text:
For teens at the NorthPark Center mall in Dallas, there’s no more whiling away the hours loitering at the food court with their school chums. If kids under the age of 18 want to hang at the mall after 6:00 p.m., they now have to do it with parents in tow.

“I really do respect that there are parents who may not agree with us completely,” a NorthPark spokesman tells CBS Dallas-Fort Worth. “I can tell you that we’ve also spoken with all of the merchants in NorthPark and they think this a very good idea.”

The mall will randomly check IDs of unaccompanied teens. If they are 17 or under and sans parent or guardian, they’ll be asked to leave or to have said parent/guardian come join them in their evening revels.

Teens heading to the movie theater will be exempt while they are actually at the movie, but if they want to linger in the mall afterward, they are out of luck.

And obviously, those teens who work in the mall would not need to have their parents standing nearby while they work.

Edit Your Comment

  1. phrekyos says:

    What’s a mall?

    • YamiNoSenshi says:

      It’s where you go to decide what you want to buy from Amazon.

    • Dave B. says:

      A place where misbehaving teens hang out sans parents, apparently.

    • ShadowJack says:
    • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:
    • 8bithero says:

      Malls come from a time of legends past.

      Once, in the nation of America, there were vast stretches of land that were used for commerce. One mythical location where one could purchase shoes, video games, knock off cell phone covers, and warm, soft pretzels all in one location.

      Legend has it that The Internet made shopping easier and cheaper. No longer were the people of America forced to endure the unwashed throngs of their fellow pork beasts! They could now purchase their goods from vendors the world over.

      Since being restricted to being able to purchase what was only offered locally was now a thing of the past, many a mall was closed.

      Not all, however. There still remained the elusive “dirt mall”.

      The dirt mall is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Should one require fake gold, knock off electronics, made for tv goods, or a stabbing the dirt mall would be the destination of choice.

    • Jawaka says:

      mall – [mawl; Brit. also mal]
      1. Also called shopping mall. a large retail complex containing a variety of stores and often restaurants and other business establishments housed in a series of connected or adjacent buildings or in a single large building. Compare shopping center.

    • Thyme for an edit button says:
    • CommonSense(à² _à² ) says:

      That is such a stupid question that it cant even be sarcastic.
      How do you not know what a mall is?

    • noahproblem1 says:

      It’s a big building with shoppers – but that’s not important right now…

  2. j2.718ff says:

    “NorthPark management says the new teen policy has nothing to do with complaints filed by shoppers.”

    So they’re just doing it because they hate kids?

    • cowboyesfan says:

      No, they hate poor people.

      /Niemans and Tiffany’s hate it when the riff-raff clog up thier stores there.

    • Nobody can say "Teehee" with a straight face says:

      I’d guess it was more spurred by complaints from the vendors, or from vendors unwilling to move in / renew their lease due to issues with teenagers screwing around/stealing/fighting/gang turf wars.

      • OutPastPluto says:

        This is a prissy upscale mall. It’s not like something out of The Warriors.

        They are chasing off a bunch of spoiled rich kids with more money than sense.

        • Nobody can say "Teehee" with a straight face says:

          Oh, then all the more likely it’s from the vendors. They probably don’t like the kids spoiling their brand image by loitering.

        • Doubting thomas says:

          Correction, it is a prissy upscale mall in a neighborhood that as gone from good to bad, to worse, to scary. It is not the rich kids that shop there they are trying to boot out. It is the thugs and wanna-be thugs that scare off the paying the customers.

        • Random_Tangent says:

          Isn’t that exactly the kind of people you want in a large space devoted solely to commerce?

        • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

          Not true. There are many, many low income gang banger types who take the bus and hang out. It’s the closest mall to the poorest areas in town.

        • vivalakellye says:

          It is NOT that upscale. Half of the mall consists of normal chain stores that you can find in nearly every mall in America. The disruptive teens don’t really visit the other half of the mall, save for the duck ponds outside of Neiman’s.

    • 180CS says:

      Of course. Not only are younger people usually more disruptive, it’s also much easier to suck money out of a college student than a highschooler. That is of course unless the highscoller has mom/dad to suck money out of. And in that case…they are still allowed, provided their parental ATM is with them to shell out at a moments notice.

    • Costner says:

      The complaints likely came from the tenants. Teens are responsible for the vast majority of issues in malls including fights, theft, disruptive behavior, and creating an atmosphere many more mature shoppers would rather avoid.

      I’ve seen these teen bans in other malls, and most of the time once they are enacted the stores actually see their sales increase, and their losses due to theft and property damage drop significantly.

      I’d love to live in a world where this type of rule wasn’t necessary, but when you have teens running amok in a mall with no parents in sight (and parents at home or elsewhere who don’t seem to really care)… something has to be done.

  3. VintageLydia says:

    A mall back home did this to try to do away with large groups of “young people” that are apparently intimidating to people. Many of these groups were over the age of 18, however, so it didn’t fix much and since the ban still stands, it just irritates the local teenagers and their parents.

    • jsl4980 says:

      The mall closest to me put this rule in place a few years ago. Before the rule was in place there were always cop cars at every entrance responding to fights, muggings, and thefts. Now that the rule has been in place for a while there doesn’t seem to be anywhere near as many problems. The mall owners, store owners, and shoppers would all prefer to have adults who are intent on buying something rather than groups of bored kids who don’t intend to buy anything.

      • LadySiren is murdering her kids with HFCS and processed cheese says:

        We have the same rule at our local mall and I’m actually happy that it’s in place. It’s cut down on a lot of the issues (fights, etc.) that seemed to pop up regularly.

  4. AngryK9 says:

    The fake ID market in that area just skyrocketed.

    • 180CS says:

      If you wanted a fake ID just to go shop at a ‘dime-a-dozen’ store, boy are you in for a surprise when you learn what a bar is..

  5. AtlantaCPA says:

    I guess they can’t go buy mother’s day presents as easily huh? Have to convince dad to go with you, and hopefully there is a dad in the picture.

    • bluline says:

      All they have to do is shop before 6:00 p.m. There is no parental accompaniment rule before that time.

      • AtlantaCPA says:

        That’s why I said “as easily” and not “impossible”. When I was a teen I was busy during the weekend day and could only go shopping at night (and during the week there is school of course). Granted not everyone is like that but it just struck me as funny that this comes out right before the big “buy your mom a present” day.

    • BigDragon says:

      Just because the mall is enforcing this rule does not mean the individual stores are. JCPenny isn’t going to throw out a teen shopping on their own past 6 PM. This is more designed to stop people from accumulating at the doors to the mall hallways. There’s a “wolf pack” that loves to do that around here and it’s easy to see how they can be intimidating to older people trying to visit the restaurants.

    • sgtyukon says:

      My kids always wanted to go shopping with their Dad for Mother’s Day presents because they discovered very early that if they went with Dad to shop for Mother’s Day, the amount of money they had to spend on that present magically increased.

  6. Corinthos says:

    Sucks for the retailers that have clothing store popular by teens. Sure that would take some sales away from gamestops also.
    A similar ban happened in my area years ago and I remember seeing tons of signs posted all over. Went to the mall 2 months later and they were gone and so was the ban.
    Could see it also angering parents who sometimes take their teens to malls and the later meet them at the store when they are ready to pay. When I worked for Holister about 7 years ago this occured a lot. No one wants to be in a store waiting for others to try on clothes when they could just be doing their own shopping at that time.

    • Lisse24 says:

      A mall in my parents area did this a few years ago.
      Worked out great for the teen-oriented stores, because the source of the cash flow for said teens was right there.

    • curiositykt says:

      I was at the mall last night at 7pm. It was pretty amazingly empty. They could have used hordes of teens wandering around, at least they’d buy snacks!

    • Jawaka says:

      lol so it angers the parents who use the mall as their babysitters?

      • VintageLydia says:

        Older teens don’t need babysitters. Hell, younger teens can generally be left alone for a few hours as well. What the hell happened in the last 10 years since I was a 16 year old with money burning a hole in my pocket that suddenly absolutely no teenager can be trusted with anything ever? Who the hell does the babysitting anymore? Works at the local McDonald’s or other low-end retail jobs? I know not all teens everywhere are responsible human beings but something has gone terribly wrong in a frighteningly short period of time for things to have deteriorated so much so fast.

  7. Red_Eye says:

    Our mall does this, makes it feel safer and much less thuggish It used to be crowded with hundreds of teens who didnt shop, just loitered. This makes me more willing to shop there, especially since the mall forbids me from using my concealed weapon at all.

    • AustinTXProgrammer says:

      About the only large shopping place around here I can’t take my gun is Ikea.

      • Princess Beech loves a warm cup of treason every morning says:

        They have guns all ready for assembly? :P

    • erinpac says:

      I rarely go to Arbor Place anymore. 10 years past their age cutoff, and I still get stopped every 10 feet for my ID. They give you such a hard time about it; even trying to claim that the ID is false at times. So, I just don’t want to be there after ‘curfew’, and that is most of the shopping time I have. Oh well, Amazon is a pretty good replacement, and without so many window shopping impulse buys.
      It just feels like they do not want you to shop there if you DARE wear jeans or something instead of a suit (I get quite enough of that at work; I’m not dressing up to shop). I may look a little young, but not THAT young, and some of my friends could not possibly be mistaken for teenagers.

    • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

      In places where I can’t carry a gun, I carry one of these:

      Not as good as a .357 but better than nothing. ;-D

    • RickN says:

      >>the mall forbids me from using my concealed weapon at all.

      The malls here attempt to forbid, but since the signage in Georgia isn’t legally binding, I ignore ithem. If Paul Blart catches me he’ll ask me to leave, but concealed is concealed.

    • TuxMan says:

      Tired of the Douglas Co thugs with their ass hanging out of their pants. Can’t wait for the new jail to house these future inmates. Go be with your people at Greenbriar Mall.

  8. Hi_Hello says:

    if you are 18 and they ask for an ID and you can’t provide one 9 (or don’t want to) and they kick you out, is there any thing you can do about it?

    • atomix says:

      Probably not. My guess is that the mall is private property and your permission to be on that property can be revoked for any reason except for discrimination against legally protected classes.

      …Unless Age is a protected class? I’m not sure about that. It may vary by state.

      • Hi_Hello says:

        what if they did this to a bunch of Asian people? the Asian claim it’s because they are Asian and not because they are under 18 because they are all 25.

      • AtlantaCPA says:

        I think federally age is a protected class but it only applies if you’re over 40. So really the protected class is ‘old age’. No help there for teens.

  9. Tim says:

    Huh. The TV station didn’t talk to anyone under 18, or even close to 18, for that matter. I think that’d be a very important voice in the matter, no?

    • OSAM says:

      Nope. Fuck’em.

    • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

      Why should they get a voice? People under 18 aren’t the paying customers at the mostly upscale stores at this mall. I rarely see teens at the stores (although I have seen a few busted for shoplifting.) They are scaring off paying customers (like my husband and I) who like to shop and eat there on Friday and Saturday nights. If they asked me, I would have told them good riddance.

    • Gamma1099 says:

      The oppressed never have a voice.

  10. Blueskylaw says:

    “Teens heading to the movie theater will be exempt while they are actually at the movie, but if they want to linger in the mall afterward, they are out of luck”

    So essentially, if the teens are not spending money and are not carrying bulging bags full of overpriced Abercrombie shirts then they are not welcome.

    • bluline says:

      Correct. The mall is a business site. It’s entire existence is based on selling merchandise. What, did you think it was something else, like a park or a playground?

    • Maltboy wanders aimlessly through the Uncanny Valley says:

      Yes because the mall should be an open dumping ground for lazy parents who don’t want to be bothered with managing the children they brought into this world.

  11. axhandler1 says:

    Suppose I go to the mall with my underage kid and a friend, and just say meet me in front of Chick-fil-a in like 2 hours? If they are in the mall, do they have to be physically occompanied by a parent at all times, or is it more like taking your kid to an R rated movie, where they just need the parents to get in?

    • cosmic.charlie says:

      That is a good question. Are they going to be checking ID’s to get in the door or are there going to be roaming security guards stopping people at random?

      In Saudi Arabia I have seen security guards at the malls turn away groups of teenagers because they (supposedly) want to keep it more family friendly. Looks like this mall if following suit.

    • bluline says:

      Yes, the kids must be physically accompanied by the parents at all times if it’s after 6:00 p.m. If it’s before 6:00 the parents and kids can split up, but not after 6:00.

  12. Hi_Hello says:

    mall are dying…they should redesign themselves for teenagers for them hang out and SPEND money on the weekday. And some sections for parents or adults to do during the weekend.

    • Whiskey Tango Foxtrot says:

      Other than the occasional burger and fries, the teens in my neighborhood rarely do much shopping, especially in the evening. I’m hoping this catches on – there have been times I’ve gone to the mall and witnessed groups of teens harassing other shoppers just because they think its “cool.”

    • Round-Eye å¤–äººã¯ã‚³ãƒ³ã‚¹ãƒžãƒªãƒƒã‚¹ãƒˆãŒå¥½ãã§ã™ã€‚ says:

      I think that’s the point here; these kids AREN’T buying things and spending money. They’re using it as a rumpus room to hang out with their friends. And their presence is probably driving would-be customers away.

  13. Kryndis says:

    Sounds like all you really need to do is bring a bag of stuff to the mall with you. I’d bet as long as you aren’t creating a disturbance and appear to be spending money they’ll never card you.

  14. bluline says:

    There are a couple of malls where I live that need this policy. They have been taken over by roving gangs who don’t spend money, who fight among themselves (they have turf battles in and around the mall), and who intimidate other shoppers by walking four and five abreast while daring anyone else not to step aside for them. A number of stores in these malls sit empty because shoppers are afraid to go there. I hope this policy works for the Dallas mall, but if the problem is anything like where I live, they’ll need uniformed cops to enforce it. Your standard-issue mall security guard isn’t up to the task.

    • Pagan wants a +1 button says:

      We have a mall like that where I live, too. It’s actually been sold several times but retailers won’t move in because nobody seems to be able to get rid of the thugs.

      The problem is way too serious for a simple ban to work; they’d need to replace roving gangs of thugs with roving gangs of cops.

  15. polishhillbilly says:

    the mall was so 1993…

  16. bhr says:

    I have no problem with this. In my last town the mall became almost unshoppable in the evenings thanks to large packs of teenagers that intimidated paying customers/vandalized cars/got into fights. Places like Dave and Busters have been able to limit younger customers in this way for years, so I don’t see it as a huge stretch if the mall (and the businesses, who drive the decision) opt for this.

    I do seem to recall a law about this though, and a court ruling that said malls, at least the general areas, are public accommodations and can’t limit customers, so I do wonder if this holds up in courts.

  17. homehome says:

    They did this in my hometown and I agreed with it. Youth is getting out of control and the parents are slacking more now than ever. Fact is I stopped going to the mailing 80% because of this and ppl around my age there (25) stopped going a good bit because of the same thing and the older folks who have excess money and want to spend it and it was hitting their bottom line.

    Those kids all they did was take up space, fight, steal and make it an unpleasant place to be.

  18. Southern says:

    They also implemented a dress code. “Any clothing that covers the face and clothes that show underwear would violate the code of conduct”.

    They say they’re not doing this because of any specific incident, but just “following the lead of many malls around the country” and that “100% of their retailers support the change”.

    Personally, I think it’s a crock. A 16 year old can have a drivers license, so can drive themselves to the mall, but can’t go inside to hit the food court or the bookstore? Doesn’t sound right.

    Man.. Certainly wasn’t like this when I was 16 back in the early 80’s.. Long time ago I know, but it feels like a different century these days.

    (Granted, I know it IS (20 vs 21st), but I mean it feels like 100+ years.)

    • bluline says:

      All they have to do is pull their pants up and pull the hoodie off their heads. Is that so difficult?

      • Southern says:

        I wasn’t referring to the dress code as being a crock – just throwing it out there because it’s not in the original story.

        I think it’s a crock that a 17 year old can have a drivers license, but can’t go to the mall.

        It’s been a long time since I was that age (early 80’s), and I lived on my own (College @ 16). Had my own car (bought with my own money), and parents lived 100+ miles away. Calling them to “accompany” me to the mall would have been out of the question.

        Wasn’t a lot of gang activity there tho, so I guess I was pretty much isolated from that; I pretty much hung out with the “Geek Crowd” anyway.

        Just a different time, I guess. Makes me fear what’s going to be going on in this country in the next 30 years, though.

        • Maltboy wanders aimlessly through the Uncanny Valley says:

          They can’t go to a bar, an adult bookstore, or a liquor store either. Any problems with that?

          • VintageLydia says:

            Since it’s actually illegal for certain age groups to participate in those activities but not illegal for teens to shop in a shopping mall, I think there is a big fat difference.

          • Southern says:

            What Lydia said. There are laws on the books that prohibit those, and while I may disagree with the age restriction (21 vs. 18), I don’t disagree that there are certain places that a teenager has no business being.. A mall just isn’t one of them, though.

            What’s next? No 17 year olds on the beach after 6pm? No 17 year olds at Walmart after 6pm? No 17 year olds at Dennys after 6pm?

            There are already curfew laws in certain cities (like Los Angeles) where it’s illegal for anyone under 18 to be out past 10:00pm. But let’s just make it “from sundown to sunrise” because that’s ever better, no?

            I dunno. I can understand the reasoning behind it, as I was raised with the “You have no business being out past midnight unless you’re looking for trouble” mentality, and of course the constant TV commercials “It’s 2:00am, do you know where your son or daughter is?”.

            I guess I just see it as a form of discrimination. Just because someone is 17 years old doesn’t mean they’re at a mall to cause trouble. If they were to say “No black kids under 18 allowed in the mall after 6pm”, everyone would have a problem with it.. but because they’re banning ALL kids under 18, somehow it’s ok..

          • RecordStoreToughGuy_RidesTheWarpOfSpaceIntoTheWombOfNight says:

            Those all sell items that are age-restricted. General goods, like clothing, book, electronics, and other merchandise that normally can be found at a mall aren’t. Not a good analogy, really.

        • shepd says:

          Those who choose to emancipate themselves early face the risks inherent in such a decision and should not complain about them, as it was, after all, a choice.

      • Gamma1099 says:

        Bluline, the hoodie rule is one of the dumbest ones to come along (at least until this age discrimination one arrived). Once I find out a mall has a hoodie rule, I never go there again.

    • j2.718ff says:

      “Any clothing that covers the face and clothes that show underwear would violate the code of conduct”.

      I guess Batman is no longer welcome there.

      • Selunesmom says:

        That’s opening themselves up for religious discrimination right there by banning women in burquas.

  19. gafpromise says:

    This is more common than you would think. Why exactly is this news?

    • Riroon13 says:

      At least one mall in New Orleans has had a similar rule for five or so years now — 16 or under on a Friday or Saturday after 4pm must be with an adult. This rule arose out of the fact parents were dropping kids off (as young as 10) at the movie theater, and before/ after shows it was chaos in the corridors. Fights with each other, joining in fights with others, damage to property/stores/cars.

    • dru_zod says:

      One mall in my area put something like this in place I guess about 10 or 12 years ago. I don’t know if they still enforce it, but I definitely remember seeing signs up at every entrance to the mall stating this policy.

  20. bhr says:

    I want to follow up. My guess is if you are with a small group and are shopping, being civilized and not creating any nuisance then the mall won’t ask for an ID. They just want the rules in place in case they want to kick people out.

    These rules are basically like “Stop and Frisk” laws, they only get applied to people that the authorities feel are likely to cause problems or are actually causing problems. This can lead very easily into a case of profiling/discrimination, so the malls are going to have to be very careful with enforcement.

  21. Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

    Wonderful idea. So now instead of teens hanging out in a safe, well-lit place full of adults they’ll be driven to hang out in darker, seedier parts of town without any supervision whatsoever. I mean really. What’s the big f*cking deal? What are they doing that’s so terrible as to warrant a 6:00 p.m. (6:00 P.M.!!!) curfew?

    “And obviously, those teens who work in the mall would not need to have their parents standing nearby while they work.”

    Right. As long as the teens are working for the same douche bags that approve of a policy against teens it’s okay. Otherwise, f*ck off back to your house.

    “NorthPark management says the new teen policy has nothing to do with complaints filed by shoppers.”

    Okay, then what the f*ck? I really hope word gets out and this place becomes a ghost town in six months. Assholes.

    • bluline says:

      As I said above, a couple of the local malls are no longer safe nor supervised because the adults no longer go there. They are intimidated by the thug gangs who are battling over turf, both inside and outside the mall. There have even been a couple of shootings. You couldn’t drag me, a mature adult, within ten miles of those malls on a weekend night. No way.

      • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

        If certain teens are breaking the law they should be dealt with. The cops, mall security, FBI, whatever, should get off their fat asses and do their jobs. Imposing a curfew for teens who aren’t causing trouble and have nothing to do with gangs is both lazy and stupid.

        Would you like it if you were told you couldn’t do something because of a few punk asses with nothing better to do? I doubt it.

        • homehome says:

          I wouldn’t like it, but if that was what it was so be it. Being a black male, trust me I have to deal with the streotypes men in my race and my ancestors have created for me every where I go. Cops look at me first, I’ve been approach and detained for looking suspcious, I’ve been stopped because I have car that looks like it should be out of my income reach, I’ve been stopped and looked at suspiciously because I like hoodies. I’ve been scoffed at and had disrespectful comments sent my way because I see nothing wrong with dating white women. But even with all that, I have pride, a career, degrees, money, a clean record, talent, a future and common sense let all that roll off my back becau

          • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

            “Cops look at me first, I’ve been approach and detained for looking suspcious…”

            And you know what? That’s wrong. The same as it is here. That’s my point. Shrugging and saying, “Well, as long as we get rid of the gang element, I guess it’s okay to punish the other 98% of teens who didn’t do anything.” Wrong. Like I said: if someone’s breaking the law, arrest them. Don’t come down with a broadsword policy on everyone because of a few assholes. Fine them. Make them do community service. Do something to deter the behavior of the offenders and leave everyone else the f*ck alone.

            • homehome says:

              I don’t know this particular mall’s situation, but in the malls around in my area, I personally saw more kids who were causing the problem than wasn’t. For the kids who acted like they had home training, you’re right, that sucks. Not their fault, but if the problem is overwhelmingly a specific group (like it is in my city) and you see more of them causing the problem, then it becomes a majority issue where it’s probably best to come down with the broad sword. One rotten egg can spoil the bunch.

              • VintageLydia says:

                Are you sure that’s not confirmation bias, though? Often we (as in, people in general) are more likely to remember things like the thugs walking around actively harassing shoppers and blocking access to vendors and not the teens who are minding their own business in small groups of two or three. If it isn’t upsetting to us or particularly pleasing, it’s not memorable. It’s why rating for restaurants and such are either going to be very bad or very good with little in between.

                • homehome says:

                  I actually counted, because back then I wasn’t too far from their age myself I actually counted and it was 33 teens being knuckleheads and 28 not bothering anybody, the fact it was that close appauled me. When I did this I was 19 myself.

            • DrLumen says:

              Yes, it always so easy to find the kids tagging everything in sight, destroying property (like clothes), organizing flash teen mobs to steal. This just gives the mall and the law a tool to use for enforcement. I don’t have a problem with it. Plus the kids can still go before 6:00PM so it’s not like they are totally locked out.

              I worked in property management for years. When one of the theaters in a shopping center raised the prices and so many kids were turned away at the door they caused a freaking riot. It’s always good for businesses and the center in general when you have cops in full riot gear breaking up a horde of teens. Especially when most all were under 18 and some in possession of drugs and guns (one carrying a fully auto MAC10).

              We didn’t impose an age limit but, at the request of the police dept, we put up no loitering signs. The cops could then go through and break them up, get their names, send them home or juvenile detention if they caused problems. It did help a lot. The place looked dead and barren but the stores reported more sales.

              It will initially be a shock and awe where they stop and card everyone that looks too young. As the kids are forced to find other places to hang out, they will start to relax the policies – at least until it starts getting out of hand again.

              • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

                Papers. May I see your papers, please?

                Don’t complain when the cops show up to arrest you for pissing on… your little sun. Or whatever that is. The BP logo? And your little act of bodily fluid vandalism will ruin it for the rest of us that just want to hang out near the sun… BP logo thingy.

                I hope you’re happy, Calvin.

                • DrLumen says:

                  Quite happy. Actually I think you are protesting too much either meaning you are the type of parents these rules are aimed at – those that drop their kid off at the mall in the morning and picking them up that evening. Or, you are actually one of the teens that would be stopped and you’re trying to stage a revolution here. Let me guess, you are actually an anarchist. Either way your argument stinks of bias.

                  The rules is 16 or under not just 16 and not just those that drive and not just those that pay taxes. It’s the spoiled kids and hoodlums that think that common decency, mutual respect and laws don’t apply to them and their parents are just as arrogant and ignorant.

                  • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

                    “The rules is 16 or under…”

                    It’s 17 if I read it correctly.

                    “It’s the spoiled kids and hoodlums that think that common decency, mutual respect and laws don’t apply to them and their parents are just as arrogant and ignorant.”

                    So EVERYONE this rule affects is either spoiled or a hoodlum? Kind of a broad swipe, isn’t it? I’ve been working since I was 15 and I had my own car (which I paid to fuel, insure and maintain) at 16. I was never a hoodlum and I damn sure was never spoiled. I question this law on behalf of those who don’t deserve to be pushed aside because of a few thugs. Sadly, the majority of people seem to think group punishment is a good idea. It’s a lazy, narcissistic strategy for narrow-minded, lazy people. Pushing the problem to someone else’s doorstep doesn’t solve it — it just moves it somewhere else. Wait and see. Maybe these same thugs will start hanging out on your front lawn. ;-D

          • RecordStoreToughGuy_RidesTheWarpOfSpaceIntoTheWombOfNight says:

            What?? And here I’ve been thinking you were Chinese this whole time!

        • bluline says:

          As an adult, I’m told that all the time. I’m not allowed on a plane without being groped because a few idiots decided to ram some planes into skyscrapers. If I go to a ball game I’m not allowed to purchase a beer in the late innings because a few people use the games to get drunk and then drive home. I can think of others. Bottom line is that this isn’t the first time that a few rotten apples have spoiled things for everyone else. And it won’t be the last.

        • Maltboy wanders aimlessly through the Uncanny Valley says:

          They are doing their job. They’re imposing curfews and dress codes. Don’t like it? Shop Amazon!

          Thank you drive through.

        • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

          The teens are costing the mall money. They have to hire large numbers of Dallas Police officers to patrol the mall, sit at raised stations above the crowds, patrol the parking lots, sit in security towers in parking lots etc… They drive off lots of very wealthy customers and steal from businesses. We aren’t talking about nice teens going to spend money and hang with a few friends. We are talking about large groups of thugs who do nothing but cause trouble. I don’t think you can really understand the problem unless you frequent the mall.

          • Kuri says:

            Sadly the only ones this will really hurt are the nice ones. The thugs will just find a new area to make trouble in while the nice ones are left with yet one less activity to occupy their time.

            • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

              I don’t picture the cops stopping the teens in two or threes who are sweet and quiet and minding their own business. I really think that they will leave those kids alone. I think that it is meant more as a deterrent and enforcement tool for the groups who hang out by the food court taking up tables with no food in sight, blocking the main walkways, etc…

          • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

            “They drive off lots of very wealthy customers and steal from businesses.”

            Ahhh, they drive off very wealthy customers. Got it. Are the thieves being prosecuted or just relocated to a place where they won’t be a burden to the wealthy?

            Let’s say a soccer mom is arrested for selling drugs out of her mini van near this mall. I guess you’d be okay with being stopped every time you go there and letting a cop search your mini van, right? Ya know, for the common good.

      • GearheadGeek says:

        Northpark is a stuck-up mall in a pricey part of Dallas (University Park), I don’t think they have a big gang problem, but I haven’t been to Northpark in a decade or so. In fact I haven’t been to any mall in years except to walk into an anchor store for one item.

        • pot_roast says:

          This whole policy stems from an uptick in black youths & gang activity. (Sorry, but it’s a fact) and a shooting among them a while back. The gang bangers were there trying to claim it as their gang turf.

          I like this policy. I’m fed up with teenage gang thugs.

          • GearheadGeek says:

            The only shooting I know of at Northpark Center in Dallas was about 4 years ago, and it was a carjacking perpetrated by an adult.

            Now, in trying to find the incident you’re referring to, I found lots of references to some moron shooting HIMSELF when he dropped his own gun at Northpark Mall in Ridgeland, MS earlier this year. The Consumerist article is about Northpark in Dallas, though. If you have some information about an actual incident at Northpark in Dallas, I’d be interested to see it.

          • Kuri says:

            Well your favorite policy isn’t going to hurt them as they’ll just find a new place to terrorize. This will only hurt the teens who were doing nothing more than hanging out.

    • TheMansfieldMauler says:

      So now instead of teens hanging out in a safe, well-lit place full of adults they’ll be driven to hang out in darker, seedier parts of town without any supervision whatsoever.

      What supervision? Random adults at the mall? Mall security? Store employees?

      None of the above are obligated to babysit or take responsibility for unaccompanied minors who decide on their own to go there. They aren’t supervised just because they go to a mall.

      • OSAM says:

        THIS. Parent your kids, dont just let them roam free.

      • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

        My point was that it’s safer for kids to be in a public place rather than hanging out in an unpopulated area. As bad as mall rats might seem, there are worse evils elsewhere, trust me.

        As to the other comment below about parenting, yeah. Force kids to stay home with their parents, that always works so well. The teens won’t rebel or anything. One of the reasons I’m so close with my folks is that they DIDN’T force me to stay home all the time. They treated me like an adult. Of course, this was back before the nanny state had such a gigantic fat ass.

    • DrLumen says:

      You have to be this tall _________ to go on this ride! Not much difference.

      • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

        Hmm… little kid not tall enough to ride = teen old enough to drive, work and pay taxes.

        Nope. Not the same at all really.

        On that note, do they turn away short adults from rides like that? Is it really a height issue or do those signs consider a lack of height to also be a lack of age? What about weight? If you’re tall enough but REALLY thin you could totally fly right off the octopus.

    • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

      Have you ever been to Northpark on a Friday or Saturday night? Because I have. Teens are fighting, stealing, being loud, and taking up most of the tables in the food court while 5 of them share an order of fries. We stopped going on those nights and will often go to a different mall. There really aren’t a lot of teen stores there either. It’s mostly places like Barney’s, Nordstrom, Gucci, etc…The kids hardly go into the stores unless it is to steal. They just hangout, stand in the way and act like assholes.

      • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

        All that trouble and no complaints from shoppers? None? Seems very odd to me. If it’s as bad as you say then those people should be dealt with something like this:

        – First offense of (being too loud, loitering, fighting spitting, whatever) name is taken, warning given, GTFO for a week.

        – Second offense, $100 fine, 1 day community service shoveling shit, GTFO for a month.

        – Third offense – three strikes, you’re out. $500 fine, 1 week community service shoveling (and possibly eating) shit, GTFO permanently.

        Start a fight? Go straight to #3. Steal something? Go to jail and then straight to #3. Break something because you’re a punk-ass douche bag? Work it off shoveling shit and then go straight to #3. Barring everyone of a certain age range teaches these punks nothing. They’ll just do it somewhere else.

        If the offenders are the problem, punish the offenders. You start using blanket policies like this to solve problems then eventually someone’s knocking on your door saying, “You’re in the age range and gender of this new law we created, so pay up or we’ll have to take you away.”

        • Round-Eye å¤–äººã¯ã‚³ãƒ³ã‚¹ãƒžãƒªãƒƒã‚¹ãƒˆãŒå¥½ãã§ã™ã€‚ says:

          You seem to be forgetting that malls are around because the vendors/tenants WANT to be there. The stores make money and then pay rent. The mall’s customers are the stores. The shoppers are the stores’ customers. If the shops are complaining, that’s to whom the mall will cater. Shops that close because nobody is shopping there (for whatever reason – here it’s possibly because unruly kids are scaring away other shoppers) mean financial losses for the mall itself.

          You must have zero concept of how malls work…or you’re a minor yourself. Either way, your contributions to this thread are laughable, at best.

          • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

            Assume much? Then why didn’t the owners simply say ‘We’ve been getting complaints’?

            From all the quotes about family this and that it almost sounds like busy-body Christians trying to mind other people’s business for them.

            It’s disturbing how many people nod like a good little sheep and accept whatever lazy rules are imposed on a majority as a means of dealing with a troublesome few. Hell, let’s just keep ALL kids locked up until they’re 21. That work for you?

            (BTW, did you know the writing after ‘Round-Eye’ means ‘I enjoy sex with chickens in the morning’? Strange thing to admit in public…)

            • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

              It’s a private business. It doesn’t matter if people want to take it or not. People have a right to keep others off of their property. Since teens aren’t a protected class, they have zero rights in this situation.

              • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

                Oh, I get it now. It’s so simple!

                It’s okay to discriminate against a specific age group as long as you’re not in it.

        • Kuri says:

          Um, I’d hate to support this law here, but, at times, I think a person might nor complain, they might just leave.

        • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

          Who said they don’t get complaints from shoppers? They said they didn’t do it because of complaints from shopper, not that no shoppers have complained. I have personally complained, and I am pretty sure others have too. They just claim that wasn’t their motivation. My guess is that their motivation was complaints from both shoppers and retailers.

          • Kuri says:

            That or shoppers didn’t even file a complaint, they just left and didn’t come back.

          • Warren - aka The Piddler on the Roof says:

            “Who said they don’t get complaints from shoppers? They said they didn’t do it because of complaints from shopper, not that no shoppers have complained.”

            The article said it.

            From the article: “NorthPark management says the new teen policy has nothing to do with complaints filed by shoppers.”

            What’s the big secret? If shoppers like you complained, why not disclose that? It would go a long way in clarifying the situation. Even then, we’re still talking about persecuting an entire age group in order to punish a bushel of bad apples.

            • Jillia says:

              “NorthPark management says the new teen policy has nothing to do with complaints filed by shoppers.”

              Reading comprehension FAIL.

              They didn’t say that there weren’t any complaints, just that they didn’t base their decision off of customer complaints.

  22. moyawyvern says:

    The village-style lifestyle center on the other side of town where I used to work did that. At first it was kids under 18 and after 9pm on Fridays and Saturdays, which obviously did not help at all. Then they changed it to under 16 and 6pm. It changed the whole feel of the village on weekends, and helped boost business. This may be a bit different, as this village was more adult-oriented, and had relatively few teen friendly stores. There was plenty of roving bands of kids before. They would walk in one door and out the other, pick up stuff and break it, and laugh afterwards.

    The security guards must do a lot of ID checking. They even asked me if I was over 18, and I was well past 30 at that point.

    • Hawkins says:

      Wait… WTF is a “lifestyle center”? Does that mean “mall”?

      • moyawyvern says:

        It is one of those open air shopping centers that looks like a village. Kind of like a fancy, 21st century strip mall, but with lots more higher-end stores, restaurants, grocery stores, and even condos. They are pretty common in places where it doesn’t get too cold, like SC. I liked the one near me. You could park right in front of the store you wanted to visit, and then leave, or walk around the faux little town.

  23. KrispyKrink says:

    Weird. Our local Mall has the opposite. Teens aren’t allowed in during school hours 8am-3pm unless they’re employees that go to High Schools that do half days for those with jobs, or are with a parent. After is, it’s balls to the wall pretty much.

  24. travel_nut says:

    I was a college sophomore and living several hours away from my parents at 17. This is bull.

    I could see it for, say, 14 and under. Maybe. But not everyone under 18.

    • homehome says:

      sorry dude, but you no one to blame but your age group and their punkass parents.

    • OSAM says:

      You’re special. suck it up princess.

      • Kuri says:

        Quite funny how people like you are perfectly ok with it since it doesn’t effect you.

        • Round-Eye å¤–äººã¯ã‚³ãƒ³ã‚¹ãƒžãƒªãƒƒã‚¹ãƒˆãŒå¥½ãã§ã™ã€‚ says:

          Or the fact that this one instance is an incredibly special case. You are always free to go to a different mall.

  25. markvii says:

    If we could only work out an arrangement with the Borg. Their young are placed in a “maturation chamber”, where growth is accelerated to double the normal rate, and they are imprinted with the collective consciousness. When they emerge, they are ready to take their place in the collective.

    No more pesky teenagers….

  26. shinseiromeo says:

    My local area needs this. Everyone knows a Friday is horrible… parents dump kids off at the mall. I will not go within a mile of it on a weekend evening because of that. I accidentally did once I had to pick something up that was time sensitive and as soon as I walked in I regretted it. Hundreds of teens, screaming, running in and out of stores, fighting… it was a zoo.

  27. thomwithanh says:

    Can we make it 21+?

    • Droford says:

      make it 54 and under and just let the mall turn into the place where old people go to walk

  28. Mrs. w/1 child says:

    What about before 6 p.m.? Are the minor children on best behavior prior to 6 p.m.?

    • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

      The problem is a lot worse in the evenings. I will go there on Saturday afternoons if I have the time, but I am out of there by five when the thugs teens start coming in by the bus full.

  29. Cat says:

    This sucks. Where am I going to pick up teenage girls now?

  30. Nobby says:

    Probably minority kids behaving badly. That’s the only time I’ve seen rules like this implemented. Sadly, the rules are usually justified to prevent running paying customers off.
    Sometimes the kids cause actual real trouble and need to be dealt with. Other times they just “look” scary to others. In any case, that mall is a business and they should do what they have to do remain viable.

    But hell, I’m 40 and apparently look scary to others too, even when I’m wearing suit and tie, walking alone in a parking lot toward my Japanese car. I know this because of the way people lock their doors, clinch their “defensive jabbing key” in their fists in case I attack, tightly grip their purses or stop, let me pass simply so I won’t be behind them as they walk, get off the elevator on the wrong floor if there’s just me and them, and absolutely cringe when I darken the doors of their stores. I’m sure if there was a way to include me in the “after 6pm rule”, many would support it as it would just make things simpler.

    My point? I hate being feared because of the anti-social acts of others. I’m really tired of being painted with the same brush. I could see how a positive person could become negative from always being viewed negatively.

  31. Outrun1986 says:

    So a 16-17 year old can have a job but now they can’t go to the mall to spend their money, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The retailers probably hate this, but if the problem is so bad that the kids are blocking the retailers and shoppers don’t want to go to the mall then this needs to be the policy. But once kids turn 18 this will be moot, as large groups of 18-20 will apparently be allowed. They are still too young to get into the bars here, so they will go to the mall. 18-20 year olds are also banned from being in the bar district now here, except on thursday night which is youth night. That does not apply to bars outside of a certain district here.

    Most malls already have policies of this nature, most of the small malls closed here since they became nothing but skate parks for kids who had heeley’s and no real stores were actually in these malls and customers never actually shopped at the flea-market like stores that were in these malls.

    The malls here just have policies on signs that say large groups of youth may be asked to leave or be broken up. Since the policy is written it can be enforced with discretion. Most also have policies that children aren’t allowed to be there during school hours.

    All malls should have a policy where kids under say, 13 aren’t allowed to be alone, unsupervised in them at any time, period. These places are becoming a drop off point and free child care for children as young as 8 years old. I see plenty of 8 and slightly older children walking around malls alone and unsupervised. Like many others I would never dump a child that young off in the mall but I know plenty that do it here and think nothing of it.

  32. Nobby says:

    I bet that boy in the photo is thinking “How can I look tough in my camo shirt with you holding my hand like this?”.

  33. May contain snark says:

    I go to this mall about once a month and I can tell you that there are a lot of teens that hang out here. They also shop, eat food, spend money, etc. I’ve personally never seen a group of teens misbehaving or causing a disturbence. I don’t understand why Northpark would want to alienate one of their largest demographics.

  34. FashionablyDoomed says:

    If this happened at our only local mall when I was a teen, it would have had almost zero effect on us; we skipped school and hung out in the food court all day.

  35. Martha Gail says:

    So, if a teen who worked there were to go shopping on, say, their lunch break, that would be against the rules?

    What do you do if you’re a teen who has been dropped off to see a movie and afterwards you’re waiting for your parents to come get you? Where do you wait?

    As much as I cannot stand kids and teens, this is dumb and won’t fix any problems. I live right by that mall, too.

    • Outrun1986 says:

      Teens also can have jobs elsewhere besides this mall, and they might want to go to the mall to spend their money afterwards. If the policy was for ages 15 and under then I can understand but this is a poorly thought out policy, they are basically saying if you work and aren’t 18 then your money is not good enough for us. If I was 16-18 and working a part time job this mall would not be where I would choose to spend my money just based on their policy.

      Most malls around here have at least 80% of their stores geared towards the 16-22 demographic, so this isn’t a population I would want to restrict if I was a mall owner. If there was an unruly group of teens just there to cause trouble then the mall always has the right to refuse service especially if they aren’t spending money in the mall. Moreover the mall can set a policy where youth groups can be asked to leave on a case to case basis, as do all the malls here.

      As you said where will they wait after the movie as well, kicking them to the parking lot to wait will not solve anything, and would likely lead to more violence and also would be very dangerous.

  36. gqcarrick says:

    A few of the malls around me have policies like this. Parents would dump their kids off at the mall so they could walk around and hangout all day with their friends and no one watched them.

  37. Gehasst says:

    Already a fact at St. Clair Mall in Fairview Hieghts, IL (20 min from Downtown St. Louis, MO) unless they changed it

  38. Woden says:

    Two of the malls in my area have similar policies, and have had them for years. One tells all kids under 18 to leave by 6pm on all but Fridays and Saturdays (I believe its 8pm on those days), and the other it is 8pm every day except for Friday and Saturday when it is 9pm.

    It doesn’t hurt their business all that much because lets face it most kids don’t have a lot of money to spend unless they’re with their parents to begin with. I know when I worked at the second mall I mentioned maybe 1 out of 40 or 50 customers was a kid paying with his/her own money without a parent present, but at the same time most of the mess in a few areas of the store was caused by roving packs of those same kids hanging out in our store. Everyone at our store was more than happy to tell them all to get the hell out when the curfew time hit.

  39. maryland157 says:

    I work at a retailer in a mail and I can say that most malls have awful management. They make up stupid regulations that we have to follow or else we get fined. Like how we stock things, we can’t have a soda machine tower that has a soda company logo on it, we can’t have tip jars, and signs have to be approved by them just to name a few. The mall I work at around 10 years ago had an issue with security, the area around the mall had a huge crime rate. I believe that the county police got on mall management about the awful security and now the mall has really awesome security. They now have a full staff of uniformed security, undercover security, even K9 security. Since then the crime rate has dropped to normal rates for the area. This policy that the mall is setting isn’t going to be good for business, kids are going to stop coming to the mall altogether.

  40. Geekybiker says:

    There are several malls I don’t go to in my area anymore due to hordes of loitering teenagers. They’re obnoxious, and seem to think it is a fun game to intimidate other shoppers.

  41. Tacojelly says:

    Good. You’re teaching teens that retail is for fools and the “mall” is a fading American tradition.

    Have fun convincing these kids to come spend money once they reach 18.

  42. Incident8 says:

    Note the exceptions: Teens who work in the mall being among them. So its OK for the teen to serve people in the mall after 6:00pm but not OK for them to shop there after 6:00PM. Funny how laws like this always affect those who cannot vote.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Funny, it doesn’t say that these rights are endowed at the age of 18.

    • Incident8 says:

      Sorry, I meant rules not laws.

    • Awesome McAwesomeness says:

      Did you ever take a government class? It’s a privately owned mall. No one has a right to be on someone’s private property. The right is given to you by the business owner. Teens are no longer wanted at this mall at night and the business has the right to make that rule. Trust me, if none of teens who hang out there on weekend night ever shopped at that mall again, it would still do fine. It might actually do better. I know it will do better by me b/c I love to shop but avoid that place like the plague on weekend nights.

  43. dush says:

    Why not just blare Mozart through the PA?

  44. HogwartsProfessor says:

    We used to loiter, but we weren’t thuggish. It’s a shame that people don’t know how to behave themselves.

    The mall I hung out at in college had an arcade, a movie theater and a deli. Plenty for kids to do and keep busy. (It was kind of small.) It’s still there, as is the theater and the deli–I assume the video arcade went the way of the dinosaur. My college buds and I have talked about a reunion. Most of our favorite places are still there. I am dreaming of a sub and cheesecake at the deli right now.

  45. conscious says:

    I’m pretty sure the leading photo is of a little person, not a child/teen.

  46. Kuri says:

    Well, I guess those kids will be vandalizing the town instead then.

    I guess the best solution to bored teenagers causing trouble is to make sure they have even less to do….

  47. Awesome McAwesomeness says:

    Thank goodness. The obnoxiousness at this mall by teens has gotten out of hand. We avoid it on weekend nights because of it. We often go to other malls on Friday or Saturday nights (we prefer Northpark) rather than have to endure being there. I don’t really understand why parents unleash their wild kids to go hang out at the mall. No one wants them there. They hang out and spend very little money and just annoy everyone. They also get arrested for shoplifting a lot (I’ve seen several teen arrests.) This is a really nice mall too. I am sure they are trying to protect their image.

  48. planetoid says:

    They did this 10 years ago at the Walden Galleria Mall outside Buffalo, NY, Thursday-Sunday only. I loved the policy, kept the place cleaner, quieter and easier to shop.

  49. scoopjones says:

    Our local mall is pretty much all teen crap for sale anyway, so there’s no way they could do this. A few years ago, they had bookstores and nice restaurants, but that’s all gone now in favor of skateboarder garbage and cheap costume jewelry. Not worth going.

  50. quail says:

    Many malls in the North East do this. Macy’s in Manhattan won’t let anyone under 17 into the store without a parent at any time. For the mall owners to get to this point there must have been multiple problems.

    Sorry, but I don’t see a problem. It’s not like a kid can’t do his shopping before 7 pm during a weekend.

  51. webweazel says:

    Teens just get kicked out of one place after another. Where the hell do they expect them to go?

    I guess they do what we did–head to the train trestle to smoke dope and drink beer and swing out on the tire swing over the ocean of broken glass, or maybe hang out under the high-tension power lines further down the tracks. The hum was soooo cool. Oh, about the kid who got stoned out and climbed them? Well, he actually lived and had permanent burn scars all over his body for the rest of his life. No biggie.

    Yeah, that’s a better choice.

    • Kuri says:

      That’s pretty much my take on it. The law abiding ones have something taken away while the thugs move to somewhere seedy.

  52. bcsus83 says:

    I think it should be like this ALL the time. I’ve seen far more wild teenagers and kids in malls than I have well-behaved one, and it’s the same at every mall across the country that I have been to.

  53. ganon446 says:

    Most people forget these people are bloggers from Chicago. lol I recommend anyone who thinks parents should not be in tow please go to Ford City Mall in Chicago and show your tolerance ^_^

  54. kgb says:

    They do this at the malls around me (in MO). I like it because it gives me an out when my 13 year old wants to hang out at the mall with friends but doesn’t want me there. I don’t want her there alone, so this rule keeps us from having to argue about it.

    Also, you can actually walk through the mall on weekends without having to push through mobs of teenagers who are being obnoxious.

  55. csmith208 says:

    As a 17 year old, I think they should just kick out all the kids who behave like little sociopaths. I know, I know, another person posting an “I am the EXCEPTION!” comment…

    I’m a well behaved kid, and I do not get a kick out of making a scene in the local mall. (Who even goes to a mall to hang out anymore? That seems like something that you only see in movies.) When I go to the mall, I’m there to buy stuff and then get out! Maybe stop by the food court for a pretzel, but that’s pretty much it. My boyfriend is 18, so we often run into problems when out at night- sometime we’ll be somewhere where I could potentially be kicked out, yet he can be there without a problem. Nothing magical happens at 18 as far as maturity goes. The kid who was rude enough to make a scene and scare shoppers at 17 will be just as much of a jerk when his birthday comes around. This policy is an attempt to not handle the real problem! The same man power used to check IDs could be used to kick those losers out- regardless of age! Instead they are alienating a customer group- and you know what? Those kids will find a new mall to go to- and will probably continue going to that mall long after their 18th birthday. Everybody has a mall that they prefer- we’re creatures of habit. This policy won’t be good for them in the long term.


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text:
Apparently I will soon be too old

My hair is long since “beginning to grey”, which is becoming a cause for concern. My wife has always said that if my research funding dried up I could always jump to some other job programming. But the article linked above suggests otherwise. Even though I got carded yet again at Trader Joe’s last week, Brooke’s worst case scenario probably is going to be worse than she expects. As I march towards mid-forties and beyond, I’m also in a march towards being unemployable.

While I am not expecting to lose funding for my job in the immediate future, I’ve decided to start making plans for a career path that doesn’t include being a transportation researcher forever. This will hopefully mean that my fallback plan in case of immediate layoffs will get better than some nebulous “something in web tech or programming”. Continue reading

CouchDB changes feed

Quick post that the “Asynchronous architectures with the CouchDB _changes feed” webcast hosted by O’Reilly Media was good. Unfortunately, what I really want to do is not yet possible out of the box. I want to use the GeoCouch indexer to filter the changes feed. So for example (and liberally inventing the ‘&&’ operator that mimics the same operator from PostGIS)

function(doc, req)
if(doc.geometry && req.query.bbox) {
return true;
return false;

Then a map application could update, say, traffic conditions for the current viewport, rather than sifting through possibly millions of traffic events every few minutes just to find the handful in my area.

The hooks are there, and it might be possible to do a workaround, but I’m not seeing it yet.

I also thought I wanted reduce in the filter, but thinking about it I’ve changed my mind. Taking the Focus app as an example, suppose I want to see who has been active recently, not the actual posted tasks. A reduce in the filter could bundle up just the people making changes, while skipping the actual changes. But I think I understand enough of the underlying architecture of CouchDB to know that there probably isn’t much advantage to computing map/reduce b-trees for changes…by definition these things are changing. If such a thing were really important, one could use the changes feed to populate another db with appropriate documents (and the change timestamp and ordering), which in turn would have whatever map/reduce stuff I need to run.

Thinking about documenting everything

A new project we are trying to get going here at the newly re-christened California Traffic Management Labs is an information portal that documents everything related to transportation modeling. While this is really great work for us academics, it presents some interesting problems. On the one hand, it is simple. All we have to do is write down everything we collectively know about all the relevant papers, research, programs, and practice, and then put hyperlinks on everything, and we’re done.

I did this sort of thing once before. A while ago I developed a system I called Academic. Academic was a bunch of perl and mysql running on top of slashcode…yes the same code running slashdot, circa 2003. It died because a hard drive crashed, slashcode is a nightmare, my database schema was too inflexible, and I found a leech was logging into the system and poaching my work (I naively expected people would contribute as much as they took away, but there is no GPL for research synthesis). In short, I never once considered actually unzipping that code, but having done a project once you have a feel for how to do it better the second time around.

So the details of how to load up academic references and how to physically links files and topics and tags is something I know how to do. (I actually have a new version running on top of CouchDB). The central problem is not the web site design or the database backend, but how to organize knowledge. We’re making a library of sorts, but by removing the physical limits of bookshelves and rooms, we can conceivable have everything just a click away from everything else. But too many things to click on a page is about as enlightening as showing a blank page. We need the system to enforce some discipline on the information content so that relationships actually mean something.

I am taking the approach of deferring as many choices as possible, and striving to allow those who populate the site (me, my colleagues, some hand-picked grad students, anybody who grabs the code once I push it out to github, …) to make the important choices about what relates to what. But I want to avoid the problem that seems to crop up in “everybody can edit” wikis of lots of similarly named and yet different pages. To that end, I’ve decided to organize the information around the idea of topics. A topic is more than a simple definition (although every topic has a simple definition). A topic is closer to a white paper or a survey paper. When one calls up the “Transportation Modeling” topic, the site should display a reasonably complete paper describing what transportation modeling is, including it history, current trends in the practice, active areas of research, and so on.

But the opportunity for disaster is right below the surface. In my current system, I am creating topics and forming generic links between topics. This is nothing nearly as sophisticated as a topic map, but maybe it needs to be. My idea is to use the relationships between topics to pull up material that might be related to the topic in question. The problem is that if a topic gets too broad, then the list of relevant resources will become unusable. For example, because the site is intended to document transportation modeling issues, the topic called “Transportation Modeling” should relate to pretty much everything else in the site. The information content of such a page is about equal to white noise.

The simple solution is to just make subtopics of big topics. We might have a section on “pricing models”, and another on “microsimulation models”, and so on. But the danger is that at some point down the road somebody is going to create a topic called “microsimulation of road pricing”, and link that topic to “microsimulation” and to “pricing”, and boom, the new topic is white noise, and even pricing and microsimulation are now less useful because they will start pulling in resources from the new hybrid topic(s).

We need to be clever about that eventual use case, so that new topics that relate to many other topics might start out with useless jumble of possibly related content, but the jumble can be quickly sorted into relevant and irrelevant material. In fact, most of my thinking about this project revolves around making this case easy to handle.

“Omnidirectional Mic” is Apple speak for mono mic in

Drove myself nutty trying to get stereo microphone input under slackware on my macbook pro (MBP 5,5).

I made a screencast under OSX using the built in version of quicktime. I recorded screencapture in one process, my voice and face (from the iSight cam) in another process, and merged them together in the movie editor. The lame result is on youtube complete with utter failure at the end. Makes me laugh when I see it, and it is a word of caution to use a script, not go off the top of your head.

Anyway, that’s not the point of this post. My point is getting the macbook pro internal mic to work under Linux. I ran across several tips and howtos on using ffmpeg to record the screen and capture the iSight input, so I wanted to do that rather than boot into OSX. But for some reason, no matter what I did the recorded sound was in mono and only on the left channel. Immediately I unfairly suspected that my Linux software was to blame, but found nothing on the interwebs about such an issue. I recompiled the kernel, downloaded and installed PulseAudio and all its dependencies, and so on, with absolutely no effect. The only thing I could do was make the input sound worse by using arecord directly.

Turns out, there is no such thing as stereo input on the MBP 5,5 — at least, none that I can find. Under OSX, it appears that “stereo” is actually mono piped to two channels. To test this I made a little audio recording using QuickTime and snapped my fingers right and left. No difference in my headset during playback, just a snap right in the middle of my brain. And if you look up the specs on the Apple website, you’ll see “Omnidirectional microphone”

So the only problem with Linux is trying to mix the left channel to both channels.

California Traffic Management Labs

We are searching for a new name for our physical and intellectual resources here at UCI. We have a real-world laboratory in that we have streets and highways that are instrumented. We used to call ourselves “ATMS Testbed”, and we still call ourselves Testbed, but we’re trying to push the notion that we aren’t ATMS. ATMS stands for Advanced Transportation Mangement System, but it has been usurped by its association with the software that is used to run the modern traffic control centers. So ATMS sounds like we just work on the ATMS software, but we actually do almost nothing with the ATMS software!

So we kicked around some names on email, and had a meeting this morning to discuss the name, and we very quickly settled on California Traffic Management Labs, in less than an hour! Magically,, .com, and .net are all available, so we got them.  We decide to use as the primary site, because hey, “net” is like network, which is what we do.

So, once we get our website up and running at the end of the summer, if you want to do traffic management research and deployment, come to and see what we have to offer.

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isPartOf: CC-MAIN-2016-36
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text:
Make WordPress Core

Opened 8 years ago

Closed 8 years ago

Last modified 8 years ago

#7157 closed enhancement (fixed)

Disable APP and XMLRPC publishing by default

Reported by: westi Owned by: westi
Milestone: 2.6 Priority: high
Severity: normal Version:
Component: Security Keywords: has-patch
Focuses: Cc:

In order to protect the majority of blogs which don't use these protocols against any possible security vulnerabilities we should disable them by default.

This is similar to the idea that registration is disabled by default.

Attachments (10)

disable_remote_publishing_by_default.diff (5.8 KB) - added by westi 8 years ago.
First pass patch. Still needs to actually stop APP working.
xmlrpc_disabled.diff (6.1 KB) - added by ryan 8 years ago.
xmlrpc.php.diff (4.1 KB) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-app.php.diff (699 bytes) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-admin--includes--schema.php.diff (1.5 KB) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-admin--includes--upgrade.php.diff (798 bytes) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-admin--install.php.diff (1.3 KB) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-app.php.2.diff (619 bytes) - added by josephscott 8 years ago.
wp-app.php.3.diff (647 bytes) - added by AlanJCastonguay 8 years ago.
not_allowed() requires an array
wp-app.php.4.diff (944 bytes) - added by AlanJCastonguay 8 years ago.
Should use 403 Forbidden instead.

Download all attachments as: .zip

Change History (38)

8 years ago

First pass patch. Still needs to actually stop APP working.

#1 @westi
8 years ago

  • Cc josephscott added

Patch adds the options, UI and lockdown for xmlrpc but needs the lockdown for APP implementing.

#2 @ryan
8 years ago

(In [8136]) Disable remote publishing by default. Add options to turn them back on. Props josephscott. see #7157

#3 @ryan
8 years ago

Leaving open for APP lockdown.

#4 @redsweater
8 years ago

What a bummer. Terrible news for desktop clients. I hope the security enhancing tradeoff is very high because this will be a support burden on developers who are supporting users of desktop clients.

It's also worth noting that this will add friction to the process of using a remote client with WordPress, and therefore make other systems such as Blogger potentially more attractive to such users.

#5 @westi
8 years ago

We should of course consider making these options part of the 5 minute install like the privacy ones are.

Something like Enable Remote Client access - which would enable both types by default?

#6 @redsweater
8 years ago

Adding the option to enable in the 5 minute install would help a lot.

#7 @westi
8 years ago

(In [8139]) Allow enabling of remote publishing at install time. See #7157.

#8 @UseShots
8 years ago

Will there be a way to find out whether the remote publishing is disabled or not?
I.e. some meaningful error message when you call the disabled XML-RPC methods or a special method that answers "disabled/enabled".

As a weblog client developer I would like to let the users know that why the "publishing" failed and tell them what they should do to fix the issue. So I need to distinguish this error from all other types of errors.

P.S. BTW adding the option to the "5 minute install" won't help much. People install blogs, then, after some time, they discover remote weblog clients. By that time they have already forgotten about those options they saw during the install.

#9 @redsweater
8 years ago

Great points UseShots. I think you're right about the "deciding later" to use a remote client. All in all I think this change will be disappointing for remote editors, and their users, but I like your idea about at least providing a meaningful way of detecting this condition.

One of the major nuisances with Movable Type is that users are required to know about and then use a separate "web services" password. It would help a lot in their case if they just arranged for the authentication failure to explain what might be going wrong.

Is it at all worth considering a "secured mode" xmlrpc.php and app.php, that just returns an error stating that the user has not enabled access?

#10 follow-up: @matt
8 years ago

"Enable remote publishing using the WordPress, Movable Type, MetaWeblog, Blogger and Atom publishing protocols for my blog."

If I'm a new blogger, or a first-time WordPress user, how does that make any sense? It's confusing enough that I bet people will check it simple because they have no idea what it does, and it can't cause any harm if it's a checkbox in installation, right?

I don't think this needs to be an option in setup.

#11 @Otto42
8 years ago

Something's wrong with this option. I was unable to enable it on the Options->Writing screen and have the change actually stick. I had to go into the options table and manually set the option to "1" to make it work.

#12 @ryan
8 years ago

(In [8180]) Save enable_app and enable_xmlrpc settings. see #7157

8 years ago

#13 @ryan
8 years ago

Here's an alternate approach that returns a descriptive error rather than the generic method not found error. The patch isn't complete.

#14 @redsweater
8 years ago

I am still not a fan of this change, and I've decided to write some public debate to at least hopefully get some thoughts moving about the possibility of taking another approach:

#15 in reply to: ↑ 10 @lloydbudd
8 years ago

Replying to matt:

I don't think this needs to be an option in setup.

I agree with Matt. This is a distracting option for setup and also currently written in Geek. A descriptive error message resolves all scenarios I can think of.

#16 @redsweater
8 years ago

Assuming you decide to go ahead with this , I agree a descriptive error message will be very helpful.

#17 @ryan
8 years ago

I can proceed with my patch and remove the install options while discussions continue.

#18 @josephscott
8 years ago

New patches:

  • Provide helpful error message when XML-RPC is not enabled. Now done as part of the authentication check.
  • Provide helpful error message when AtomPub is not enabled.
  • Enable XML-RPC and AtomPub when doing upgrades.
  • Remove check box for enabling XML-RPC & AtomPub during install.

The only XML-RPC functions that don't attempt to authenticate users are:

  • demo.sayHello
  • demo.addTwoNumbers
  • mt.supportedMethods (which seems pretty useless in light of system.listMethods)
  • mt.supportedTextFilters
  • mt.getTrackbackPings
  • pingback.ping
  • pingback.extensions.getPingbacks

Turned XML-RPC and AtomPub back on for upgrades to reduce the amount of surprised existing users will have.

#19 @ryan
8 years ago

(In [8202]) More informative error message when remote publishing is disabled. Don't disable if upgrading. Props josephscott. see #7157

#20 @DD32
8 years ago

(In [8202])

The atomPub errror message is not translated.

#21 @josephscott
8 years ago

Pass the AtomPub error message through the translation.

#22 @markjaquith
8 years ago

(In [8234]) Pass AtomPub disabled messaged through translation. props josephscott. see #7157

#23 @AlanJCastonguay
8 years ago

$allow passed to not_allowed() is expected to be an array, and joined into a comma-separated list of allowed values. If we're going to use not_allowed() to output this warning in the Allow: header, the content should be a single-element array rather than a string.

However, it may be better to use HTTP Status 403 instead, since Status 405 "MUST include an Allow header containing a list of valid methods for the requested resource", not an arbitrary user-oriented string. With Status 403, WordPress "SHOULD describe the reason for the refusal in the entity" body, not through the Accept: header.

8 years ago

not_allowed() requires an array

8 years ago

Should use 403 Forbidden instead.

#24 @ryan
8 years ago

(In [8267]) Send 403 if publishing is disabled. Props AlanJCastonguay. see #7157

#25 @jacobsantos
8 years ago

is this fixed?

#26 @Otto42
8 years ago

  • Milestone 2.9 deleted
  • Resolution set to fixed
  • Status changed from new to closed
  • Version 2.6 deleted

Yeah, this made it into 2.6. Closing.

#27 @jacobsantos
8 years ago

Should be moved to 2.6 milestone, but it no longer exists.

#28 @DD32
8 years ago

  • Milestone set to 2.6
Note: See TracTickets for help on using tickets.


text:
National Burger Month Continues With A Tour Of DFW Area Del Frisco Grilles

fw burgerby Steven Doyle

May is National Burger Month and Del Frisco’s Grille celebrates with a burger of the month at each of their restaurants in the DFW area. All three locations in Uptown Dallas, Southlake Town Square and Fort Worth’s Sundance Square are participating with a unique burger specially created by their respective chefs.

First stop on the Del Frisco burger tour is the “Bass Fort Worth Chili Burger” which is featured at Del Frisco’s Grille Fort Worth in Sundance Square. This burger has a base of chili, bacon, beef, onions, and cheese. This burger is dedicated to the memory of Executive Chef Russ Huey and incorporates bread from Empire Bakery. Executive Chef Carter Reyenga said, “It is two American classics in one. Chili and a burger. Two prime beef patties topped with house ground prime chili that is slow braised with Bass beer. It is topped with shredded cheddar, diced onions and sloppy sauce. All fitting between a local brioche bun.”

Southlake is offering the “Lone Star Prime Cheeseburger”. Thinking outside the typical burger, patty they add on slices of brisket that has been slow cooked to bring out its individual flavor. Add on the jalapenos and cheese to make this savory burger one that will leave you grinning. Executive Chef Aaron Henschen said, “This burger is made from local ingredients, has a sweet tangy BBQ sauce, and the candied jalapenos are sweet with a little heat that hits the backside of your throat.” Ingredients featured are Two Prime Patties, Shredded BBQ Brisket, Jalapeno Jack Cheese, local Candied Jalapenos and Village Baking Company Brioche Bun.

For your final burger experience stop by the Dallas location which is featuring the “Uptowner.” A burger is satisfying on its own but Del Frisco’s Grille is making it even better by adding truffle oil, mushrooms, Brazos brie from Waco, Texas, and arugula. Executive Chef Antonio Zamora said, “We take two prime beef patties, herb roasted wild shiitake, portabella, oyster, and crimini mushrooms, and top it with local creamy Brazos Brie cheese, crunchy, peppery arugula tossed in truffle vinaigrette and finishing it with a sweet basil aioli on an Empire bakery brioche bun.”

Each burger comes with a choice of frites seasoned with sea salt.

1 Comment

Filed under Steven Doyle

One response to “National Burger Month Continues With A Tour Of DFW Area Del Frisco Grilles

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text:
A message from Steven L. Crouch, Dean

Welcome to the College of Science and Engineering.

Our college has a tradition of excellence that spans more than 80 years. We have built an international reputation for top-notch science and engineering programs. Our unique combination of physical sciences, engineering, mathematics, and computer science, all within one college, provides students and faculty with research and education opportunities across many fields of study.

Throughout the years, our mission has remained steadfast and includes two major areas:

  • We have a pressing obligation to educate more scientists and engineers to lead in tomorrow’s economy.
  • There is an urgent need to expand research and innovation to address global challenges in energy, the environment, health care, and our nation’s infrastructure, as well as build new industries and create new jobs.

We continue to attract the best and brightest students.

  • Incoming students to the College of Science and Engineering have among the highest ACT and SAT scores at the University of Minnesota.
  • Demand for our programs continues to grow with record numbers of employers attending our CSE Career FAirs.

When these students graduate, they will join more than 65,000 alumni from the College of Science and Engineering who have greatly impacted our state and global economies.

  • College of Science and Engineering alumni have founded more than 4,000 active companies worldwide that employ more than 550,000 people and generate more than $90 billion in annual revenue.
  • In Minnesota, our alumni have founded 2,600 active companies that employ more than 175,000 people and generate approximately $46 billion in annual revenue.

Our college’s research enterprise also continues to grow.

  • College of Science and Engineering faculty researchers bring in more than $138 million in research dollars to the University each year.
  • Over the past five years, research by our college’s faculty has generated 637 invention disclosures, 128 patents and 18 start-up companies.

Despite all of these successes, we need to continue improving. I am confident that our dynamic past will be preserved in our future. I hope you will join us on the journey.


text:
6 thoughts on “Another Steven on Emancipation

  1. Bummer November 28, 2012 / 1:58 pm

    Bummer enjoyed Steven’s comments regarding the Sioux and the need to address that reconciliation also. That is a subject that is close at heart, both spiritually and physically.

    Thanks for sharing,

    • rcocean November 28, 2012 / 6:40 pm

      Yes, “Lo the Poor Indian” – I feel sorry for ’em too. It was very brave for Prof Hahn to say so, and a point I’ve never heard mentioned before – except for Hollywood movies, TV, college courses, and US history books.

      But I enjoyed his talk – on the whole – but the Professor has several annoying mannerisms that need correction when speaking to a general audience. No doubt his captive audience of students simply accept the hectoring voice and hand waving.

      • rcocean November 28, 2012 / 6:42 pm

        I believe Grant, while President, discussed how badly the Indians had been treated and suggested ways to improve things.

  2. Mark November 29, 2012 / 12:20 am

    I enjoyed it as a provocative historical viewpoint, but I think his argument unpersuasive. Of course the Indians were treated shamefully and regretfully, but that doesn’t make his account true. His account doesn’t fit the historical data as good as other theories based on the same data. I don’t think we changed into an “imperial nation state”. I think we changed into a modern bureaucratic-regulatory welfare state. And I don’t think it was through some occult process. I think William J. Novak had it right in “The Legal Origins of the American State”.

    “It was the product of a continuous and energetic process of state-building from 1776 through the Second World War. The establishment of basic governing institutions, the acquisition and distribution of new territory, the promotion of national and international commerce, the development of a powerful national defense, the achievement of a regularized yet flexible legal system, and the growth of aggressive policies of police, regulation, administration, and redistribution.”

    Now whether a modern bureaucratic-regulatory welfare state is a good thing or not doesn’t have anything to do with how we arrived there. Indeed, I have no idea if Novak approves or disapproves. I don’t happen to think it a good thing, but that should have nothing to do with my judgement on the accuracy of any such accounts. Most of the familiar simplistic disapproving causal narratives such as Hahn’s give me the strong impression that they’re really saying that we’re dealing with a tower of Babel phenomenon where if the nation wasn’t scattered or somehow kept into small parts that it was doomed to corruption. If that is so there are a million complex narratives that all end the same because they are all the same simple one at the core.

    At the end of the day Hahn gave a grand sweeping narrative that seems flawed by explaining too much by too little. Of course reservations and segregation are linked. They were both cruel and unjust. That links Jim Crow and a lot of things doesn’t it? As symptoms, not causes. Basic things like this entirely ruin the plausibility of Hahn’s narrative for me. Or am I being too harsh? I don’t know the guy, but it seems like he was trying to dazzle us with detail that didn’t support the narrative unless you agreed with the thesis already.

    • rcocean November 29, 2012 / 12:06 pm

      Linking “reservations” and “Segregation” are simply examples of what happens when you view everything from a “Race/Gender” standpoint. Its an example of a “Cultural Marxist” viewpoint. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

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text:
Forums > MaxMSP

MaxMspJitter_disapearing when minimized??

May 23 2006 | 4:09 pm

Hello, I am currently working on a quite heavy Jitter/Msp videosampler applictation using a number of objects to play up to nine video streams at any time on one screen.

However when I minimize the patch, and sometimes also when I use the scroll wheel on my mouse max (and the patch) usually disapears.
Sometimes max/msp will not open before I have rebooted the machine. This behaviour is the same on two similar computers. The patch itself does generally not crash.(allthough does not always do what i want it to:-))

I am on windoze, Amd64 models with fast disks and 1024 memory and good videocard(can check the specs if its relevant)

Any tips as to what could possibly be going on would be appreciated!
Its for an installation so naturally I would want good stability.

Thank you.

May 23 2006 | 5:44 pm

I encounter the same kind of problem since a couple of monthes ; for me,
it’s not linked to a patch, it hapens randomly, when scrolling a patcher
with the mouse wheel : max quit without any error message, no crash log.
Most of the time, I have to reboot windoz, because max stays in the task
manager, but I can’t force it to quit.
very boring !

windows XP pro SP2, P4 3Ghz, Nvidia FX5900 (latest drivers)
maxmsp 4.5.7 jitter 1.5.2

the only solution I have found until now : stop scrolling with mouse wheel!

sorry, it surely doesn’t help, but I’m glad to know I’m not the only one
with this problem!

MAthieu Chamagne

May 25 2006 | 7:50 am

Yeah, I stopped scrolling with the mousewheel (under XP)in MAX about a year ago because I got sick and tired of teh random crashes it causes ;/

May 25 2006 | 10:18 am

I have not encountered this problem before myself, but then this is my first major Jitter patch. A well, no minimizing and scrolling it is then.

Viewing 4 posts - 1 through 4 (of 4 total)

Forums > MaxMSP


text:
Forums > Jitter

Using blob tracking to draw shapes

Aug 21 2010 | 6:47 am

I should probably preface this by saying I’m stuck in the world of ‘trial and error’ at the moment – I’m not totally sure if I’m on the right track, so any suggestions at all are gratefully appreciated…

I’m trying to find a way to use cv.jit.blobs to create shapes – probably with OpenGL, which I’ve had some success with. The catch is that I don’t want to use a perfectly round or square (like cv.jit.bounds) shape – I’d prefer that it fitted the area considered a blob a little closer.

I’ve been playing with vade’s v001.posterize filter, to try and ‘crush’ the number of colour values into something similar, but because I need to make this a binary image for cv.jit anyway, it isn’t making a great deal of difference. The closest I’ve got is using cv.jit.blobs.color, but I’m hoping to create a more abstract shape with OpenGL than the coloured areas in a jitter matrix.

Hopefully this all makes some sense, but if not, here is the patch I’ve been testing some different cv.jit.blobs styles on…

-- Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. --

Aug 22 2010 | 12:42 pm

Just giving this a bit of a nudge by way of another patch – my last post was probably too general anyway.

Basically, what I'm trying to work out is how to take a video feed, crush the colours so I'm left with only a few distinct shades of grey (so that identifying different brightnesses is easier) and loosely tracing those shapes with OpenGL.

Attached is a photoshopped image of the 'crushed colour' effect I'm expecting would make shape tracking easier. The left and right side show before and after, respectively.

What I'm really stuck on now is how to separate each shade, so that I can work with them individually.

The attached image should work with this patch…

-- Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. --

  1. 20100822_cvTracking.jpg

Aug 23 2010 | 5:01 pm

i believe jit.charmap is your friend in producing the "crushed colors" effect.

Aug 24 2010 | 4:40 am

Thanks very (very, very) much for the nudge in the right direction, robtherich. jit.charmap did indeed do the trick…

-- Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. --

…now I just need to get those cv.jit.features values to draw some shapes for me!

Aug 24 2010 | 3:39 pm

your question is still quite broad, if you get no further response i suggest you simplify/specify your question, perhaps breaking it into parts and reposting to forum.

Aug 25 2010 | 4:30 am

You’re right robtherich – sorry about that. So jit.charmap took care of finding the edges I was after, which I then used with cv.jit.features to find coordinates. What I’m trying to figure out is how to use these coordinates to draw a shape with OpenGL.

I realise that the points I’m getting from cv.jit.features aren’t ordered to give me a sequential perimeter of the shape, but I don’t seem to be getting any output at all in

I’ve checked over my OpenGL syntax many times, but I’m still not sure where the output is falling down…

-- Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. --

Aug 25 2010 | 5:21 am

I’ve actually just gotten to the bottom of this: wasn’t happy with the format of the message being passed to it – sending it through a message first sort it out.

Jun 11 2011 | 1:03 am

Kodamapixel, or anyone else that understands what his last post meant, would you mind explaining? In what way did you reformat the message such that could handle it?

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

Forums > Jitter


text:
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They are all decent people who work hard, and are competent at what they do, which is what I call “tactical training.” This is where they give you a list of things to do and expect you to do them on your own.

“I take your business to a higher level by creating and helping you deploy marketing performance strategies and systems  that attract and engage pre-qualified buyers and convert them into long-term, high-paying customers. No other consultant can match this level of one-to-one, ‘done-with-you’ assistance.” Nick Nichols

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