but I would not want to be kissed by someone who does not have lustful feelings toward me. Such a kiss would be rather empty and misleading. However, since we are not to lust after anyone, a chaste kiss like what you might give a family member is presumably the only thing that is permissible according to Scripture. Some Christians define this “chaste kiss” as a quick peck without making out, some say kissing is fine, and some would prefer to abstain from it altogether. Each is a personal choice, and we really do not have a right to say that kissing or not kissing is morally wrong since it is an issue on which Scripture is silent. Self-proclaimed non-believers who have taken it upon themselves to chime in have no right to weigh in it all, for last I checked freedom of religion means not only believing as you choose but also not telling others they cannot believe as they choose.

  6. Kim M. says:

    Kissing is playing with fire (as we all know before and after marriage) 😉

    Kissing is a demonstration of love

    • Julius says:

      Buying a gift for someone you are romantically inclined to is also a demonstration of love, so I guess we should also stop the premarital buying of gifts?

      • Reena says:

        Comparing buying gifts for someone to dating, kissing, foreplay seems a little When you buy a gift for someone you give that person a “bought” item.. but when you date, kiss, foreplay, sex… your giving them a piece of yourself… As a side note to other comments I read… I do not have anything against kissing by all means.. nor do I believe that kissing “always” leads to sex, but I do believe it brings other “desires” that at many times leads to temptation and “elude” acts.

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  7. Sbelle says:

    I hope that my children don’t kiss before marriage. I’m going to purchase the book, “The Princess and the Kiss” to read to my two young children, so it’s something that they have in their mind even as young people.

    I know that we should have high expectations, but I don’t know if I fully expect them not to kiss before marriage. I don’t want them to, and I will work to influence them not to, but . . . I don’t know. I DO expect them to wait for sex until marriage, though.

  8. Nicole says:

    Maybe I’m a little confused. I TOTALLY agree things like “making out” should absolutely be saved for marriage for the reasons listed above….

    But…I kiss my daughter all the time – I love when she kisses me back! She’s not really great at it (kinda sloppy!), but I think its a totally appropriate way for her to show her love to her parents. I get hugs too!

    I expect her to kiss her mommy, daddy, grandparents, aunts, siblings….quite a bit. I think it is even appropriate in some cultures to give a peck on the cheek for close friends. So in that respect, I can’t really say that kissing is always about the sexual experience…it is absolutely NOT sexual when I kiss my child, not in any way.

    So…do I expect my daughter to be kissing people between now and when she gets married…yeah. Do I want her to be kissing (making out with) any boys before she’s married? Absolutely not – that kind of kissing is way different than a quick peck on the cheek.

    I love the concept of courtship before marriage – it was not something my parents ever talked about, so I played the dating game, and have the baggage from it as well. I think the concept you’re talking about is right on, and I pray sincerely that my children can experience that kind of love in their courtship and marriage.

    But, I think there’s kissing, and then there’s KISSING. One is okay, one is not.

    (I’d also love to hear more love stories like the one you posted a while back, of the 30 something girl meeting her husband through her father……I just never even realized that kind of thing was possible these days.)

  9. I am the only woman my husband has every kissed. I consider that a tremendous honor. (And for those who think it’s not possible, he was actually the best kisser I’d ever encountered, even from the beginning, despite his lack of experience! He’d had a lot of time to think about it, y’see.) Though, frankly, if he had kissed other women first, provided he’d broken those soul ties, it really wouldn’t have bothered me. Why? Because I had certainly kissed other men (boys, I should say) before meeting my husband (and giving my life fully to Christ). With God’s help, I certainly did manage to break my soul ties to those other young men, one of whom I’m still in touch with on a semi-regular basis due to family connections. However, the physical intimacy had created a dependency in me on being “wanted.” This tempted me constantly to push my boundaries of intimacy (particularly emotional intimacy) farther than was wise, even with my dear husband (then boyfriend) while we were dating. So, he and I went on a “kissing fast” for a year during college–at a university where nightly hook-ups with strangers was the norm. Yeah, we were definitely labelled as freaks. My husband wasn’t really wild about it at the time, but in the end, we both agreed that it worked wonders in our relationship, and we finally kissed again when we got engaged the following year.

    I have no problem with my children kissing the man or woman they have pledged themselves to in marriage. Kissing CAN be a slippery slope to other forms of physical intimacy, but it needn’t be for everyone. If they find they are “up to” controlling themselves during engagement, after courtship, with a worthy young man or woman, I would certainly have no problem with that. I know some people who waited until marriage to kiss and then found themselves completely overwhelmed, even frightened, by sex because they had never been remotely physically intimate with anyone. Again, this doesn’t always happen, but it is something to consider. Not saying we NEED to kiss in order to “prepare” for sex, or something, but for some people, particularly those who have been faithful with their purity, kissing before marriage with their intended may actually be an important transition step for them.

    Kissing, in my opinion, can certainly be for foreplay–lots of pastors these days like to harp on about that. But, the truth is (and you can ask most men and they will agree, I have found) that kissing can also be a way to say “I love you.” It can be as much about emotional intimacy as physical, and it doesn’t always have to lead to something else. A kiss can be precious in itself. The point, however, is that kissing IS for intimacy of some sort, anyway you slice it. For that reason, I really believe that Christians who are serious about saving themselves physically AND emotionally for their spouses should hold off on kissing until they’re certain they are with the person they intend to marry–after courtship has progressed to engagement. If that couple then feels compelled to wait until marriage, I have no problem with that, but I don’t think it is necessary–particuarly as many such couples choose to have short engagements, as it is!

    One more note: I would actually be much stricter about this with my son than my daughter. I think a young man has a particular responsibility to protect the heart of any young woman he becomes romantically involved with. The truth is, we women, at our cores, want to be wanted; we want our man to want to kiss us–and it is a STRONG emotional bond that such an act creates. We intend to teach our son that until he has made his intentions of marriage completely clear to a young woman and her father, he is to protect not only his purity but hers–emotionally and physically–and that includes kissing but, primarily, the words “I love you.” That has a tremendous power on a young woman, particularly a trusting young woman of character. I do not think that a young man has any responsibility saying such things until he is completely clear that this is the woman he wishes to marry. He can feel it, certainly, but he has a responsibility to bite his tongue.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts,

  10. Anonymous says:

    I found your blog recently and love it!

    I’ve been thinking alot about this topic as well. I participated in the recreational dating scene and was very promiscuous as a teen. While I made a sincere acceptence of Christ at a young age, I was very confused due to abuse at a young age. I feel this and a lack of love from my father led me to act out. At 17 I got pregnant and married the father. I believe God used this experience (not that it was His desire, but I had already made the mistake)to get me out of a bad home situation and a self-destructive cycle. We are happily married almost 23 years later after spending years working out problems from our past.

    We raised out daughter going to church, encourging her to be involved in youth group, have Christian friends to support her, and to wait until marriage. While attanding public high school she made a committment to remain pure. Then she graduated and went to college…

    My daughter hasn’t been to church since and all of the friends she had in school and was closest to in youth group were sexually active or even living with their boyfriends. Now our daughter is 22, no longer in school, and a single mother.

    This has been heartbreaking for us because we tried to offer her the home support that my husband and I didn’t have. We thought it would be enough.

    Now I have a 15 yo son in public high school also involved in youth group. I talked him and my husband into allowing me to homeschool him when he was in 7th grade because I had been so dissapointed in the road my daughter had taken. (This was before the pregnancy.) But in 8th grade my husband wanted to allow him back into ps so he could be near friends and play sports.

    I am really searching for how to guide him in this situation. He is interested in girls but hasn’t started dating, but I know it’s coming and neither my husband or he would hear otherwise. My husband and I do have what we think is a pretty open relationship with our son and talk to him alot about life situations and have tried to use his older sister’s circumstance as a teachable moment. But I fear we are fighting an uphill battle when it comes to peer pressure. Any advice/insight from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

    Blessings to you all.

  11. Kelly L says:

    We fully expect our daughter to wait until marriage. We have the Princess and the Kiss book…and she loves it. As far as those who think it is OK to kiss the one you are going to marry, I simply ask this: Does purity have a line? That is, can we do this, that, and the other up to that line and still be pure? If it is not ok with just anyone, why would it suddenly become ok if you know you are getting married to that person? Wouldn’t petting and even sex be ok under that line of thinking? I am not trying to attack anyone, but just posing a question. If one had a bottle of water and put only 1/8 of a tsp of fecal matter in it, would it still be pure? Would we drink it? How can any sexual immorality be taken part in and our hearts remain pure? (And of course in our family our daughter kisses relatives—that is not what Kelly was bring up, I think.

    • annonymous11 says:

      Hey, I don’t believe that people should kiss just anyone (romantically) I believe that we should wait until we are confident that we will marry that person to kiss them. I say this because a kiss is such a precious thing, but then again, if we think we will marry someone and we kiss them but it doesn’t work out and we are forced to move on, does that automatically make us a sinner and impure? No. I wanted to find out more about what the Bible says about kissing (that’s why I’m here :P), I want wisdom for me and my boyfriend (we are promised to be married) and I came across a website that I LOVED.

      “Imagine being in a relationship where your boyfriend or girlfriend never got you a gift, not even for Christmas or your birthday. Imagine a relationship in which your boyfriend or girlfriend never complimented you or told you how special you are. Or imagine that they never help you when you need it. Or hardly ever spent time with you.

      That’s what a relationship with a very low amount of physical contact feels like to someone who has physical touch as their primary love language.

      With good intentions to guard the sacredness of purity and marital intimacy, the courtship/biblical dating crowd has taken one expression of affection, which has just as much potential as any other to be beautiful and life-giving, and has, perhaps inadvertently, labeled it as bad and dangerous.”

      Here is the link, I give credit to the author as I quoted this:

      This lady goes on to talk about how a kiss gives life to your partner, whether married or just dating, some amount of physical intimacy is needed to express a bond that cannot be expressed with words. Now, that doesn’t mean that we should kiss just anyone just because we were with them for a week… I mean in a committed relationship physical intimacy is an important part of the relationship, but not what we should be focusing completely on. If you have lustful thoughts when kissing the one you love, I think you need to examine your real motives in why you are with that person. If you are really dedicated to Christ and dedicated to your partner’s well being, purity, and soul, then you should at the very least be able to control the instincts that God gave us for a reason. These instincts however are only supposed to be put into action after we are married and only with the person we are married to.

  12. anonymous says:

    While reading your post, my heart went out to you. One thing you can do is study the book of Hosea. Hosea prayed for the lovers of his wife to turn away from her, and he also prayed for a hedge to keep her. Also, you can cry out to the Lord to have him show you hidden things that need to be addressed. You may consider a very prayerful and loving appeal to your husband and to your HUSBAND on behalf of your son about schooling and youth group. Ask the Lord to go before you. This is a spiritual battle for your son’s soul. The Lord will provide you weapons for pulling down strongholds, and He will go before us into battle. Pray warfare scriptures around your house.

    I remember reading about John Newton’s mother going to their priest sobbing in brokenheartedness over her son’s sins. The priest answered that the Lord would not leave a son on that path with a mother crying out for him as she was. Amazing Grace!

    As a dear Christian lady said, ( a re-enactor of Stonewall Jackson’s wife) “No quarter to the enemy.”

    May He uphold you with His mighty right hand.

  13. Kelly L- You said “Does purity have a line? That is, can we do this, that, and the other up to that line and still be pure? If it is not ok with just anyone, why would it suddenly become ok if you know you are getting married to that person? Wouldn’t petting and even sex be ok under that line of thinking?”

    I don’t think it is an “all or nothing” issue. God clearly says that sex is for marriage–one of the main reasons being that it can produce offspring, who deserve to be conceived in the embrace of the marital relationship. Purity, I think, does have lines. Most people would say it’s fine for a Christian man and woman to make eye contact, to speak to each other directly, to hold hands before marriage. In some cultures, these have been “issues of purity.” Besides which, kissing is not “impure” in itself. Certainly, if you feel that you are giving away too much of your heart before marriage or being tempted to sexual sin through kissing (and even some kissing might be considered sexual sin!) then, you shouldn’t be engaging in that activity. But, to outright say that pointe blank, nobody should kiss their fiance is, I think making the matter too black-and-white. If that is the case, then perhaps they should not be permitted to see each other unchaperoned, discuss intimate issues like finances, set up their future home, or hold hands. All of these things make us intimate, as well.

  14. Donna says:

    No, I do not expect my children to kiss before marriage. Our children are all teens and two adults now. None of them have dated, we believe courtship is more in line Biblical. Our teens have been telling their christian friends to stop dating, it only leads to heartache.

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  15. Elizabeth says:

    We hope our children wait. That is our standard and what are teaching them.

    However, I’m careful not to lay down absolute rules like: No Kissing Before Wedding Day.

    Like most things, it’s the attitude of chastity that’s important, not so much rule-following.

    Even a couple that has never physically kissed before their wedding day may have engaged in unchaste behavior: online or in conversation.

  16. Good questions you raised here, Kelly.

    Common sense should dictate that we understand this: that kissing is foreplay and to expect two red blooded young people who are attracted to each other (“Christian” or not) to be able to engage in the dating scene in a God-honoring way is absurd!

  17. Anonymous says:

    For those of you who support courtship rather than dating… Can you explain how you impliment this? What exactly does it “look like” and how do you explain it to your children who may know others who particpate in today’s type of dating?

  18. My response to anaon,

    Our family is not clear on how the whole “courtship” idea will look for our kids. At least not the way many on the blogging community seem to know it. We don’t go to a Family Integrated Church, our children are in school, our life is one of daily following hard after God as revealed in Scripture (not according to any denomination’s rules).

    My husband has taken the approach with my kids that my Dad took with me: That our kids will not be allowed to date as long as they are minors. Period. Except my husband has gone one better. He has explained to them the spiritual implications of serial dating (which is hardly avoidable when you start dating at 14. No matter what kids think, rarely will they marry the cute boy who winked at them in biology).

    He also explained to them the physical dangers, which I know many Chrisitans frown upon. But our kids need to know that the “condoms pushing advocates” are lying to them. That there really is no safe s*x outside of purity and monogamy in marriage.

    When our girls (we have 6) become young adults, they will have to make the right choices for themselves, though we fully plan to be involved intimately in any potential relationship they embark upon. Oh, and I know it’s not PC, be we do NOT buy the idea that our girls can be platonic friends with boys and hang out with them in the same way they would with girlfriends.

    We are really learning as we go in many ways. Like Kelly, we were victims of the dating scene and sadly, very few in the church today see a problem with it. We sometimes feel alone in our perspective.

  19. There is a huge difference between a kiss on the cheek between family members/friends and a heavy kiss. When I sincerely KISS my husband he ready for action…maybe it’s just me ;o) but I believe all men are wired this way.

    STDs are one consequence of having sex with multiple people (or the other person did) in your lifetime. You can get herpes from kissing. Do you think there is a reason why God called us to purity?

    I have been to a couple of weddings where it was the bride and groom’s first kiss, they were extra special ceremonies, as compared to weddings we have been to where there was no purity, no anticipation; the ceremony seemed to be more of a cultural tradition than a sacred ceremony.

  20. Word Warrior says:

    You said:

    “we tried to offer her the home support that my husband and I didn’t have. We thought it would be enough.”

    That line really stood out at me because I think so many parents feel the same way. I know my parents did. When I announced my out-of-wedlock pregancy, my dad said with tears, “I can’t think of anything we could have done differently”. And I think he was being honest in light of where they were. They hadn’t heard of homeschooling, or the concept of another model for marriage besides dating, so they didn’t know there was anything else except trying to teach us at home when they could.

    Problem was…IT WASN’T ENOUGH. And often that is sadly the case. And I think the reason is because we almost always imitate our peers. Period. No matter what my parents were saying about “just being friends with boys”, it was a foreign language to me when dating was THE THING. It consumed the lives of most all my friends. It seems absolutely absurd to suggest that I not date.

    So, my heart goes out to you. With your son, I would suggest trying really hard to expose him to some peers who are embracing something different than the current dating model. It’s just so hard (but not impossible) to do when you’re the only one!

    And books–Josh Harris’ book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” is a good read for the introduction and encouragement to something different.

    You’re wise for understanding the danger there…pray and trust the Lord for answers.

  21. kimberly says:

    I met my husband at 14, and wasn’t allowed to date, we married 4 years later, and have been married 25 years. My sons didn’t play the dating game either, they met girls they liked, and that was that.

    My husband has recently allowed our 16 year old daughter to have a beau. He came over and asked my husband if he could spend time with our daughter. My husband had a man to younger man, converstion with him regarding our expectations. They have gone out to dinner, and to the movies, fully chaperoned, by my older son and daughter-in-law, or other family members. They mostly spend time at our house, with our family…They do not kiss, but sometimes hold hands…We are considered the strictest parents in town…

    • evan says:

      To answer the questions: 1- i wouldnt like children to kiss anyone. 2- a kiss resambles both love and to be able to see that person in the furture in a married way.
      these are my views, and i know that not everyone will agree with them. and i have read a few posts right before this. and this is for kimberly: i would rather have the ‘stricted’ parents than to have parents who do as they please. And the reason that i say this is because i have a girlfriend and she was the one who kissed me first. After four months of dating, i say something that really openned my eyes. It was her father giving her a kiss, not on the cheeck but on the lips and i must say that really torn a hole in my heart. This has just happenned a few days ago.
      Advice would be good right now, and i would like to know if i am being unreasonable with all of this.

      • J. Selah says:

        I don’t know if you’re still needing advice on this matter… but I would still like to say something.

        I realize it may seem awkward to see a dad kissing his daughter on the lips. However, there are many, many, many families who treat a kiss on the lips as a sign of affection within the circle of those related to them. Almost every family I know kisses their families that way. My family doesn’t… and that’s only because my mother didn’t want to pass around the cold sores that seem so prominent in those families.

        Kissing a family member on the lips is not a bad thing. In your case, it was a sign of affection from the father; I’m assuming that’s just how they do it in their family. It isn’t wrong, nor is it a sexual thing.

    • I admired your useful words. awesome work. I hope you write more. I will carry on watching

  22. Rachel Falaschi says:

    “We are considered the strictest parents in town…” Kimberly,what a great compliment! People may not mean it as one, but it really is. If we could look 10 years down the road, I think you would see other people looking at you wishing they had done as you did.

  23. Daja says:

    Kelly, I’ve blogged about kissing a few times. I think you’ll like it:

  24. Gina says:

    I totally agree with you on your views. I have a teenage son who is not allowed to date, it’s true, kissing does lead to other things. We need to raise the standard of purity.

  25. Kristi says:

    I don’t think the issue is kissing, I think it is unsupervised dating. Most teens would not kiss/make-out with eachother in the presence of others who are older and responsible for them. I think it is just plain stupid to send your teenagers who are raging with hormones out alone together (or even in a “group”) and expect them not to fool around. You’re practically asking for it!

    At this point we do not plan on letting our children have unsupervised (and I’m not talking about “group dating” I’m talking about supervised by an older, trusted family member) dates. So no, I don’t expect any kissing or making out to be going on. There’s just no reason for it, other than to get eachother all riled up and sexually stimulated. I just see this as part of my job as a parent. Whatever they do after out of the house and married is their business, but when they’re still teenagers and in our house, we’re the ones responsible, IMO.

  26. Luci says:

    Oh dear! I just posted and it didn’t go through. To sum up: I agree with Bethany on this one. We will tell our children that they shouldn’t do anything that they wouldn’t be comfortable doing in front of their parents. Short kisses will be fine (if they’re engaged!), but anything else won’t be. Kissing need not lead to other things… we give short kisses to relatives, for example, and that’s obviously different. It can be a way to say “I love you” and not a temptation to go further.
    We don’t have children yet, so I may well be incorrect on this – I’ll look forward to reading other responses.

  27. Rhiannon D says:

    I don’t have children yet but I definately don’t want my future children to kiss anyone until they’re married. I think it is a very slippery slope. Kissing is for marriage and the intimacy of marriage.

    Yet I stuggle with how the “no kissing before marriage rule” is going to work for our future (the Lord willing) children. I live in Australia and ideas like no kissing before marriage and homeschooling are so completely foreign to the Christian community I am in. I love our church but it has be huge youth group and I fear physical intimacy like kissing is not discourage as much as it should be.

    Oh well. I guess my husband and I have a number of years to figure these things out.

    PS I love your blog for providing a different and compelling view of the world to the one I grew up with. Definately food for thought

  28. Word Warrior says:

    You’re right–loved them! Especially this paragraph:

    “And before anyone says, “Wait! Kissing is not sexual.” let’s be honest. It is. I’m not saying it is bad. I’m just saying that it is sexual. If it was not, why would it not be OK if I was kissing the man who lived next door. I think my husband might have a little problem with that. It would be called CHEATING! Why would it be cheating if it wasn’t sexual?”

    Which is such a simple point, but the majority of Christian parents either don’t see it, or won’t see it.

  29. Angela Cribb says:

    I agree that there should be no kissing before marriage. Even if it is meant to be chaste, kissing can so quickly lead to other feelings and actions.

    My daughter just turned 8 and I have been telling here for several years already that God wants her to save her kisses for marriage.
    I think if our kids grow up with the expectation of no dating and no sexual relations, including kissing, before marriage, then it will be easier for them to follow through on. But like anything else we want to teach, we have to constantly communicate the expectation.

    And we will be the strictest parents around but that is ok because we are called to be different than the rest of the world.

  30. Shelly says:

    Thank you for this post– this very subject has been on my heart for some time. My oldest daughter will turn 11 in July and she is often bombarded with all the “boyfriend” questions. This post validates exactly what I’ve been thinking about what “innocent little kisses” lead to. Daja did a fantastic job writing about this subject, as well.(thanks Daja :0)
    I would also like to hear your thoughts on Proverbs 7:13.
    Thanks for all your thoughts- they are very encouraging.

  31. Kelly L says:

    My intent was not to casue you to feel under attack. It was just as I said, a question. God said “Be holy as I am holy.” Holiness does not have levels, nor does purity. It is an all or nothing, black and white requirement. Whether or not that transfers to kissing before marriage is the question. I am not concerned what is or is not accepable in society. If we want to look at the original intent of God, we can read the OT and see how marriage/courtship was handled. That is my guideline, under grace. My bottom line is that I am accountable to God for all the things I teach my child. She is accountable for what she does with it.

  32. Kelly L- I did not feel under attack in anyway. Sorry if you thought that 🙂 I agree with you that we are called to purity. I never said that we should base our standards on society’s; I agree that the Bible is our guide. But, in Biblical times, courtship included some of the things I discussed above: not touching at all, not meeting unchaperoned; often the marriages were arranged. This is even common among some more traditional cultures today, including Orthodox Jews. So, it’s just something to think about. I absolutely agree with everything else you’ve written. I’m just playing devil’s advocate. If we draw the line at “no kissing until the altar” why not “no touching until the altar?” It’s the inverse of what you asked, you know? “If we permit kissing, why not petting or sex?” I think that it goes both ways. I think that hard and fast rules do not always work for everyone. The goal is purity; the details may look different, just as our standards of modesty may vary from full burka to headcoverings to long skirts to no tank-tops, whatever.

  33. kimberly in idaho says:

    My husband and I pray that our children will not kiss anyone until they marry. I still struggle with thoughts of boys that I “just” kissed in high school. Last night I spoke with an elderly friend in our church. She said that because she had been raised in a strict Christian home, attended church her entire life, and tried to live an unpright life she had felt like her testimony couldn’t help others. A friend told her “just think, God had a plan to save you from all that heartache, pain, and struggle that a lot of us have to deal with. That is very encouaging to me, because I don’t want my children to be of the world and then eventually turn to God. I want them to know who they are in Christ and only move forward in their walk, never back.

  34. Kristi says:

    When you’re a teenager or young adult, kissing (even just pecking) a fellow teen or young adult that you are attracted to is NOTHING like kissing a family member. That’s just silly.

  35. Mrs. Lady Sofia says:

    I agree with Kristi’s statement when she said that it’s NOT so much about kissing as it is about unsupervised dating. Kissing is just one aspect of temptation. Besides, there wouldn’t be any inappropriateness between a young couple if they were supervised (by a family member) in the first place.

    I think the major problem with “dating” is that people do NOT take it seriously. It’s all about recreation instead about finding a potential marriage partner. The school where I used to work at (I quit as of today!), I would have 3rd graders telling me or their friends that they are going or had been on a “date.” What does a 3rd grader (8 or 9 year old) know about “dating,” and why are the parents letting them to this? It’s obsurd!

    Relationships between those of the opposite sex need to be taken seriously. If these relationships are not taken seriously, there will be all kind of problems.

    I’m not so much against “dating” as I am against individuals taking relationships between male and female too lightly (as with the example of the 3rd graders dating as I mentioned above).

  36. Rachel says:

    We’ve talked with our 2 daughters quite a bit about dating and courtship and the older one has read the “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” book. They are almost 12 and 14. Little brother will be 4 next week, and I’ve heard them telling him the rules of taking care of girls – especially since we found out our new baby will be a girl. He is often present in the room while the girls and I are discussing modesty and purity and other such topics. I’m pleased that my older daughter would much rather knit or cook than giggle over boys – she thinks it’s silly. I heard her tell her teacher and classmate (AWANA) that when God wanted her to marry, the right guy would show up to court her.

    My mom always told us to draw the line at kissing – and I did, my dad suggested not even holding hands, but once out of high school, I did start hand holding. Later it was a short trip to sitting very close, hugging, and other touching – never very far … but….

    Just before we got married – we did “test” kissing – just quick pecks. But after marriage, I discovered I didn’t like kissing much at all – but I loved the hugging, touching stuff … and I realized just how far over the line we went because my line was drawn in the wrong spot! Because of that, when I saw things that should have made me back out of the relationship – I had too much invested emotionally to do so. He’s a great guy, and has a good knowledge of scripture – but he never grew up.

    When my girls were pretty young, they would overhear things and ask questions – I answered them as simply as I could without too much detail. I told them sex is like a beautifully wrapped gift all fancy with bows and glitter – and asked if they would like a present that had been opened and looked at several times, roughed up and shook and rattled, rumpled paper and a crooked bow. They got the picture and it has been a strong image for them.

    We’ve got a long way to the finish line – but I think we are off to a good start. We homeschool (and I wish it had been an option when I was a child) all of our children. How much I was tempted and led astray in school – and if my parents had not been so diligent, I shudder to think where I might have ended up.

  37. Jeff says:

    I think it is ok for a daughter to kiss before marriage, there is no sin there. But I strongly feel that the Holy Spirit should lead me and my future wife in discernment on this (when the time comes).

    About me… I am a convert to Christianity (several years ago). Before that I slept with many women and found two things: that there is a bond when you sleep togther (not as profound in man as women; I think) and that sex outside of God is fun, but very empty. Becaue of it I was always looking for someone ‘new’.

    Now that I am dating a Christian woman I still have deep desires physically, some she can meet and others I would not tollerate at all, or the Spirit would not let me anyhow.

    Overall, I could not date a woman who wanted to wait before marriage because there are at least 10-50 diff types of kissers, and I don’t like them all. One of the last women I dated was the worst kisser EVER, and I was thinking marriage. I would not have been happy if we got hitched.

    I realize that sounds shallow, but it is what I have to deal with because of my past mistakes. If someone did not fall to sin, and never kissed anyone before, they would have nothing to compare to and would be ok, I think.

    The biggest point that needs to be made is: God is the TRUE Father of your child. He will lead him or her away from sin if they cling to Him. So, I would be careful how many rules you create that cannot be backed with scripture for fear of rebellion. The Lord has given us all the Holy Spirit, that believe, and the Spirit will keep us from doing what is wrong. And if a mistake is made, and we will make them! Forgiveness is available forever!

  38. Word Warrior says:

    I respect your honesty and desire to be honoring to God. Let me offer you some things to think about though…(by the way, I too, had a very sordid, physical past, and did not always embrace what I see now as a means of preserving chastity.)

    You said:

    “So, I would be careful how many rules you create that cannot be backed with scripture for fear of rebellion. The Lord has given us all the Holy Spirit, that believe, and the Spirit will keep us from doing what is wrong.”

    While I’m not advocating “rules” for rules’ sake, sometimes they must be a means of obeying the principles of Scripture. As physical temptation is one of the strongest, what does the Bible say?

    It says to “flee from temptation”. It says “abstain from the very appearance of evil”. It says, “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut if off” (do whatever you have to do).

    Our flesh can get by with a lot in the name of “being led by the Spirit”. We must make sure that the Spirit is guiding us to obey the very practical words of Scripture.

    So, if fornication and adultery are “equal”, how do I treat the area of temptation with another married man? Do I tiptoe on the edge? See how close I can get before I’ve crossed the line? No, sometimes we make rules to ensure we stay as far away from temptation as possible.

    This is what we are called to, regardless of our past.

    • Julius says:

      Then if we are trying to stay as far away as possible from the “edge,” then we should do make rules to forbid dating and instead have arranged marriages. Personally, I think that’s a bad idea, but I will let you decide for yourself.

  39. Teodora says:

    Your poor children! Going to make them be different than everybody else in their school or college community. It is hard to obey your parents when they expect so much of you or are the reason for kids at school caling yo “strange” and “homosexual” only because you are not supposed to talk to boys in case you are attracted to them. My cousin is a wonderful girl of fourteen just like me. She is raised in a Christian family and lives in America now. Her parents forbid her to talk to boys and go put alone. She can’t even go see a movie with a friend without her Mom ot Dad. Her little brother, who is eleven, is forbidden to talk to girls because it is “bad”. I live in Bulgaria and I am raised in a family that i woud call normal. You will probably find that has a wrong oppinion considering sex before marriage and kissing and boyfrinds. I am not raised to belive that sex is soething we should not do before marriage. I mean sometimes wemen marry at 29 or 30. How could you not have sex before thirty? Maybe I am too young and inexperienced to have an oppinion on this matter but nevertheless I think a girl or a boy should be able to express their love even if they are not married.

  40. Jenn says:

    At the age of 19 I had already been in too many physical relationships and knew that it was not God’s desire for me. I went on a three year fast from men. No dating, no kissing, nada. Those three years are now up and in those years God did some serious healing and my thought life was changed dramatically. Now, I’m 23 and am dating the man I hope to one day marry. We have decided upon not kissing until at least engagement, if not our wedding day. Do I want to kiss him? Of course! But I already recognize how much easier it is to be in a relationship when sexual tension is avoided instead of frequently created. There isn’t the doubt of ‘does he really like me?’ or the confusion of ‘should I be doing this.’

  41. Jacqueline says:

    I agree with most of the posters that kissing (specifically the “making out” sort of kissing) ought to be saved for marriage. However my parents disagree with me; they think it’s good to kiss people you’re dating because you “need to know that you’re sexually attracted to them.” How would you respond?

  42. Heather Estes says:

    Jacqueline, don’t listen to your parents because they are wrong. kissing leads to sex and i won’t kiss until my wedding day. I am 19 and go to a christian college and get made fun of because of my convictions. i won’t kiss or hold hands or hug or anything else because i believe that as christians we should be different from the world and that is what the world does. i also believe in waiting and not dating. god has someone out there for us so we should allow him to send that person to us and not us look for that person. we, as christians, are set out to be different so if we’re dating and kissing and all that other stuff are we being different or are we being like the world? if we just hold hands and not kiss what good is that for? if we hold hands we will be tempted to kiss and if we kiss we will be tempted to have sex. so why just go halfway. its all or nothing. you either go all in and commit sexual immorality or don’t do anything and refrain from sexual immorality until you are married. i want to leave you with this question: would god do this in a relationship? if not then why do it?!

  43. Jennifer says:

    “Kissing leads to sex”

    Only for people who don’t have sufficient control. Every young married couple I know kissed without anything else. You won’t even hug or hold hands? Not even LOOK for that person?

    “you either go all in and commit sexual immorality or don’t do anything and refrain from sexual immorality until you are married. i want to leave you with this question: would god do this in a relationship? if not then why do it?!”

    Ok, you sound very young and these last statements go from discerning to strikingly naive. Not everyone has no control, Heather. And just as an FWI, God doesn’t kiss anyone because He’s God: Christ, Yahweh, Adonai, not Zeus.

    You’re entitled to your beliefs, Heather, but don’t expect all Christians to hold such extremes as a Biblical mandate.

  44. Kim M says:

    It is appalling for someone that implies that she is older to tear down a young lady’s commitment to purity.

    No one has de-Christianized anyone here, but it is very good advice for a young lady to tell another young lady that it is wise to avoid playing with fire.

    How would one even know how much control she has until she has gone too far? Do we tell young ladies to experiment with drugs? Do we tell them to drive dangerously to see how well they can handle a car?

    Please don’t tear scold someone because they choose to cut off the proverbial hand or pluck out the eye that offends them. It is good to advise young Christian ladies (especially in this day and age) that it is best to avoid a physical relationship until marriage. Heather needs to be lauded for her strength, not berated…. and Jacqueline did ask.

    Notice Jacqueline’s parents said “Sexually attracted” … so how many guys does one kiss before you find out? And what if one DOES become sexually attracted… then what? Sexually attracted does mean that you want to be intimate right?

    I don’t think going around kissing a bunch of guys to see which ones she is sexually attracted to would be considered self control.

    Consider Matthew 5
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 “If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

    • Julius says:

      It is appalling for someone that implies that she is older to tear down a young lady’s commitment to purity.

      No one has de-Christianized anyone here, but it is very good advice for a young lady to tell another young lady that it is wise to avoid playing with fire.

      How would one even know how much control she has until she has gone too far? Do we tell young ladies to experiment with drugs? Do we tell them to drive dangerously to see how well they can handle a car?

      Please don’t tear scold someone because they choose to cut off the proverbial hand or pluck out the eye that offends them. It is good to advise young Christian ladies (especially in this day and age) that it is best to avoid a physical relationship until marriage. Heather needs to be lauded for her strength, not berated…. and Jacqueline did ask.

      Notice Jacqueline’s parents said “Sexually attracted” … so how many guys does one kiss before you find out? And what if one DOES become sexually attracted… then what? Sexually attracted does mean that you want to be intimate right?

      I don’t think going around kissing a bunch of guys to see which ones she is sexually attracted to would be considered self control.

      a. She was not “tear[ing] down [her] commitment to purity.” She was actually making a comment on how her views are extreme and that kissing does not necessarily lead to sex, nor is it solely a sexual tool.

      b. You are automatically assuming that kissing is playing with fire. Kissing is a long ways off from having sex. Many couples can kiss without engaging in sexual activity. Yes, it slightly raises the chances. However, the differences isn’t that large. If a small chance of having sex bothers you, then why don’t you adopt the Islamic view of the matter. Follow the Taliban’s example and prevent women and men from being in public together. Also forbid a man and a woman being together in private outside of marriage. Or, accept the fact that there will be a small risk with benefits of a great deal of happiness.

      c. One cannot know exactly how much control one has, but one can estimate closely. Let me provide an example. A recovering alcoholic will stay far away from alcohol because they know they have little control over how much alcohol they drink if they start, so they will not drink any at all (and also avoid the bar altogether). A person without any history of alcohol problems will know they can safely drink 1-2 drinks. There you go. That is how someone can know how much control one has. I would say the comparison works well because though the object’s that one desires are different, both situations deal with temptation. On the other hand, your examples are quite different from the situation. You say “Do we tell young girls to experiment with drugs.” Also your comment about telling people to drive dangerously. Of course we don’t tell them to do those things. We also don’t TELL them to kiss. Furthermore, kissing is far less likely to lead to sex than driving dangerously is to lead to a collision.

      d. It is good to advise to not have, but not completely forbid physical intimacy. It is completely possible for a relationship to abstain from sex and yet contain physical intimacy. Want an example? The relationship that I am currently in. I am the male in the relationship, and so biologically, I would be more likely to try and initiate any sex. I am also an atheist (my girlfriend is the Christian, although I am now attending church and reading scripture and trying very hard to have faith) and so I do not have a rule of no premarital sex imposed on me. However, I will never attempt to engage in any sexual activity with my girlfriend. I know it is very important to her. It is also my opinion that society today takes sex much too lightly. I also believe that sex is not what matters, it is the intimacy between two people that does and I am more than satisfied with holding her in my arms and talking quietly (and with all our clothes on as well! Amazing how I was able to control myself and not start touching her erogenous zones, take off her and my clothes and start having sex! Or, maybe it wasn’t really a hard temptation to fight off. Actually that is it. It wasn’t a large temptation at all). This is with me being in college. It seems to be the common belief that college students are the most promiscuous of all groups of people (which is probably true). I understand it could just be that the both of us are very mature. This may be, or it may not be. It is more likely, however, that we are average, so let us assume that we are the norm. With me being in college, than it is even less likely for one to be tempted if they are of a different age group. So it can be advised to not have physical relationships unless one knows that they have that control. However, completely forbidding it like most posters on this blog seem to be saying they will be doing, is a ridiculous idea.

      I will not comment on the rest of your ideas since those make sense.

  45. Blankkkk says:

    So, not to be disrespectful but i am beginning to really think of this. So none of you kissed your spouses before marriage?

  46. Blankkkk says:

    Oh and I think its the same thing if I kiss my boyfriend or if another woman who decided not to is DWELLLING on the idea! Its the sameee thing!

  47. Jennifer says:

    Kim, I am entitled to great exasperation when I see young people make such extreme, all-inclusive statements. Your accusations of this being “appalling” have no effect or place with me, because what I find appalling is the ridiculousness of mass presumption; I have no patience or sympathy for it and never will. I know what it is to be scolded by an older party for my own sincerely held beliefs and I did not scold Heather for holding her own; I sharply disagreed with her reasoning and dictation of what EVERYONE is like. I’m quite frankly sick of this kind of naivety, rampant in the young and the old these days. It’s not strength, and I won’t laud it, so perhaps you should save your own scoldings.

    “I don’t think going around kissing a bunch of guys to see which ones she is sexually attracted to would be considered self control”

    No one said it was.

  48. Kim M says:

    It is not naivety at all. While the girl doing the kissing may be totally unscathed inside and out, the young man is a whole different story. I grew up with boys, I am married to a man, and I have all boys for children. There is a common temptation among them all. I won’t go into that… you know what I mean. It doesn’t take much. Yes I know some struggle more than others, but that is beside the point and not easily recognized by a young lady.

    It is VERY naive for a girl to think that her boyfriend’s mind will remain spotless while she is french kissing him and especially if their bodies are close. (Matthew 5 as stated in my above comment… sins start in the heart).

    By not kissing him, she is treating him as her Christian brother (I Timothy 5).

    Whether you agree with Josh Harris or not this is really entertaining and he makes a great point.

  49. Jennifer says:

    It’s naive to claim that all people are the same and should operate the same way, Kim. That was my point.

  50. Elizabeth says:

    What a timely post! My husband and I were just talking about purity the other night and if we would be teaching our children that kissing before marriage is acceptable or not acceptable (our 4 children are 7 and under). We were discussing how many christians consider themselves pure if they do not “go all the way”. My husband came up with this comparison between being pure in mind and body and kissing/petting/ect….”it’s like licking all of the icing off of the cake and then saying, I DIDN’T EAT THE CAKE!!” Too many people today believe that toeing the line of obedience IS obedience, when in truth it is still rebellion if you’re not obeying CHEERFULLY with your whole MIND and body.

  51. Kelly L says:

    I like the cake analogy!

  52. Maria C. says:

    As a faithful Christian, this post has been quite an eye opener for me! I was wondering what kind of boundaries Scripture has set for premarital relations. I am in a relationship with a fellow student who I met Mass, and we have been dealing with this issue. The two of us got together through our student prayer group (well, through a mutual friend, but we got to know eachother as friends in this setting), and are both committed to no sex before marriage.

    With all due respect, I beg to differ with the idea that two intelligent 20-somethings with sufficient will power cannot handle some passionate kissing. We are both sentient beings with a clearly defined picture of what is spiritually and emotionally nurturing, and destructive, as we learn and grow in our relationship with eachother. Neither of us consume alcohol (unlike 90% of the student body at our top 20 university), party, or buy into the hook-up culture that is so prevalent at our school. We do well in our classes and have our sets set on grad school. That was just to provide a bit of context for what I am about to say. 🙂

    When my boyfriend and I are together, we hold hands and yes, we french kiss, embracing and caressing. Let’s be realistic and practical– french kissing is probably the least of your worries when it comes to your future husband’s sexual history in this day and age. I cannot honestly say that finding out someday that my future husband made out with girls in his past will cause me emotional pain. We all seem to have different perspectives about this, though.

    I have to pray and try to discern whether the physical boundaries I set for myself allow me to really get to know a man in the fullest possible sense. One must try to figure out whether expressions of physical intimacy are triggering hormonal surges and emotional connections, which can cloud judgement of a man’s character.

    It takes two to do the horizontal tango. With both of you working together to preserve your chastity, you CAN practice restraint, as my boyfriend and I do. We are not mindless animals. God gave us Free Will. Fire is all-consuming, mindless, and cannot be controlled unless you destroy it. French kissing can be tempered by self discipline, and the desire to do what is best for the one you love. It can be confined within firm boundaries, unlike fire. Fire knows no bounds because it is not human. The analogy is poor. In the same way that I don’t go back to the soft serve machine for another bowl of ice cream after my first, I exercise self control with showing and receiving physical love. I do my homework on many Saturday afternoons instead of surfing the internet or going shopping, because I have to get it done. We make sacrifices to glorify God. Do you understand where I am coming from?

    One of the many reasons I love my boyfriend is because he likes to make me happy in the physical sense as well as the emotional sense. Whether he is squeezing my hand during a movie, or tickling my back when we’re kissing, it’s nice to know that you are both willing to please eachother, and meet eachother’s needs. That you’re on the same page, and are unfraid, and willing to take cues from one another. This type of compatibility will be important in the marriage bed, I believe. Is this not a crucial component of a healthy, lasting marriage? This is why I feel that passionate kissing can be a valid expression of love within a developed, committed relationship, and that anything labeled as “sex” (oral, intercourse) is off limits.

    It probably helps that we are usually hanging out with our Newman Center friends. With the love and support of fellow believers, and with God, all things are possible!

    After reading some posts here, I’d like to offer a bit of feedback regarding child rearing. My parents were never militant about anything having to do with my sexuality. They actually never discussed it with my older sister and me. I was indoctrinated at my Catholic middle school. The pro-life, pro-respect message they promoted stuck with me through high school and college. Being a nerd and a very busy, overachieving kid (sports, dance, music) also helped me to completly sidestep dating. Get your kids into lots of after school activities, and they won’t have time to mess around with boys. School always comes first!

    We may have just been uncommonly well behaved kids, though. We didn’t party, drink, or sneak around. We went to Mass every Sunday. I can only hope that I can be a parent who leads by example, wih overflowing compassion and love for my children. I have utmost respect for the personal decisions of everyone here concerning child-rearing. Live and let live!

    • Chris says:

      I see you have taken a somewhat secular humanistic approach to this topic as evidenced by ‘sentient beings’. I believe if you really felt comfortable about it you wouldn’t site so many things that you ‘don’t do’. Be careful and really examine your comments. Righetous living needs no defense.

  53. Sara says:

    Uhhh. Thanks Alot to all of the mothers who left a comment, am 15 years old and a christan and i was wondering wheather to kiss or not. I was scared, because i dont want to sin, but thanks to God and you guys i can make a better choice. (Am a little scared to ask my Parents)

    • Jennifer says:

      Sarah honey, you wouldn’t be sinning just by kissing! Please don’t live in fear.

      • Word Warrior says:

        I usually don’t comment on old posts and I doubt Sara is even still reading, but I couldn’t let your comment go. I think we have to be very careful making such absolute comments, and I don’t think your statement can survive alone.

        It could very well be sinning to kiss based on two premises:

        One, if we believe that to be chaste (and take Paul’s admonition to “not touch a woman” literally) means avoiding activities that are recognized as “intimate”, then to engage even in kissing with someone who may or may not be a spouse would breach that restriction.

        (And I do feel strongly that using the guidelines of “what is not acceptable sexual behavior with other men if I’m married is not acceptable before I’m married” as most of us are still “someone’s spouse”.)

        Secondly, it’s not rocket science that kissing is considered “warming up”. And as such, we ask, “warming up for what?” Forbidden activity, that’s what. And based on the clear teaching of Scripture that we are to “avoid even the appearance or “hint” of sin”, it’s not a hard line to draw.

        Jesus was VERY serious about temptation and keeping ourselves from it. “Cutting off body parts” was his shocking analogy that said, “You go to whatever lengths it takes to avoid sin”.

        So we must be VERY careful to tell a 15 year old “Don’t worry, you can kiss”. I’m not with ya.

        • Jennifer says:

          I think it’s also an absolute to say that something like kissing out of marriage is always a sin. Kissing can be either relatively simple or very complicated; a lot can depend on the situation and the people. Every couple I know who was chaste before marriage kissed ahead of time, including mainly each other. My comment definitely was half-baked; it just alarmed me to see a young girl so scared about something that would not be guaranteed to lead to disaster. I think this issue is complex and debatable, and while my comment definitely wasn’t good by itself, my actual meaning was literally, “You don’t sin JUST by kissing”. Sarah was nervous and wouldn’t even ask her parents. Caution is better, but I didn’t wish for her to live in fear.

  54. Flagnostic says:

    Before I say anything about the topic, I’d like to let it be known that I’m NOT a Christian, so you can (and probably will) take what I say with a grain of salt.
    I found this site while searching the topic after watching a documentary about Christianity. I actually didn’t believe that this many people went to these lengths to ‘obey’ some perceived objective rules about intimacy. I’ve read comments on here that insinuate that kissing (making out) mean that hot, steamy sex are a foregone conclusion. It makes me wonder how so many people that claim to have never done such a thing can then claim that said thing will lead to this. Also, I read a comment about premarital sex being fun but empty. I think that that is a very irresponsible statement because it passes 1 individual’s experience onto an entire group of people that may very well not have had the same experience. I can say that I have had plenty of premarital sex in my life and, yes, it can be
    ’empty’ but it can also be wonderful, like anything else in life! Blanket statements cannot and should not be applied to everyone. You all have a right (indeed a responsibility) to raise your offspring the way that you see fit, however, I think that it is very unrealistic to think that they will be able to live up to ALL of your standards, particularly when many of those standards go against the biological instinct of your offspring….biological instincts, may I remind you, that this ‘god’ of yours instilled in them. Again, I’m just a lowly heathen so you can (and likely will) ignore what I say. That, however, won’t stop some of you from experiencing utter devastation when you find out that your child made out with their boyfriend/girlfriend, or are either pregnant or have gotten someone pregnant. Just my $.02, no harm intended 🙂

    • Jennifer says:

      Flag, I agree that some of the anti-kissing comments are extreme. However, repeated sex out of marriage with various partners generally ends exactly like these posters have described: emptiness. As human beings, we’re built for monogamy and deeper bonds than genitalia; we flourish from commitment, not various mating partners.

  55. Sally says:

    I came upon this site in search of opinions on kissing before marriage. The Bible clearly says that some have stronger and weaker faith – the example that the Bible gives is that some can only eat certain foods (weaker faith) while some can eat all foods (stronger faith). However, whichever one someone is, they should not be judged or judge others. Some do have the will power to kiss and not have sex, and some may not, but neither should be judged. The goal is to avoid sex because that is designed by God for the two becoming one flesh in marriage. I do feel that you give a part of yourself when you kiss someone in a relationsip so you need to be careful it’s done on your terms when you feel comfortable, to avoid heartache. Don’t do it because you feel you will lose your partner if you don’t, or do it in a lustful way. Kissing can be sweet and innocent, and lovely when it’s not forced. God wants us to be happy and live abundantly so we shouldn’t feel like there are a bunch of rules that we have to abide by just for the sake of doing so. It’s important to teach a child the loving reasoning behind everything you teach so it is taught in love and obeyed in love, not obeyed in fear of condemnation. I also think that if someone ‘messes up’ and does feel they have kissed and should not have, they should not feel condemned. Christ did not come to condemn the world, but to save it. He is faithful and just to forgive us and we are not lesser than we were before. We cannot live a perfect life without mistakes, that is why we need Christ.

  56. Sally says:

    I also want to add to the above, that instead of a “no kissing before marriage rule” for children, which implies fear and condemnation and even legalism, we should emphasize how purity is a beautiful God-given thing and if your child ever feels like he/she is compromising on his/her purity with someone and does feel guilt, that it is the Holy Spirit is protecting them. Help them understand that if they do feel they did something wrong, that they are still loved and forgiven and should feel comfortable approaching parents. This is how God loves us, we don’t hide bad things from him but maintain an open relationship through Christ. Long-lasting obedience from children comes from instilling in them a love that implies that even if they do not obey, they are still loved, accepted and welcomed. After all that is how God loves us! I would want to obey someone if I knew they wanted the best for me and genuinely cared, not someone who is trying to rule over me with commands that I have to live up to, out of fear (which I hate to say, is how the Pharisees did it in Jesus’s time). Do not overburden children with commands but rather liberate them with a sacrificial unconditional love and open communication support.

  57. Rebekah says:

    So I’m a little confused. The more I read the more conflicting things I hear. I don’t think it’s right for me to wait until marriage to kiss—it would be like a double temptation. Here, let me explain.

    I’m trying very hard to set everything I hear in the proper place. Obviously, I’m going to take the words of my own parents before those of people I see online, the words of those who spout bible verses over those that just make speculation. Not that I’m bashing any one of you, not at all! Everything here is very helpful, because it creates a more completely, multi-perspective picture. This thing is, I’m trying to figure out, through prayer, God, the Bible, my Christian influences, what is the right boundary for me.

    When I made the pact not to kiss before I was engaged, I also made the choice not to get involved with any man romantically before college at least. That was about a year before God flung a door about as wide as it could be and put me in a wonderful Christian relationship with a man from my church. (Disclaimer: When I say ‘man’, I am referring more to maturity than to age. I promise you, I am not a highschooler dating someone in his mid-twenties or anything.) We actually aren’t dating yet, though we are in a sort of relationship. We hold hands every once in awhile, and he puts his arm around me, and that is the most we have done or will do for awhile yet.

    What I’m saying is that God showed me that I had given into a bit of the pressure or peers and even authorities on the Bible in my life rather than taking my final decision from Him. I have already been shown that I am very different than others in the way I think and view and react to things, emotionally and logically. As a writer, I would always have written ‘romantic scenes’ where the main characters hold hands of something like that for the first time, and I would outline the girl’s feelings as ecstatic—what I thought I would feel when I finally got the chance. You know what? I was wrong.

    It was a sign of affection, yes, and something I thoroughly enjoyed. But the first time we held hands were weren’t even focusing on each other. I know many of you will say that ‘he was thinking about me and -that- and stuff’ even if I didn’t see it, but he’s not like that. Yeah, roll your eyes if you wish, but as raw and untested as I am in the romantic game, sexual abuse in the past has taught me to keep my guard up, and I’d known him three years before we even realized we cared for eachother. Not to mention, he is my brother’s best friend and knows and talks to my mother all the time about just about anything. The first time he expressed feelings for me, he went straight to my parents and told the complete and absolute truth.

    So his character isn’t the thing I’m worried about. He has kissed girls before, and he is in complete control. It doesn’t necessarily tempt him to continue—he cares too much about those around him to ever consider doing anything more. That I know for certain, not because he told me, but because God confirmed it to me.

    Anyway, my first point was this—When given a bar of chocolate that I shouldn’t eat all of, you know what I do? I take one piece, about the size of the tip of my finger, and put the rest in the fridge for after dinner. And I’m /happy/. My most trusted and respected pastor made a very good point in one of his sermons: Sometimes setting your boundaries too far back from what God says is wrong only increases the temptation. If a starved man has a feast set before him, what do you think he will do? He will eat ravenously until he gets horribly sick. Likely, he will make the mistake at least one more time before he realized that moderation is key. But a man who has been kept content in the food he’s been given will sit and eat leisurely and stops before it becomes unhealthy. At least, that is the case if they are at all like me.

    When I starve myself of what I desire completely, often I do extremely and concretely sinful things to quench myself. Either that or I will set up so much of a wall that I will not have anything to do with it, even when it becomes healthy. I mentioned before that I was abused—well, I don’t know if you guys know what that feels like or not. But if I have a choice between not kissing before marriage– which could lead to 1)being sorely tempted to misery all the days until then or 2)not being able to give my husband everything because of emotional distance, fear, or anything else—and kissing (not making out passionately, but innocent, affectionate kisses on the cheek or lips) before marriage and being happy and contented with what God has allowed me, I will choose the latter.

    I hope that made sense. It was a little convoluted.

    One thing, I truly believe that my current boyfriend (Best term—we’re not really dating, as I said before) could be the man that God has for me to marry. And every night I pray to God to give me His desires and insight for my life, and I’ve only noticed my feelings growing stronger. While I don’t see myself kissing him in the near future, I don’t see such an extreme boundary and ‘not until marriage’ or ‘not until engagement’ to be healthy for me, personally. It’s not even a compromise, really. Because I know myself, I know that when faced will an all-or-nothing deal I try to bend the rules or all-out break them. And while not kissing until engagement or marriage may be the best way for most Christians, I personally believe that God’s boundaries for me are different, because I am a different person, with different strengths and weaknesses. And my greatest weakness—the emotional scars form the abuse—translates to His greatest strength in my life, because I’ve already had to give everything about love and lust and romance to God. I can kiss without compromising the emotional and physical purity in my life. As long as the same is true for the man I am kissing, I believe it is ok. Even good, and healthy.

    What do you think? Think I’m insane?

  58. Alexander says:

    I am 16 years old and find myself constantly searching biblical references to my life on google. Looking up dating, kissing, and what’s appropriate in a relationship. I had my first and only bf in December and realized that I don’t need a bf to be happy and that I made a huge mistake. I felt horrible when I kissed him, and I finally ended it because kissing was to sexual for me. Ever since then I regret every time I ever kissed him. I feel that in my heart kissing should be saved til marriage it’s one of those things that you should look forward to when you finally marry the right one. I really enjoyed getting to read everyones views on kissing.

  59. christianboy says:

    “not from a prudish, weird, unattainable model that only middle eastern countries embrace.”

    Actually, dear, its not weird and not unattainable! I am a Christian from the middle east, and remember where Jesus came from! the middle east!

    American culture has to do more with pagan pre-christian European culture of Rome/Greece where sexual immorality was accepted and encouraged.

    If we are to be ‘Christians’ in a hedonistic nation (albeit with a lot of churches) like America, we need to follow the Bible and the CULTURE of the Bible – how Jesus lived, how his parents lived.

    I got into an arranged marriage (like Jesus parents) and it is truly the best! We marry, fall in love, the love grows.
    In western culture, people fall in lust, try out multiple partners, marry and then the love dies. This ‘try before you buy’ is for cars and commodities, not for human beings.

    The west has failed with marriage, family values, pornopgraphy and other sexual sins – we have high abortions, divorce rates, teenage pregnancies, and STDs. 80% of Americans will have HPV by age 50 – think about it! “For the wages of sin is death”.

    Arrange marriage works well as long as people get to know each other in a non-physical manner (but more of mental compatibility).

  60. Tonia says:

    I’m 27 and in my first relationship. My father made me know that no guy has anything to offer me. I never dated in high school and at the university.

    Currently, I’m in a relationship and my boyfriens likes th kiss me but I do not respond to it, not beause I don’t want to but rather i feel that’s not God’s purpose for me.

  61. ivanka says:

    Hello everyone,
    i’m 16 years old and my bf and i have kissed before. i’m still with him it’s our 5th year and we still kiss, but lately i have been wondering if this is ok. i’m a christian and everyone says theres nothing wrong with kissing as long as you dont go any further, to me i can kiss my boyfriend and not be tempted to go further, but he always starts going a little further. Should i lay off of the kissing til marriage? i feel like im doing the wrong thing. i dont know i read all of your comments but everyone has their own opinion, is it sin to make out or not? i just dont know. since i’ve already kissed him so many times, does it even make a difference if we stop kissing?

  62. Tennesseegirl says:

    To whoever said “We do not buy the idea that our girls can be platonic friends with boys and hang out with them the same way they would with girlfriends.” Well I’m 15,I’m homeschooled and I’m a Christian and I’ve got some really close friends that are boys. I’ve never had a crush on them and if they’ve had a crush on me I’ve been completely oblivious to it. I hug them every time I see them , we go to the movies and I’ve even danced with them several times. I was in a play with my friend Phillip and in the last scene I declared my love for his character. After the play I kissed him on the cheek leaving a big red lipstick print. Does that mean that we ‘like’ eachother ? NO!
    I was waiting on my mom to come pick me up from somewhere,so I hung out with my friend David while I waited. We we all alone behind a building next to the woods and it was raining a little. What did we do ? We ate honeysuckles and smacked eachother with wet branches. So yeah , a guy and girl can be strictly friends , even when they’re completely alone and in a somewhat romantic place lol

  63. Tennesseegirl says:

    Ivanka I know I’m younger than you but if my boyfriend kept trying to go a little further I’d tell HIM to lay off. If he can’t respect your wishes then I don’t think he’s worth it , but that’s just me. I’ve never had my first kiss but I’m not necessarily going to wait until I’m married because I know that I’d freak out on my wedding night , but that’s just me. Just pray about it and make sure your boyfriend knows how you feel. 🙂

  64. ChristianBabe says:

    Dear everyone,
    The answer is obvious. Totally and completely obvious – I’m stunned no one has gotten it so far. The answer is to talk to God. As christians, shouldn’t we be asking God what He wants, rather than asking other people what they THINK God wants?
    Maybe there is no definite line. Every person is individual. Maybe the rules have changed since biblical times – the type of cultural change, for instance women are allowed to wear pants. Maybe the ‘line’ we are all so worried about crossing is different for everyone; some people want to dive in, some might get carried away – but there still might be people who can restrict themselves and glorify God with their kissing. Really, the only way to find out is to ask God, and listen to his commands.
    I understand if no one else feels this way, since I’m pretty young. I won’t say how young, for fear of not being taken seriously or looked upon with condescension.
    Ciao =)

  65. Jennifer says:

    You are a WISE young one, babe 🙂

  66. Lexie says:

    That is a very wise comment christian babe, and regardless of how old you are Gods wisdom is for people of all age groups. I feel like God knows our hearts and our intent. If your intent is to seduce then sure its a sin, what we really should be praying for is discernment. God knows us better than we know ourselves. We tend to ignore the holyspirits warning when it comes to stuff like this. We should really be still and listen to what the holyspirit is saying.

  67. lisa says:

    1. Modern recreational dating is unbiblical because it tempts the parties involved to commit sexual immorality and often leads to fornication. Because of our sinful natures and because of natural sexual appetites believers should never place themselves in situations that can cause temptation and sin. Believers cannot trust themselves to be alone with an attractive person of the opposite sex especially when that person has a commitment and strong emotional attachment to the one they are with. “Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.” Recreational dating presupposes that a certain amount of kissing and touching are acceptable outside of the marriage relationship as long as things do not go too far. Paul says, “Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man NOT TO TOUCH A WOMAN. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband (1 Cor. 71-3).He(the dating christian man) is also ignoring the fact that he is touching someone else’s future wife, while at the same time expecting his own future wife to be chaste.
    Paul says unequivocally that it is morally good for a single man not to have sexual relations with a woman. Sexual affection is strictly limited by the apostle to the marriage relationship. Kissing and rubbing various parts of the body are clearly foreplay. Paul says, “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Rom 12:2). “Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry” (Col. 3:5). “That you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts” (Eph. 4:22). Our Lord commanded us to pray that we not be led into temptation (cf. Mt. 6:13). Can we pray this prayer with sincerity while we deliberately pour gasoline on the ember of lust? All sin begins with an entering into temptation. Therefore, if you fear sin, then you must also fear temptation. Instead of following the modern dating paradigm, we should heed the words of Peter. “Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul” (1Pet. 2:11). Lust is such a danger to Christians that Paul even warned Timothy, a man of God, to avoid it like the plague. “Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart” (2 Tim. 2:22.).

    “You will never find David dancing after his sin with Bathsheba. Not he; there was not dance in him after that! He limped to the day of his death” (C. H. Spurgeon).

    “Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12). “A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, but the simple pass on and are punished” (Prov. 22:3). “He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, but whoever walks wisely will be delivered” (Prov. 28:26).

    2. Another particularly troublesome aspect of the dating paradigm is that believers are trained to confuse lust and strong emotions with genuine biblical love. When a Christian young man takes out a young woman and causes her to lust and sin by kissing and so forth he is not expressing biblical love, for true love obeys God’s law. “Love…does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth” (1 Cor. 13:4-6). “This is love, that we walk according to His commandments” (2 Jn. 6). When a Christian couple engages in kissing and touching they are stepping outside of lawful behavior, imitating the pagan world, and are not acting in each other’s best interest which is to serve Christ with the whole heart. “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law…Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts” (Rom. 13:9-10, 13-14).

    • Mindy says:

      Lisa, what we mean is yeah u can kisss family! Just not others of the opposite sex(family not included).

    • Jennifer says:

      “Believers cannot trust themselves to be alone with an attractive person of the opposite sex especially when that person has a commitment and strong emotional attachment to the one they are with”

      Are you serious? So what are they to do, disclose all personal matters during their engagement in front of family? Never have one-on-one time during courtship? And never allow themselves to court unless they somehow think, “This could be the one”? And how could they think such a thing anyway if they’ve BARELY EVEN SPOKEN before, let alone by themselves? It’s ridiculous, and the kind of thinking that dictates that people can’t have a casual date without thinking of marriage or sex builds up nonsensical and harmful pressure on both parties.

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  68. Jennifer says:

    “Why would we practice unfaithfulness before marriage and then expect it during marriage?”

    Because they’re not MARRIED yet, so it’s not unfaithfulness. That’s as silly to me as saying you shouldn’t court before marriage. Umm…

  69. Person says:

    ‘Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth..” Song of Solomon 1:2

    It’s like all of you (except Jennifer) failed to notice the love poem in the Bible otherwise known as the Song of Solomon.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Nope, we didn’t. The Song of Solomon is written about a married couple.

      • Keri says:

        Kelly, saw your last comment..It was true..Anyway..I know for me-having messed up with some of these things before marraige..I want better for my kids..Three are now in their 20’s. My husband and I have always tended to be a little more-authoritative because we were raised so permissive.Our families were not saying that..this has been an interesting experience for us as we have watched our 22 yr.old son find the young lady at church that he is Sure he is going to marry.She feels the same way.He has Never dated before and as this relationship began my husband and I were like “slow down” have lots of time.They did not do alot of the courtship rules or things we have all heard about or read..what he did do to her at church..they wrote on fb..he went to her house to do yard work for her then was invited for dinner.He was a nervous wreck(she told me later) and began to establish a relationship with her family.It wasn’t very long before he talked to her Dad.They are from Germany and have Never heard of courtship. We didn’t give him rules or regulations Because he is a grown young man.He never wanted the dating scene. We have talked about this and prayed for this his whole life. He is a strong Christian young man and she is a strong Christian young woman.They have asked for some accountability and we as parents give it.We spend time with them as a family and they spend time together..but, not late at night alone..they have asked that. He tells us alot..I was really nervous about them kissing and would ask him every once in a while.He didn’t seem to mind me asking and then one day I realized..he’s 22 yrs. old and he loves you Lord.I see them doing so many things the right way and I made the decision not to ask him if they have kissed. I know they are not going off and getting a room somewhere..kind of blunt..but there is a difference and yes..I know where kissing can lead and all the verses and arguments against it..My son is a grown man.My husband and I were already married by then. I’m not saying they will do everything perfect..or how we want them..I do believe they will stay pure physically before marraige..he talks to us alot about that but if that includes kissing, I don’t know. I’m thankful for the communication we have with them both. It’s hard in some ways when they get older because as moms we remember our mistakes and want to shield our children from the same mistakes..We can’t..we have to fully Trust the Lord and Pray Hard and give our advice when it’s asked for and sometimes when it’s are still praying for the outcome for all of this as she’s finishing her last year of high-school.She put herself a year behind in school when they came here because of the English factor so she is about to turn 19. I will never forget her sharing a testimony in church about a year and a half ago and I went up to someone afterwards and said.”Do you know how old she is” was before they began to talk but he was watching her.Anyway..just wanted to share this with you from a mom who is watching her kids grow up and really follow after the Lord..God Bless you today!

      • kristen says:

  70. NotAnAngryResponse says:

    I believe that this discussion, once boiled down, is about temptation and monogamy. It’s about cultivating a lasting relationship with another person – your soul mate if you like.

    The responses to this blog would suggest that having a relationship prior, would somehow take away from the marriage. I don’t believe that’s true.

    If the question was modified, would it change your answer? Is it possible to have been in love more than once? Consider a widow(er) seeking another mate. We could only assume that he/she experienced passion in their marriage. Is it possible to love another as much as with the previous?

    I say yes. I think it’s similar to how a parent can give ALL their love to a child. But somehow, when the next child shows up – miraculously – there’s still just as much love. Love is an infinite resource (I believe). It’s a shame that is so seldom used.

    So, in my mind – kiss Away! Or just hold hands! Or give great big hugs! Or …

    To me the most important consideration is to follow your heart. Your heart – and not your loins – will be the best path to a loving relationship. It was for me.

    I kissed many – too many perhaps. But among those I kissed was my wife of 26 years. For what is worth, she kissed plenty too. To this day still tells me that it was my kiss that sealed the deal.

    Now I’m sure some of you see that “Or …” and immediately think blasphemy. Sex before marriage … bad! Well perhaps. But I will say this. The day we were married was not when we got our license from the state. Nor was it when the cleric announced it to the crowd. It was the momement that my wife and I, by ourselves, decided to live our lives together as a couple. Then – at that very moment – we were married. The rest was pomp and circumstance.

  71. Keri says:

    Is it really about temptation and monogamy? I don’t really believe it is! When I shared about my son and his future wife I don’t really believe that was what you got from it. My son and his girlfriend are Strong Believers in Jesus Christ and although they love each other and know that they want to be married, they also want to live their lives to be honoring to him and to each other.

    • NotAnAngryResponse says:

      I appreciate that you disagree with me. If you check this discussion thread however, you should see that I was not replying to you directly.

      My entry was to the general discussion after careful reading of all the comments and replies. And I will stand by what I said – that this is a discussion about temptation and monogamy. I also believe my comments were offered without judgement.

      If your son and his future wife feel that kissing is something they should wait for, by all means, wait. But that descision is their’s not ours. If they decide to kiss, then that too is their decision.

      Perhaps the key to a long and loving relationship is not whether they actually kiss or not, but whether the couple is working together on these descisions.

  72. Keri says:

    I can see that now.You are correct..Your comments were made without judgement.You can see from my comments that as a parent of a 22yr.old grown son that I have decided to leave that to them and to not ask them if they have kissed.On the other hand, as a Christian Parent,and my son and his girl as is not just about them just making the decision to kiss or not to kiss.For a Christian it’s not just about pomp and circumstance.It’s really about making a commitment before God and honoring it.It sounds like you have had a good and long marraige and I am glad for that.But for them to actually consumate themselves together..sure you know what I mean..and to consider themselves married would go against what they believe just because they love each other and know they are going to get married anyway.Just making that clear my friend..

  73. Caitlin says:

    My boyfriend and I have been dating about a year now and he is a firm believer in not dating until being engaged because of how intimate kissing is and how it really is important in a serious relationship. Initially when he told me this I was shocked and was not for it. I mean, of course, I’ve been looking forward to kissing my first boyfriend for a while. In reading this blog also, I am tending to read a lot of stories from moms who have already messed around with kissing before marriage or whatever and not wanting their children to do it. That’s all fine and honorable, but I want some sympathizers. It sucks waiting, and its not easy.

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  76. Melody says:

    I’m not even sure if people still read this or not! But I came across this as I searched on Google what the Bible said about kissing. Along with many of you I do feel as though kissing is something that should really be reserved for marriage. I may be young, but in the Bible God talks about how much He loves the little children and wants them to come to him (Matthew 19:14). Quite frankly it doesn’t matter what my opinion about the subject is. But what does matter is all of you who call yourselves Christians and then you bash on one another. One of the most important things the Bible talks about is love (John 13:34-35, Matthew 5:46, and Luke 6:27-36). And that’s only a few. If you were truly living your lives by these verses, you would just love. You wouldn’t be in one’s business about how they should feel, or act. If you think kissing before marriage is wrong or right, however you feel, than that’s your own opinion. That’s for you to have, and for nobody else to judge you with. I’m not speaking at any one person, but as I was reading through these comments it disgusted me as to how these so called “Christians” are acting towards each other. It’s the Holy Spirits job to convict, not ours to condemn.

  77. Irene says:

    I think it is really sad that whenever Christians speak of if kissing, hugging and the like are ok they fail to go to the one SCRIPTURE that DOES FORBID IT in…

    1 Corinthians 7:1

    1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

    2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication…

    Is kissing touching? YES.

    Seriously, even without the scripture I KNOW those with the Holy Spirit KNOW they have no business kissing and hugging a man that is not their husband or a woman that is not their wife.

  78. Sam G says:

    what if my girlfriend is waiting till her wedding day for that first kiss on the lips… but she allows a kiss on the cheek? to express this affection towards one another and keeping this expression within strict boundaries…. like when I leave to go home, I give her a kiss on the cheek… and saying with that kiss, goodbye and I love you…then my departure.. I feel keeping these strict boundaries, and with the holy spirits convicting ways… her and I can successfully avoid situations(adultery) God has helped me over the years keep myself pure, and I thank him for that! and I now know love… I’m 19, “oh but you don’t know love there son”… but I believe you can have a healthy dating relationship at my age.. and be responsible enough to set your own boundaries and love each other… seeing past what good is put before you physically… and you can finally see whats beyond exterior appearance( and what you have to look forward to after your wedding day) then you can start finding things that you respect, admire, trust etc 🙂 about this one of the opposite sex! or should I say gender

    • Jaylynn says:

      I agree with you. I myself believe that it’s okay to kiss on the cheek, but the lips must be saved until my wedding day. I set this as a boundary (unmovable and unsolvable) with every relationship I will have. Yea, some people will want to share that first kiss with you, but you gotta be firm about it. There is a song called Cute by Canton Jones that fits well with this topic. Stay blessed:)

  79. Travis says:

    It IS possible to kiss your girlfriend/boyfriend without impure thoughts or intentions.
    Heather, your statement about being set apart as Cristians is totally out of context and silly. “Worldly” people workout – Shoud I not go to the gym and choose not to workout to be more set apart? Absolutely not! Same goes for hugging my friends/girlfriend, or kissing my girlfriend.

    DTR: Determine The Relationship. If you are wanting to honor God with your relationship, talk often with your girlfriend/boyfriend about physical boundaries.

    After my girlfriend and I pray together after a night out, we get out of the car, I walk her to her door, and we share a hug and a kiss. Whenever this occurs, do I believe God is disappointed in my actions? Absolutely not.

    Temptation is not a sin, but acting on that temptation is a sin.

    Have there been times where I was temptated to go further than kissing? Absolutely. I am a guy and that’s what happens, there’s no way around it. Did I commit a sin in that situation? Absolutely not; because I did not act on my temptation.

    In a God-honoring dating relationship, kissing is not wrong. If anyone has any biblical passages to prove my statement wrong, I would be more than happy to hear them.

  80. Rick says:

    Em happy with d various conclusions drawn up here.Em 18 n i havent kissed or dated(not cuz of some rigid beliefs).But comments of two or three people av really helped since following them(d comments) ryt 4rm last year.

  81. Jaylynn says:

    Hi, I’m 15 and I decided not to kiss before marriage. When I was younger, I read a book about it and ever since then, I’ve felt led not to kiss before marriage. Now, I do have many friends who have decided to kiss before marriage and I understand that it isn’t in the Bible. I believe that God calls each of us to do different things. For me I believe that it’s not to kiss. You can’t keep a person from kissing by keeping them locked up and protected for the rest of their lives. You can only instill in them the teachings of the Lord and the rest is up to them. I understand that you want the best for your babies, but their relationship with God is up to them. So for the subject, kissing or not, I think that it is discretionary. The negatives are that you will never be able to “be like everyone else” and fit in, but aren’t Christians supposed to be examples of a higher living? The positives will be that you will have more than one “first time” with your spouse, you protect yourself from catching mono from other kissing partners, and you’ll protect yourself from arousing sexual feelings. Now, not kissing won’t keep you from lusting at the same time it can be the reason for lusting. You have to pray and put God first in all things. So if God calls you not to kiss, then don’t, but if He doesn’t call you to save it for your marriage, consider it anyway. It has more long-term benefits than short-term negatives.

  82. Francesca says:

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  83. Eva says:

    Many things, in fact most things, in life can be used for good or for evil. Music can either uplift or detract. A pencil can be used to write good words or bad words. It all depends on the person using it. I believe that the same thing is true for kissing. Kissing can either show love or lust, depending on the person and how it is used. I am 17, and my parents have taught me to save my kisses, but that doesn’t mean never giving one away. Kissing can, and should, be used to express love and affection. And I don’t think that kissing is used exclusively as “foreplay.” It definitely can be, but so can many other good things. Again, kissing should be used as a declaration of love. You tell someone you love them before you are married, so I think it is definitely okay to kiss before you are married.

  84. Anna says:

    I would just like to say that I believe that trying to draw a line of no kissing before marriage is crazy and unrealistic. Both my younger brother, 16, and myself have kissed people before and it was part of a committed relationship. I am 20 now and my parents have bone the best job raising my brother and myself compared to anyone else I know. My strict Christian aunt and uncle ended up raising an atheist and an indifferent child because they tried to push it down their children’s throats too far. I am a devout Christian who attends church and tries her best to live a godly life. I believe that sex is for marriage but for me kissing or holding hands isn’t about sex…it’s how i feel like I am cared for. I wouldn’t do anything I would be ashamed my parents know about and in fact I share every aspect of my relationship with them. It may not always happen but children often rebel when you force too strict and unreasonable rules or expectations on them. Unfortunately I have seen in happen to my own family and I personally will never tell my children they can’t kiss before marriage because there has to be a line and that for me is crossing it. I’m sorry but it is impossible to take a literal view of everything in the bible. There are many things that Christians today would say. Are wrong but they were permissible in the bible..even required in some cases. The most well adjusted children are those raised with good morals but whose parents don’t pretend that the outside world doesn’t exist. It is better to prepare your children with how to deal. With the outside world and it’s temptations and influences than to put them in a Christian bubble and bury your head in the sand as if pretending the big bad world can’t get to your children if you ignore it’s existence. Prepare your children to be responsible. Teach them how to handle themselves in the real world and how to stay strong in their morals despite temptation. Giving ultimatums and strict boundaries often leads to teens sneaking around and going behind your back. I’d rather have a child who feels they can discuss their relationship with me and tell me they have kissed someone than a child who will have a secret relationship or possible lie about their kissing or physical relationships out of fear.

  85. Konnie says:

    The blog was very well written and I have been reading through the comments…. It actually came at such a good time for me. I was raised in a Christian home with the principles of saving sex for marriage.. but kissing and hand holding, etc, was never part of the discussion. So at 15, when I started “dating”, physical intimacy quickly were crossed. I was pregnant before getting married the first time. Divorced after 7 years as I had only known him a few months before we got married. Then quickly married again within weeks of the divorce, to try to have that feeling again of being married. Two years later, that too ended… I wasn’t living by any Christian standards… I didn’t feel wanted as a person by a man, unless there was physical intimacy, so I quickly rushed into it. 7 years ago, I got myself right with God, and realized that the current relationship I was in, was all backwards. As I tried to set boundaries, it eventually was too difficult to mentally deal with, so I finally was able to let it go so that God could take control of my heart and life completely without any hidden parts and secrets. I didn’t want to know the 10 commandments and knowingly refuse to follow one….. Soooo…. With now 29 years of physical intimacy being how I thought love was, I am friends with a Christian man who is such a beautiful Christian and leader in the friendship, and he keeps boundaries the way that I believe God designed it. No hand holding, no kissing, no hugs, etc.. Completely hands off…. And while I feel blessed in this as it gives us the ability to get to know each other without all the complications, I am left still questioning my worth (which I know is a product of so many years of baggage and false beliefs)…. I continue to ask God to let Him remind me of my worth, and to keep my eyes and heart on Him, rather than a worldly relationship. If we can’t control our bodies and emotions in the friendship building, then it destroys trust for a future relationship. I am praying that God will keep us both looking to Him for our needs and that we don’t forget who directs our paths… I really pray that someone else who may read this, can realize that God instructs us to control our bodies and save sex for marriage. Anything that could tempt us, should be eliminated as so many commenters have said.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Thank you so much for sharing your story. I share some of your deep struggles and similar baggage. I am so grateful that “He gives beauty for ashes”, yet the scars do remain and it is one reason I am so burdened to help other parents steer their children clear of this unintended mess.

  86. jane says:

    I am more worried about the “lie” taught by the Christian culture that refraining while courting, then going from 0 to 60 in one night is just fine and dandy and everything will be amazing. THAT simply isn’t true and should be peputated as such. Also the purity culture is extremely debilating to young women when all their worth is tied up in their virginity.

    You may have felt lied to, but please don’t lump all people in that group as I dating, and kissing, but saved sex for my husband. SOME of us CAN refrain.

  87. Whew! I started reading all the comments, and there are so many! I will say here that I read your blog and find your thoughts to be spot on. I am so thankful that you speak up to the issues that NEED to be addressed, even if that means some folks don’t like it. I particularly liked the “freak” post — it was like you took the words from me and put the down! Thank you!

  88. Patricia says:

    Reading some of the blogs…Wow!! I have a teenage daughter whom thru our Lord helped me to raise her according to Him, for Him, and thru Him. I’ve taught her that dating is not biblical and to research for herself what God and the world has to say about it. It didn’t take long for God’s wisdom to reveal His truth to her. She watched, asked questions, read, and prayed for years. Middle school and high school, and now college she has seen and heard a lot. The result, the spiritual warfare is greater than imaged, she is saving her first kiss for her wedding day and praying the same for the husband that she is trusting God to give her to. Like Christ she was judged, tempted, threaten, talked about, mocked, isolated, setup, women’s lib taunted and challenged and by many who were Christians. And I had experienced the same treatment. None these folks ever backed up their “Me, myself, and I” statements, comments, judgements, etc with God’s word, or they tried to and it had always boiled down to pleasing Their understanding or Their will. Our focus is Christ. Like our love, Christ, my daughter stood on the power of God. As we look at those that came against her it’s sad how they are living now. Their dating adventures have led to sorrows, broken hearts, depression, drugs, counseling suicide attempts, lying, parent haters, fornication, many partners (kissing or sexing), etc. all in the name of who??? Some have married and regret ever dating (usually equals kissing and hugging and commitment) because satan uses their past partners to negatively affect their marriage (after all that is his job to Destroy what God has created. Why not trap Christians into the dating realm as a perfect setup to what he plans to accomplish….doesn’t Romans 1 give us a take on that?) Non-Christians look at this and ask “Why should I be a Christian there’s no difference?” Another thing I’ve taught my daughter is when someone is dating and kissing they are doing it with someone else’s spouse. Yes, some Christians say “But I’m committed to marrying that person anyway, so we can kiss before marriage”…yet, others say the same about sex. Some say “You’re being strict” I say “Satan basically told Adam and Eve that about God”. Some ask “How do you know that your daughter is doing otherwise behind your back?” I say “God is in control of all things not I. My daughter is His.” Yesterday some girls had asked my daughter if she was gay because she’s not liking or chasing any guy’s…she told me what she said. What a testimony that pointed those girls to Christ and gave them food for thought and change of prayers. Mind you, these teen girls are all Christians. So, the world and even Christians stand against my daughter, and I but hey, they’re doing it unto Christ. We rejoice and wait on Him…he truly blesses my daughters obedience unto Him. By the way, many teens I’ve talked to are hating and hurting in the dating and sexing arena. When I share with them on how I’ve raised my daughter on the dating issue, and virginity to after marriage, they are wow’ed, teared up, shocked, questioning, angry at the world, and reflect upon God & Christ. So, thru Christ, as for me and my house, we WILL serve the Lord God giving ALL glory to Him. Another point, I have being moved not to refer to myself as a Christian and my daughter is doing the same. Because EVERYONE is a Christian in America today. Note our presidency. ‘Sin all you want, don’t judge the sin, live how you think is best, and if you love it do it, deeply want it take it, and think it’s right/good then go for it, God will bless you, He will give you what you want, and encourage you to force everyone else to agree with you. God is to conform to you not the other way around. So put ‘me, myself, and I’ first…now that’s Christian…according to the world… Oh and make sure you attend some religious function and give some money to proof yourself good, holy, and righteous. Deeply!! We now refer to ourselves as Follower’s of Jesus Christ. This way His name is mentioned and their’s not mistake or shame as to who we serve. Here’s a thought, the issue of bra’s and pants, rather, Christians wearing bikini’s in public places. Peace…may Christ truly be Lord of your life and you seek to serve Him always with your all. Bless Him 🙂

  89. Mandy says:

    I am 14, and have not begun dating yet, and was looking up good Christian guidelines so I am prepared and mature for when I do begin dating. I believe that times have changed, but kissing (not the making out kind) is still a symbol of love and affection.

    Love is not a feeling, but is choosing the high test good for the other person. This definition can be used to define love for family, friends, or a bf-gf/husband-wife. If it were a feeling…:Say, my brother accidentally broke my favorite necklace or something. If love was based on feelings, I would not love him right then. Based on the definition of love I used, I would probably FEEL mad or disappointed, but I would still love him.

    This being said, (romantic?-kind-of, not-family-related) kissing is a way of distinguishing the difference between the love between friends or family and love between bf-gf/husband-wife. I would not want to kiss a boy until I was at least interested in a deeper relationship (past the casual dating)and until I knew myself and the boy well enough to know we were both capable of controlling ourselves.

    I have advised a few of my friends that seem to constantly jump from one relationship to another at such a young age is fruitless. One thing I have said is that the purpose of dating is to find who you are going to marry. If you would never consider marrying the boy you are dating, and are only doing so because he’s cute, etc. the relationship is not worthwhile.

    HOWEVER, I believe this has been taken much too literally with many girls that go out on a first date trying to decide if the boy would be good about helping with the dishes. Obviously, if they are still young they may have not fully matured yet anyway. I would not think too hard about a boy’s husband-like qualities (like the dishes example) until much much further into the relationship.

    What I do mean by my statement about only dating boys you would consider marrying is looking for the qualities that are important to you (even the early signs of developing qualities; as I said, some, scratch that, MOST high school boys are not fully mature). I look for qualities such as respect, a reliance on and relationship with God, the ability to keep a promise, etc.

    I believe the defining qualities are most easily seen in the way he treats his mother, his father, his best friend, and his best friend’s girlfriend (i.e. really any girl; does he hold open the door, treat them well, etc.).

    I would love to hear any thoughts about the beliefs I’ve stated or if anyone has anything they believe is a must characteristic for a potential dating partner.

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  93. Angie says:

    Kisses can lead to more, but is guess my concern is who does your bady belong to? God- absolutely! But secondly, your body belongs to YOU. If you choose not to kiss because you don’t want too- great. But your body doesn’t belong to your husband. You SHARE your body with him after marriage, but it still belongs to YOU.

    First kisses are so special, I would not want it to be shared with the world. If it means that much and is a personal, private, big deal thing then I might suggest the Jewish idea of seclusion immediately after the ceremony. My husband and I did this. We walked out of the sanctuary- and to a small room at the church. We kissed and chatted for 10 minutes alone to really let it all sink in before facing our guests for the reception. In a day filled with people, it was OUR special 10 minutes of just us gushing and kissing and laughing.

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