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'Traction Pie'
Dumbness Personified

By: James R. Davis

According to the MSF our tires provide only so much traction and that if you exceed that amount your tire breaks loose (you skid or slide). That's true.

They also presented to all students a 'visualization' of this in the form of a 'Traction Pie'. Below is a chart that is close to what that visualization looks like. Note that it is NOT *THEIR* chart as I am mindful that the MSF likes to sue people for copyright infringement and they seem to think that anything they say in their curriculum is 'intellectual property' and has great worth - not true.

The idea, according to the MSF, is that the circle represents the amount of traction a tire provides. They go on to suggest that there are FOUR 'pieces' of that circle (pie), the sum of which is the total pie: Acceleration force, Braking force, Cornering force, and Reserve (unused). The Assertion by the MSF is that if any 'piece' of that pie is Reserve, then you are not skidding/sliding. Fair enough, but that is not the same as saying you are not in trouble.

Well, if you were a fourth grader, I suppose, you might buy that and that is the fundamental problem with the analogy - it is a dumbed down concept that is easy to grasp, but is wrong and virtually useless. For example, instead of having FOUR 'pieces' that pie can have ONE, TWO or THREE 'pieces', and NEVER FOUR. If the tire is motionless, there is only one 'piece' (Reserve.) If moving in a straight line, there are AT MOST two 'pieces' (Acceleration OR Braking, and Reserve - if any.) And if moving in other than a straight line there are AT MOST three 'pieces' (Acceleration OR Braking, Cornering, and Reserve - if any.) So we already know that the visualization is mis-representing.

At least in the figure I drew for you above I have attempted to show you that the piece of the pie shown as 'A' is EITHER Acceleration force OR Braking force. In other words, the pie can have no more than three pieces. Nothing earth shattering about that mis-representation, but please bear with me as we next try to determine anything of value from the MSF's 'Traction Pie' concept.

Let's first look at the circle itself. The MSF would have you believe that it represents the traction provided by a tire. Fine. But there are no numbers associated with that circle so we must conclude that it represents 100% of that traction. And how much is that? I mean it is a finite number, right? Let's be charitable and say that *YOUR* tire can provide enough traction so that it supports 1.0g of force (Acceleration, Braking, Cornering.) So, I suppose, and the students will as well, that the circle would represent 1.0g. That is, the 'pieces' of the pie, when added together will amount to 1.0g.

There is a problem already. The amount of traction your tire provides is NOT independent of the roadway surface. If that tire is in the air, for example, it supports ZERO Acceleration, Braking and Cornering forces - thus, I suppose, that means there is only one 'piece' of that pie - Reserve. And since there is a Reserve 'piece' of that pie, the MSF would claim that you are not in trouble. If your tire is in the air you are NOT then in control and that, to me, means that you ARE in trouble.

But let's say that the tire is on the ground and moving. How much traction does it provide? I assure you that it does NOT provide 1.0g worth unless the coefficient of friction between that tire and the roadway is 1.0. In other words, that circle actually represents the coefficient of friction available (sometimes called the 'drag factor'.)

So let's pretend that all the students know that and that the drag factor happens to be 1.0. Is the visualization then right? No.

What would the diagram look like if the tire was moving in a straight line, that the drag factor was 1.0, and it was braking at a rate of 0.5g's?

Would you agree that this is a fair representation of that scenario using the MSF's 'Traction Pie' visualization?

Well, I'll not quibble here except to say that almost everybody would because they will be dealing with a false assumption, but for practical purposes I will agree that it is fair in that it shows that a good deal of Reserve exists and the tire is not skidding or sliding.

But let's change the scenario and say that we are looking at the 'Traction Pie' for a tire and that in addition to supporting a 0.5g braking force is also supporting a 0.5g Cornering force. Again, total traction supported by the tire is 1.0. Is, then, this diagram fair and correct? Since there is no Reserve 'piece' of the pie left, is this tire about to skid or slide?

The answer to those questions is a decided NO! Though it shows the assumptions made using the concepts earlier explained, it totally misrepresents reality. The tire in this example is nowhere close to a skid or a slide - there remains a Reserve of about 0.3g's of force that it can support.

And now you see the fundamental problem with the MSF's 'Traction Pie' visualization - it does not convey reality even in concept form and students have absolutely no way of understanding the actual dynamics of traction from it. A correct and fair 'Traction Pie' chart using the information provided would be:

How is this possible? Simple. Braking and Acceleration forces are ORTHOGONAL (Perpendicular) to cornering forces.

So that, according to Pythagoreas, instead of the total force being the sum of those forces, it is the Square root of the sum of the squares. Thus, the amount of traction used in the example is NOT 1.0. Instead, it is 0.7. That leaves 0.3 in Reserve.

Forces are always directional. That is, they are VECTORED quantities. In order for the 'Traction Pie' to represent reality, therefore, it would have to be a vector diagram. In that case, instead of the area of the circle representing total traction available, it must be that the RADIUS of that circle does that. In other words, if you were to apply line segments from the center of the circle of a length equal to the amount of force being described, and the DIRECTION of those line segments representing the vector, it would have much greater utility (and accuracy.)

Our current example would be represented this way:

It would be clear that since the vectored total forces line did not go beyond the edge of the circle that the tire was not about to skid or slide.

And if we then increased one of those forces from 0.5g's to, say, 0.9g's, the resulting diagram would look like this and a skid or slide would already have happened!

Please pay attention to what was just said.Â  The MSF teachings have left virtually every graduate of their classes with the absolute belief that if you are in a turn you must NOT use your brakes without first standing your bike upright. What you just saw is how preposterous that belief actually is. Unless your bike is leaned over at close to 45 degrees and, therefore, taking nearly 1.0 full g's of lateral (cornering) force, you have the ability to use somewhat more braking force than you think without exceeding the traction limits of your tires. How much?

Well, let's look at a normal and reasonable example. You are traveling at 50 MPH in a curve that has a radius of 335 feet. As a result, your bike is leaned over at an angle of 27 degrees and you are experiencing lateral acceleration of 0.5g's. How hard can you brake in that case without exceeding the traction your tire's provide?

Again assuming that your tires (and the roadway) support 1.0g's of force before skidding or sliding, then you can apply as much as 0.87g's of braking force. That is a WORLD-CLASS BRAKING EFFORT before a slide will occur! Most riders cannot get a deceleration rate of more than about 0.80g's, even in a panic stop! (I should point out that though you will not slide in this scenario, you WILL widen your turn - perhaps a great deal!)

Here is the output of a model I created that shows this scenario for you. Note the 'Maximum Deceleration Rate' line near the bottom.

Now, please pay attention! The model shows a maximum deceleration rate that is higher than real! That, because until I modify it to include the effects of weight transfer in the calculation of that maximum for each tire, it shows a result for an imaginary vehicle having only a single tire - thus, without weight transfer effects.

Now if you REALLY wanted to reflect some reality with the 'Traction Pie' diagram and teach some valuable information along with showing a visualization, you might want to tell the students that the 'Traction Pie' is not really a circle at all. It is more like an oblong. That's right, some tires provide greater Braking/Acceleration traction then they do Cornering traction:

While others, perhaps those you want to put on your sport bikes for example, provide better Cornering traction than they do Braking/Acceleration traction:

But, hey, all of that defies the dumbed down approach - designed to 'make learning easier and more fun', so don't hold your breath.

See Spot. See Spot run.

Copyright Â© 1992 - 2019 by The Master Strategy Group, all rights reserved.

(James R. Davis is a recognized expert witness in the fields of Motorcycle Safety/Dynamics.)

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Here are some photos from this past week's Central Jersey Daily Rundown! Wochit

SOMERVILLE – Expense controls, and increased revenues from a shared services program with Hunterdon County and more businesses have allowed the Somerset County Board of Chosen Freeholders to introduce a 2018 county budget this week that reduces the county tax rate.

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READ:Gov. Murphy not backing down on tax plan

READ:Somerset County towns move ahead with affordable housing plans

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Thursday, 23 February 2017
KUALA LUMPUR, 23 February – The exemplary works of Prasarana Malaysia Berhad (Prasarana)- leader in the transformation of Malaysia’s public transport services and operator of Makkah’s Al Mashaaer Al Mugaddassah Metro Southern Line (MMMSL) in Saudi Arabia – has been duly recognised by the prestigious Middle East Business Leaders Awards (MEBLA).

Prasarana’s President and Group CEO, Dato’ Sri Azmi Abdul Aziz was accorded with the Leadership Excellence in Infrastructure Development award at the 7th edition of MEBLA, which was held in London on February 17.

MEBLA was organised by The Leaders International, a high-profile business magazine based in Malaysia and endorsed by American Leadership Development Association, a US-based non-government organization that showcases global leadership at large.

The organization received 123 nominations from 17 countries for various categories of awards where 32 companies as winners by judges in different categories and from various sectors including information technology, publishing, textile, public transport as well as beauty and wellness.

Prasarana was accorded the award in recognition of its massive contribution in management of public transport operations and development of public transport infrastructure that included the new LRT Line Extension Project, which was officially opened in June last year and South East Asia’s first elevated Bus Rapid Transit system using full-fledged electric buses in Bandar Sunway.

Prasarana also spearheaded the operations of the world’s most challenging rail services in the form of the MMMSL, which provided public transport convenience for more than 300,000 pilgrims from Middle East and South Asia in performing their haj.

Thanking MEBLA for the honour, Dato’ Sri Azmi said the award was further recognition to the transformation agenda that had been carried out by the Group in revitalizing the country’s public transport industry.

“As one of key drivers in public transport transformation, we are indeed honoured to be accorded international recognition of our works and services. This award, along with the other prestigious accolades that we have received, will indeed enhance our commitment and dedication to fully realize the transformation agenda and spur us to work harder,” he added.

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6 posts
new member
Apr 29, 2017 - 3:51 AM

As I am planning to visit Switzerland-France in Mid of October 2017, I got some question and need your help to advise on my itenary.

I and my friends will start the trip from Zurich (1)-> Strasbourg (1)-> Lucerne (1)-> Interlaken(2) -> Zermatt(1) -> Montreux -> Chamonix (1)-> Annecy (1)-> Paris (3)

1) Should I buy Europass or Swisspass or both since i plan to take cruise along Lake Thun , Gornergrat -Matterhorn, but not Jungfrau. which Swisspass will get 50% off for ticket. But since I will travel quite a lot during my trip,I have check ticket price point to point which quite costly. Pls help advise what would be the good option for the railpass.

2) Between Lake Thun and Brienz, if I have to pick one, what would be the recommended.

3) Train from Interlaken to Lauterbrunnan and Grindelwald ? Is it free with Swisspass or any discount for Europass?

4) Any comment on my itenary plan or should I adjust or add any for my 11 days trip ?

Thank you for your kind help again.

12095 posts
expert &
Apr 29, 2017 - 8:26 AM

Hi Jin,

1) Regarding the pass names: SwissPass is for Swiss citizens only. The Swiss Travel Pass is the pass for tourists. The other pass you are considering is the Eurail Select Pass I think. My best guess is that the Swiss Travel Pass is your best option for within Switzerland as that's where you'll do most of your trips. For the few trips in France you can buy point to point tickets. Please see the links for all the details.

2) Both are absolutely wonderful. Lake Brienz is smaller and takes less time, if that's important. You can check our Lake Thun and Lake Brienz pages to compare.

3) This is free with the Swiss Travel Pass and 25% discounted with the Eurail Select Pass. The above pages I linked to allow you to download a map of what's included.

4) My main comment is that 1-day stays do not allow you to see much. You will spend quite some time on traveling and changing hotels. Personally I would prefer one full day in each place at the very least, but possibly more (3 days will work). The weather is a factor too. If you stay longer you have a better chance of visiting a peak in nice weather to enjoy the views. To put things in perspective: you could stay in Lucerne for all of your 11 days and do something new every day. There is a lot to do and see :-)

Last modified on Apr 29, 2017 - 8:27 AM by Arno
204 posts
active member
Apr 30, 2017 - 11:37 PM

Hi JinJinny,

I agree with Arno about 1-day stays. If you try and see too much, you wind up seeing the inside of a lot of trains and less of your destinations. I would question your visit to Strabourg. It is a beautiful city, but it doesn't fit in neatly with the rest of your itinerary and going Zurich - Strasbourg - Lucerne will involve hours of travelling.

If I had to decide between the Thunersee or Brienzersee, I'd pick Lake Thun, I find it more interesting than Lake Brienz with sights like Schloss Oberhofen www.schlossoberhofen.c h/de/home right on the water.

Have fun

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It is summer and once again time to sign up for the Senior Farmers Market Nutrition program. This is an opportunity for Portage County senior citizens (at least 60 years of age) with a monthly one-person household income of $1,658 ($2,233 for a two-person household) to obtain $50 worth of vouchers to be spent at local Farmers Markets.

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You must provide proof of income and age at the time you apply. Keep in mind, like any other program like this, there are more of you who are eligible, than there are vouchers to be distributed. This is a federally funded program, distributed by the Ohio Department of Aging to various entities within its borders.

University Hospitals Portage Medical Center in Ravenna will once again be sponsoring a Farmers Market in its front parking lots.

The Markets will open the last week of June, and run through September. Watch the newspaper and signs outside the Portage Medical Center for the exact date. Once again it is being coordinated by the Auxiliary and Volunteer Department.

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The Forum will include information tables, door prizes, health screenings and a free lunch.

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This program also makes federal funds available to assist low income residents who financially qualify (up to 200 percent of the national poverty level). These funds can assist you with your electric bills, so that you can afford to run your air conditioners and fans during hot weather.

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Politics & Policy

Does Anyone Besides Jeff Sessions Defend Today’s Civil-Forfeiture Practices?

(Reuters photo: Jim Bourg)
Sentence first, then the verdict. No ‘judicial process.’ And good luck if you want your house back.

 “The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. . . . The worst thing in the world varies from individual to individual.”

— George Orwell, 1984

Philadelphia — For Christos and Markela Sourovelis, for whom the worst thing was losing their home, “Room 101” was Courtroom 478 in City Hall. This “courtroom”’s name is Orwellian: There was neither judge nor jury in it. There the city government enriched itself — more than $64 million in a recent eleven-year span — by disregarding due-process requirements in order to seize and sell the property of people who have not been accused, never mind convicted, of a crime.

The Sourovelises’ son, who lived at home, was arrested for selling a small amount of drugs away from home. Soon there was a knock on their door by police who said, “We’re here to take your house” and “You’re going to be living on the street” and “We do this every day.” The Sourovelises’ doors were locked with screws and their utilities were cut off. They had paid off the mortgage on their $350,000 home, making it a tempting target for policing for profit.

Nationwide, proceeds from sales of seized property (homes, cars, etc.) go to the seizers. And under a federal program, state and local law enforcement can partner with federal authorities in forfeiture and reap up to 80 percent of the proceeds. This is called — more Orwellian newspeak — “equitable sharing.”

No crime had been committed in the Sourovelises’ house, but the title of the case against them was “Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. 12011 Ferndale Street.” Somehow, a crime had been committed by the house. In civil forfeiture, it suffices that property is suspected of having been involved in a crime. Once seized, the property’s owners bear the burden of proving their property’s innocence. “Sentence first — verdict afterwards,” says the queen in Alice in Wonderland.

In Courtroom 478, the prosecutors usually assured people seeking to reclaim their property that they would not need lawyers. The prosecutors practiced semi-extortion, suggesting how people could regain limited control of their property: They could sell it and give half the proceeds to the city. The “hearings” in Courtroom 478 were often protracted over months, and missing even one hearing could result in instant forfeiture.

In civil forfeiture there usually is no proper “judicial process.”

The Sourovelises were allowed to return to their house only after waiving their rights to statutory or constitutional defenses in a future forfeiture action. Such action was forestalled when their case came to the attention of the Institute for Justice, public-interest litigators who never received the “You can’t fight city hall” memo. It disentangled the Sourovelises from the forfeiture machine, shut down Courtroom 478, and now is seeking a court ruling to tether this machine to constitutional standards.

There might somewhere be a second prominent American who endorses today’s civil-forfeiture practices, but one such person is “very unhappy” with criticisms of it. At a 2015 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on forfeiture abuses, one senator said “taking and seizing and forfeiting, through a government judicial process, illegal gains from criminal enterprises is not wrong,” and neither is law enforcement enriching itself from this. In the manner of the man for whom he soon will work, this senator asserted an unverifiable number: “Ninety-five percent” of forfeitures involve people who have “done nothing in their lives but sell dope.” This senator said it should not be more difficult for “government to take money from a drug dealer than it is for a businessperson to defend themselves in a lawsuit.” In seizing property suspected of involvement in a crime, government “should not have a burden of proof higher than in a normal civil case.”

#related#IJ’s Robert Everett Johnson notes that this senator missed a few salient points: In civil forfeiture there usually is no proper “judicial process.” There is no way of knowing how many forfeitures involve criminals because the government takes property without even charging anyone with a crime. The government’s vast prosecutorial resources are one reason it properly bears the burden of proving criminal culpability “beyond a reasonable doubt.” A sued businessperson does not have assets taken until he or she has lost in a trial, whereas civil forfeiture takes property without a trial and the property owner must wage a protracted, complex, and expensive fight to get it returned. The Senate Judiciary Committee might want to discuss all this when considering the nominee to be the next attorney general, Alabama senator Jeff Sessions.

George Will — George Will is a Pulitzer Prize–winning syndicated columnist. His email address is georgewill@washpost.com.

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Wetland Birds

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Blog post

Let them paste passwords

Created:  12 Jan 2017
Updated:  12 Jan 2017
Author:  Sacha B
Copy paste wall code

One of the things people often tweet to us @ncsc are examples of websites which prevent you pasting in a password. Why do websites do this? The debate has raged - with most commentators raging how annoying it is.

So why do organisations do this? Often no reason is given, but when one is, that reason is 'security'. The NCSC don't think the reasons add up. We think that stopping password pasting (or SPP) is a bad thing that reduces security. We think customers should be allowed to paste their passwords into forms, and that it improves security.

No one knows where it came from

It is a mystery where SPP came from. No one has pointed to a paper, a rule, an RFC (a technical standards document to plan how the Internet should work) or anything else that started it off. If you know of one, let us know using the comments form below. We believe it's one of those 'best practice' ideas that has a common sense instant appeal that may have made sense once. Considering the bigger picture today, it really doesn't make sense.

So why is password pasting a good thing?

The main reason why password pasting improves security is because it helps to reduce password overload, something that we cover in our Password Guidance. Allowing the pasting of passwords makes web forms work well with password managers. Password managers are software (or services) that choose, store and enter passwords into online forms for you. Password managers are very useful because they:

  • make it much easier to have different passwords for each website site you use
  • improve your productivity and reduce frustration by preventing typing errors during logins
  • make it simple to use long, complex passwords

Disclaimer: although password managers can offer better protection than - for example - keeping your passwords in a normal (and so unprotected) document on your computer, they are not a silver bullet to solve all of an organisation's password problems. We'll write more in a future blogpost about things to consider when picking a password manager.

Imagine if you didn't have a password manager, or even that unprotected document on your computer with your passwords in it. Without password managers, it would be pretty much impossible to remember all your passwords. To cope without them you'd have to do some of these bad things:

  • re-use the same passwords on different websites
  • choose very simple (and so easy to guess) passwords
  • write passwords down in places that are easy to find (like post-it notes next to the screen)

This is why we think SPP is bad, and allowing password pasting is good. The pros outweigh the cons, and by a lot.

Why stopping password pasting (SPP) is wrong

There are other reasons that are used to justify SPP. The small and misleading grain of truth in these reasons can sound very persuasive. Here's why they're wrong.

Justification 1: 'Password pasting allows brute force attacks'

If password pasting is allowed, that represents a vulnerability where malicious software or web pages could repeatedly paste password guesses into the password box until they break your password.

This is true, but it's also true that there are other ways to make guesses (for example through an API) that are just as easy for attackers to set up, but are much faster at guessing. The risk of brute force attacks using copy and paste is very small.

Justification 2: 'Pasting passwords makes them easier to forget, because you have fewer chances to practise them'.

It's true  - in principle - that the more times you recall something, the easier it is next time.

In the real world though, people are made to have passwords for things that they hardly ever use. This means there isn't enough time to practise, and therefore little chance of remembering. This whole justification only works if you assume, to begin with, that users should always have to try and remember their passwords - and that's not always true.

People are also made to have passwords for things they use so often they couldn't forget the password even if they wanted to (which is quite inconvenient if you're forced to change the password regularly), and typing in the rotten thing again and again eats into their day. Password managers are a stick these people lean on, and SPP kicks it away.

Justification 3: 'Passwords would hang around in the clipboard'

When anyone copies and pastes, the copied content is kept in a 'clipboard' where it can be pasted as many times as they want. Any software installed on the computer (or any person operating it) has access to the clipboard, and can see what's in there.  Copying anything usually writes over what was already in the clipboard and destroys it.

Many password managers copy your password to the clipboard so they can paste it into the password box on websites. The possible risk is that an attacker (or malware) will steal your password before it's erased from the clipboard.

Passwords remaining in the clipboard might be more of an issue if you're manually copying and pasting your passwords from a document you have on your computer. You might forget to clear the clipboard. However it's not much of a risk because:

  • Most password managers erase the clipboard as soon as they have pasted your password into the website, and some avoid the clipboard completely by typing in the password with a 'virtual keyboard' instead.
  • The web browser 'Internet Explorer 6' allows evil web pages to copy the clipboard; but very few people in the UK still use IE6 to browse the web.
  • Viruses installed on your computer can have clipboard copiers on them, and grab your pasted passwords. That's still not a good reason for SPP though; when your computer gets infected you can't trust it at all. Viruses and other malware that copy the clipboard nearly always also copy every letter, number and symbol typed on your computer, including your passwords. They would steal your password whether or not it was in the clipboard, so you're not really gaining much by SPP.

Rather than stopping password pasting, help your computers to avoid catching viruses in the first place by following our guidance on securing enterprise IT. And install software updates - the IT version of eating your fruit and veg. It's one of the very best ways of securing your computer.

Don't just take our word for it

You don't have to take our word for it that stopping password pasting is bad.  See Troy Hunt's blog (with a History lesson for us all), or this article in Wired

Improve your security by supporting your users.  Let them paste passwords.

Sacha B

Sociotechnical Security Researcher

Steven Murdoch - 12 Jan 2017
Agreed. This is closely related to the other common practice of setting autocomplete="off" for password fields to disable the browser’s in-built password manager. For similar reasons to those outlined in this post I argued this was a bad idea:

I think some modern browsers now ignore the autocomplete setting, and instead respect the user’s preference, but it still causes problems with misguided websites.

In fact, as I argue, disabling autocomplete (and copy-and-paste) makes phishing easier because smart password managers bind passwords to web addresses and so creates an obstacle to typing a password for one site into another.
Sacha B - 18 Jan 2017
Dr. M

Hello! Thanks very much for commenting.

We like your idea about autocomplete. Passwords and password management are contentious, sometimes high passion topics. It's great to have such thoughtful contributions as this. Even when we agree with them! ;)
Simon - 16 Jan 2017
The password manager we use allows you to clear the clipboard after a given period if you used the clipboard, a feature that we use, since people accidentally paste passwords (even if IE6 is no longer a worry).

Re: Justification 2 - if people don't know their passwords, and it always auto-fills from the password manager, there is a sporting chance they'll spot phishing attacks (because they won't autofill).
Andrew Parsons - 15 Jun 2017
I agree completely with the comment about spotting phishing attacks. Very few people 'hover' to check that a URL is as it should be. If the URL is wrong, a password manager simply won't respond. So appropriate password managers (with pasting!) are the way ahead.
Phil Sheehan - 16 Jan 2017
It is refreshing when you see an organisation setting out to do the right things with the aim to make life easier for people. You do not normally associate a security organisation with the previous statement but I do like the guidance given by NCSC and they have some excellent articles on their site. This blog article and the NCSC past advice on password change frequency (or rather infrequency) is spot on and is an acceptance of the reality of today’s burden on users.
I would like to congratulate the NCSC on their service and on their site generally and specifically for applying some common sense and pragmatism to established practices that fall into the category “Oh, but we have always done it that way”. Well done and thank you and perhaps we can get some support for the thought that Security and convenience is not an oxymoron!
BEN - 18 Jan 2017
The reason SPP came about is because it promoted the writing down and storing of passwords which at the time usually meant in unprotected documents with names like ‘passwords.doc’.
The use of a password manager is what your whole article hinges on, hell it’s so intrinsic to your argument you’ve even had to add a disclaimer in your ‘for’ removal of SPP that password managers are ‘not a silver bullet to solve all of an organisation's password problems’.
Forget brute force, not remembering passwords and even the clipboard the security risk of removing SPP will be a perception that wiring down passwords is acceptable and an increase in the number of the general public storing them in unprotected files.
While titles like ‘Let them paste passwords’ are eye catching this has to be backed up with serious promotion of the general use of secure credential storage solutions.
Sacha B - 23 Jan 2017
BEN, Hi and thanks! You've hit the nail on the head about storage. We absolutely definitely approve of and encourage storage to be matched to the importance of the passwords you're storing: the more sensitive the passwords, the stronger their protections should be Helping users to store their passwords is on of our top seven passwords tips for organisations. See it in our Password Guidance (link is in the blog post or at
Christopher - 18 May 2017
If you think that they are not storing passwords in an insecure file whether you let them paste or not, you are not living in reality. At least in a file, the file should be on an encrypted disk behind a session login. If they can paste the password, they have an incentive to store it electronically. Without the ability to paste, they are just as likely to write it on a sticky note.
Max Vasilyev - 21 Jan 2017
Well, this is just talk. How about start fixing * services so they accept password from password manager? Let's start from passport application one: ips-olc gs10_01.form
Jeff Sergeant - 14 Feb 2017
Check out the OWASP Application Security Verification Standard 2.7 "Verify password entry fields allow, or encourage, the use of passphrases, and do not prevent password managers, long passphrases or highly complex passwords being entered."

Maybe we should explicitly say "don't stop people pasting passwords" . A reference to a recognised comprehensive standard would be helpful!
Toby Newbatt - 15 Feb 2017
Great advice and an interesting topic! Also consider using 2FA as an additional step to protect the key single password in password managers and critical systems.
Tariq Rashid - 16 Feb 2017
I think the practice came from new account setup when pasting your pass into the verify field risked locking yourself out if you pasted the wrong pass.

Account setup is different to account login.
Graham Lyons - 22 Dec 2018
This is the place I find it most frustrating. I've auto-generated my password and pasted it into the password field, but the confirmation field wants me to type it in.
Frederik Vanhoutte - 17 Feb 2017
I wonder if this practice didn't start with a practical concern during registration or signup. I create an account, hidden type my password of choice and copy-paste it in the password confirmation window.
However, I made a(n invisible) typo and effectively created an account with a password unknown to me. "Recover password", etc...
Solution, disable copy-paste and force typing it twice.
Paul Moore - 18 Feb 2017
Hi Sacha

I know we're supposed to be debating this later, but until such time, here's my 2c.

TL;DR - There are perfectly legitimate reasons to disable paste, including increasing security.

One aspect many forget is that disabled users are often dependent on password manager software especially visually impaired,dyslexic (such as mysel) and those using eye flicker etc to control their computer. Using password managers with copy paste allows usders to have random and very long passwords like 20 digits or more, try to remember such long passwords would be very difficult
glenn tripp - 26 Feb 2017
Short story - notify someone pasting is blocked / prevented. If the site needs super security do that.
Jim Holmes - 27 Feb 2017
Tell TFL about this! On their password change page, they allow a password manager to paste into the first field but not into the confirmation field. I discovered this because they were affected by Cloudbleed so I smugly set about using Dashlane to change passwords quickly, only to be thwarted by this one. Oh, and their validation regexp doesn't allow some perfectly legit special chars, e.g., brace brackets.
Desmond Boksan-Cullen - 01 Mar 2017
My final previous point about using very long password being greatly aided by using a paste from password management software is that long passwords makes hackers' work harder. My windows password is 26 digits and my banking one is over that. Why forms etc on the Web talk about security but accept six digit passwords is beyond me.
Matthew Atkinson - 21 Mar 2017
Came here to mention TFL (part of the same Government as NCSC) but Jim Holmes has beaten me to it.

Exactly as Jim said, I went to and had to manually type my 32 character strong password into the second box. I got it right luckily, but I could easily have just given up and put in a simple password.

Please bring them up to date and stop this restrictive practice.
Igor - 18 May 2017
Ha, I was signing up into home security software today and they didn't let me to paste password, so instead of the very long, random generated password, I choose to opt in with the weak one that I can easily type. I agree this reduces security.
John Woodward - 18 May 2017
Great Article. Preventing password pasting drives me crazy. If you are on a Mac, I have 2 apps that work around this. PW Master is a password manager that allows for typing passwords. Paste Master is a clipboard manager that allows for typing text clipboards.
BihtSift - 18 May 2017
Development tools always enable me to get around these form fields anyway by allowing me to paste in my password directly into the html.

Unrelated but related, dev tools are great to get rid of walled garden prompts or annoying ads (assuming the main content has already been downloaded)
Darryl Leckenby - 18 May 2017
Preventing copy and paste guarantees that a keylogger would reveal your password. Just a thought on where copy and paste has a useful application in the login form scenario.
Steve Slade - 18 May 2017
I think it is a wrong assumption to make about "remembering different passwords" being too difficult.

If we educate people into using a password pattern and "seed" approach, you can have unique and memorable passwords for every site.

For example. Your seed password might be
"TortoiSe" note the cap letter.

Your pattern might then be. Take the 1st and 3rd letter of the site name. Add it to the start and end. Also the number 65 (best to choose a memorable number for personal reasons)

Your password for Facebook would then be:

For Gmail it would be

This is a pretty simplified example, you might opt to add in a few non alphanumerics for added complexity.

You don't need to remember the passwords, just your pattern and seed. Once you have used it a few times, it becomes second nature.

It is also important to educate people at an early age to get them used to thinking about security and how to think about passwords.
Sacha B - 25 May 2017
Two contrasting approaches are to try to make people fit in with the 'system' better, or to try to make the 'system' fit in with people better. Your scheme could help some people. However, we believe that the greatest gains in useful security are possible if we do more of adapting the system and less of adapting the people.
Kevin Mills - 24 Mar 2018
Deterministic password algorithms like that are fatally flawed.

Two words: password resets. You're using a seed and public info (e.g. site name) to generate the password. So you can remember it, you always use the same seed. Problem - you have to use a different seed to change the password for a particular site, which you'd want to do if, say, the site got hacked.

Your only option is really to pick a different seed and update every password for every service you have whenever you think there's a chance even one of those passwords has been compromised.

You might be tempted to pick a different seed and only use it for that site, but that leads you down a dark road. Over time, more sites will need password resets and get moved to the second seed. And it's only a matter of time before one of those sites needs a second password reset, and you need to throw a third seed in the mix. Remembering three seeds isn't the issue; remembering which sites use which seeds is.

And all of this is ignoring the elephant in the room. Is it even possible to devise an algorithm that could be used for this purpose? No - different sites have different rules for what kinds of passwords they allow. Short of memorizing which specific combination of rules every site has and having that as an input to your algorithm so that it outputs a valid one, it isn't possible.

And honestly, memorizing which specific set of password restrictions every site uses doesn't sound much easier than memorizing passwords; I certainly wouldn't bet on us being able to memorize unique password restriction rules.

Just use a password manager. Even if your incredibly simplistic algorithm didn't have the problems I just mentioned (no good way to do password resets, won't work on sites with different password rules), there's no way it would be easier than a cloud password manager browser extension.
Grom moss - 18 May 2017
One additional point is that copy/paste stops keyloggers from capturing your password
Linus - 18 May 2017
I strongly disagree with your reasoning around justification 3; it's much easier for anti-malware to detect malicious keyboard hooks than to detect malicious clipboard reading. One tends to not handle passwords in regular old character pointers for a reason and all that work goes out the Windows when you store it in the clipboard instead.

While I can buy with your overall point that disallowing pasting of passwords is on average worse for usability than allowing it is for security I feel your reasoning is questionable.
Cb - 18 May 2017
When using a password with auto-type, you can sometimes change the autotype sequence to type your new password (or even twice with TAB inbetween) and not worry about the pasting thing. Works well in keepass for example.
Fernando - 18 May 2017
Congratulatios by your post.
Its really interesting
Wade Mealing - 19 May 2017
Reason #1 is absolutely incorrect, brute force passwords wouldn't result to pasting, that is far too slow, direct form submission for bruteforce is only the -first step- to feasible brute forcing in most cases. No sane attacker uses pasted brute force passwords.
Pattiyahoo - 19 May 2017
Should I change my passwordpattigibson
Sacha B - 25 May 2017
If your password is "pattigibson" then yes, probably!
Andrew - 19 May 2017
Security works in layers - like a castle with a moat, open field, etc. A key 'real world' aspect of security is the presence of the authorized person. An added layer is independent validation - a government issued id card. A different layer is a witness.
Similarly multi factor authentication - what you know, what you have, what you are - works in layers. A password is linked to an identifier and is intended to show what you know.
Stopping pasting is intended to increase the probability that a person who knows the password is present at the time it is entered.
Sacha B - 25 May 2017
Multi-factor authentication is very important, but also very difficult to do well. We're thinking hard about it. Watch this space!
Kevin Mills - 24 Mar 2018
Regardless of what the intentions happen to be, what stopping password pasting actually does in practice is ensures that people use short, easy to type, easy to guess passwords.

If someone said "We store passwords in plain text" and, after seeing your looks of horror, they said that "Storing passwords in plain text helps to cure cancer", the fact that they have ultimately noble intentions for compromising their security doesn't change anything. Their actions are not having the desired effect.
Adam - 19 May 2017
Awesome. While fixing this how about fixing the obfuscated password field? When was the last time you had somebody lurking over your shoulder while you typed your password or logged into anything sensitive for that matter?

All of these practices encourage people to have weak passwords.
Sacha B - 25 May 2017
We're always interested to hear about security and usability issues. Please keep them coming in!
LMH - 19 May 2017
Allowing a website to disable a user's ability to control their own software is frankly something that no browser should permit in the first place. Thankfully tools like greasemonkey can wrest back control and make clipboard restrictions completely ineffective, but I'm hopeful that someday browsers will just automatically ignore these inane limitations just like lovely <blink> tags.
m-p{3} - 19 May 2017
Thankfully I can use the auto-type feature to counter-those paste-less fields.
Sensitive data pasted from my clipboard - 19 May 2017
When you sign up for an account, making the user type their new password twice helps them remember it. Allowing them to paste will increase the number of forgotten passwords. However, having a checkbox which will allow the user to reveal their new password is more effective. This is only relevant to the signing up form and disabling paste on a login form has no logical purpose.
ana - 30 Jun 2017
It depends on the greatest perceived threat vetor/s:
. physical/domestic/local/line-of-sight => keep passwords locked-down in a locked-down account
. remote/drive-by credential collection/exfiltrate-and-run => physical-world record and all entry by hand
. long-term local digital security breach => oops!
. physhing => automated warnings should sound (& email clients should not allow click-through when a link doesn't pass a live security certificate check of authenticity)

also, perhaps consider the signature analogue - it's the way that it's written, not what is written, that counts: identical content is usual, but absolutely identical is a forgery; is password typing rhythm a clue? Perhaps a <website> should give the user the password, and the way that it's entered should be the key? just thinking out-loud...

anyway, interesting, tl;dr = it depends...
Jobst - 28 Jul 2017
Part of my job is to look after a questionnaire/assessment website. The questionnaires/assessments are filled out by people of all ages, jobs and education ... there are many, many people who (yes even these days!) are not capable users of computers.
I learned very early (as in many, many years back) that I have to make it easy for users entering their usernames and passwords, otherwise we would be on the phone for half a day to help these people.
Also, copying and pasting username/passwords clearly helps "typing" them in correctly reducing the calls of "I am 100% sure I typed my password correctly" although you could see in the logging mechanisms they did not.
I see it this way: While we need to educate people to have good security developers need to adapt to users, we need to meet half way. If I cannot tell a person to use a password manager I can tell them to use something similar to @Steve Slade's approach - which I have done for many years. Most people I explain that approach you can see their eyes lighting up "what a great idea, thank you".
Don't try to bash something into them (aka no pasting, 100character passwords) but rather help them to develop and learn.
Mark Scott - 10 Aug 2017
I'm having a discussion with Plusnet about this. Their mobile phone signup process misguidedly mandates the allowable password character set and disables pasting.
Passwords are supposed to be a shared secret, not a test of the user's memory or keyboard skills.
Rachel - 05 Oct 2017
If you allow copy and paste, why bother requesting double entry of the password at all?
Alexa Tilbrook - 13 Apr 2018
This isn't just in the UK, folks, either. Comcast (the USA's biggest cable television provider) prohibits this on their login page, effectively rendering password managers (like KeePass) useless. There is much lamenting on the Xfinity (Comcast's "rebranding") forums about this and their response is the same: "durrr, brute force attack." I don't like JavaScript to be abused like this in the name of security. Right click disable is also another egregious abuse of JavaScript. In that, it claims to prevent "stealing", but many assistive technology relies on the right click to copy and paste for screen readers. Some sites do both (prevent pasting password and disabling right click to get to the "Paste" command) to prevent pasting password. (Comcast does that.)

It's ridiculous.

Also, ridiculous password restrictions need to go, too. No website should tell me that [!|@|#|$|%|^|&|*|(|)|whatever] are "invalid." Maximum password lengths need to go, also. It's a problem that webmasters trained in the MS way, which you can blame the old WinNT [4.0-era] winlogin.exe for that... which used such draconian policy which most sites today still employ. (It was a holdover from VMS that made it that way.)

Thanks for this insightful post from the USA!
Erik - 05 May 2018
What about them Microsoft? Among other sites, Microsoft now displays account email field on one page and the password on another page. Very unfriendly for those of us who use password managers!
Andrew - 26 Jun 2018
Great article, great conversation. Anyway I’ll summarise it:
- if a malicious bit of code or actor is in memory, it’s game over, concerns elsewhere. Change all your passwords, consider any system, session, information or data, cached or used credentials compromised. That’s the reality.
- if the transport is unencrypted and you’re entering creds into a form, you’re probably using the wrong service or app and should re-evaluate what you are about to do, regardless of method
- whether you paste or type it in is irrelevant really. Scenario, your input is hacked through physical or logical means, typing it offers more risk because you’re competing with the physical vector and trusting peripherals, cables and the hardware inside your machine. If it’s stored encrypted at rest and only ever seen in memory before being transmitted/submitted (maybe written to disk if cached or user opts to save the creds), then the physical keyboard/peripheral jacking techniques aren’t of that much concern for the form scenario.They probably got your logon password and living in memory at that point any way, so your logon account is probably more valuable than a single credential used in a specific form). Time to ask ourselves the stats on how many ppl use the same password for logon as to password safe not to mention the different password stores that have their own vulnerabilities that may also be exploitable.
- if we are worried so much about passwords getting compromised, make it mandatory to use MFA, lower password complexity settings to make it easier for the users, reduce the frequency of password resets (but don’t remove it completely), and audit and alert on abuse use cases for the forms in question.
- use recaptcha and other technologies if bots are of concern and also ensure that you rate limit logon attempts, progressively compounding the retry interval to eventually make it unfeasible to continue to attack.
- last but not least, educate the users, empower them.
A Powers - 09 Aug 2018
According to Microsoft Security Bulletin MS15-043, unpatched versions of Internet Explorer 7 through 11 are vulnerable to CVE 2015-1692 (Internet Explorer Clipboard Information Disclosure Vulnerability), but it is not applicable to IE version 6.

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Designed to release the intensity and aromas of our coffee assortments, enjoy your favorite Nespresso in our timelessly contemporary PURE Collection cups. Ideal in the hand and on the lips, their thickness varies with each size to keep your Grand Cru at the perfect temperature. Available in four different sizes to meet your preference - Espresso, Lungo, Cappuccino and Mug - the PURE Collection is a perfect way to indulge yourself everyday.


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At Lehman College, Support for Adult Students is Key

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June 7, 2017

This blog post was previously published as part of a body of work that explored Americans’ perceptions of higher education. For more information, please visit

When Michael Paull, the founding dean of the School of Continuing and Professional Studies at the City University of New York (CUNY)-Lehman College in the Bronx, NY, first had the idea to create a program tailored to adults re-entering college in 1978, he recognized that for older students, returning to school was a daunting task. Using money from the college’s Continuing Education program, Paull founded Lehman College’s adult degree program (ADP) to provide case management and advising services. The reason was simple: Paull recognized that it was one thing to get adults re-enrolled, but another altogether to help them overcome obstacles on their way to graduation.

Now approaching its 40th anniversary, Lehman College’s adult degree program is the oldest program of its kind in the CUNY system. It is also fully integrated into the college itself. The ADP has served over 15,000 students since its founding, including nearly one out of ten students currently enrolled at Lehman.

Lehman College’s adult degree program is even more impressive when considering the demographics of the students who enroll. Although students must be at least 25 years old to qualify for the program, the average student in the ADP is 40. Like most adult students, Lehman’s ADP students balance life, work, and school. Four out of five ADP students work while attending school either full- or part-time, with 61 percent of students in full-time, off-campus jobs. With their students’ needs in mind, Lehman works to accommodate and support students, directing them to classes that work with their schedule. And, Lehman is meeting students where they are by providing flexible course scheduling: slightly over half of all ADP students attend school part-time, and 71 percent of students are enrolled primarily in evening or weekend classes.

Lehman’s adult degree program is also representative of the local community: 73 percent of its students are Hispanic or African American, reflecting the surrounding community. Just over a quarter of students in the adult degree program were referred to the program by word-of-mouth, and another quarter were referred to the program through the main admissions office by way of other programs within the School of Continuing and Professional Studies. “Students who are, for example, in our workforce development program [within the School of Continuing and Professional Studies] are told about ADP [by faculty and staff] and they often filter in,” said Jane MacKillop, the interim dean of the School of Continuing and Professional Studies.

Student-centric ADP introductory courses are a cornerstone of the program, not only reintroducing students to skills like time management and studying, but also welcoming them into a community of similar students on an otherwise large campus. “What we find is [adult students] take one of [the ADP’s] introductory classes, look around and say ‘people here look like me, they talk like me, I can be comfortable here,’ and then they matriculate into the program,” said MacKillop.The most unique class, Prior Learning Assessment: Portfolio Development, is a 3-credit course where students create a portfolio of their prior work experience, knowledge, and skills. ADP students can earn up to 15 additional Liberal Arts elective credits based on the content of their portfolio. The benefit is two fold: these credits go a long way in the quest to obtain a degree while also helping boost the morale of adult students who might feel as if their experiences don’t measure up to their college level work.

“Because the portfolio is based on who I am and what I’ve achieved, it made me feel like I wasn’t just a student at Lehman, but a member of the [Lehman] community.” said Maria Camaj, a graduate of the adult degree program.

The ADP’s students also benefit from advising that goes beyond suggesting courses to take. ADP staff are very aware that their students are uniquely vulnerable to a number of issues that stem from a higher education system that favors traditionally-aged students, including how to pay for college.

Holistic support that considers the various complexities of being an adult student is the theme that runs through everything Lehman College’s ADP provides.

“Adult students do best in a one-stop shop environment. We try to be that one-stop shop,” said Pamela Hinden, director of the program, while reflecting on ADP’s purpose. To Camaj, this commitment towards holistic support and understanding is what makes the ADP so effective. For her, “ADP validates us, and that’s a large part of the success, to know that someone sees your experiences as valid.”
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While Funding for Improving Instruction Hangs in the Balance, Data Collection is Key

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Feb. 2, 2018

Last July, the House Appropriations Committee passed a spending bill* that eliminated the $2 billion program that supports improving instruction at the state and local level—Title II, Part A of the Every Student Succeeds Act, also known as Improving Teacher Quality State Grants. Both President Trump and the House justified the cuts with the claim that the “program duplicates activities that may be supported with other funds” and “has not demonstrated success in contributing to improved teacher quality.”

As we’ve argued in the past, rather than eliminating the Title II, Part A program, the federal government could focus on better targeting and tracking the funds. To further make this point, we recently submitted recommendations to the Department that highlight the importance of the survey and suggest changes to better understand the uses of funds. (The U.S. Department of Education is currently accepting comments on its survey that collects data on the use of these funds).

The survey is critical to helping the Department understand how SEAs and LEAs are using federal funds. The data collected by the Department based on these surveys is also important to the policy, advocacy, and research work that organizations like New America and others conduct in order to inform better use of these funds so they effectively meet educators’ needs.

The Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) requires that states annually report to the Department how they are using these funds and how activities are improving educator effectiveness, but data produced from reporting requirements as part of Title II, Part A are not easily accessible, making the survey data even more critical. We need more information, not less, to ensure that federal funds are being used efficiently and effectively to provide high-quality instruction for all students. We recommend that required reporting under ESSA be made readily available to the public, in addition to the survey data, to promote a better understanding of how funds are being used to improve instruction.

We also suggest that the Department revise the survey in several ways to enhance the quality and clarity of the data collected. While the information that is currently collected is vital to understanding how SEAs and LEAs are using these funds, the survey can be improved to collect more meaningful data on how funds are being targeted and, to the extent possible, whether these activities are having an impact. Because of the surveys, we know that Title II, Part A funds are spent, in large part, on professional development, but the professional development categories that LEAs respond to are broad, such as how many teachers participate in “professional development provided by professional development coaches.” This does not provide insight into how teachers are identified to receive coaching or whether the coaching had any impact on the teacher’s practice. It would be helpful to know what data school districts are collecting to determine the impact of their investments in professional learning activities and materials.

Another important update to the survey is that it needs to align with changes in ESSA, particularly the new three percent set-aside of Title II, Part A funds. We recommend that the Department revise the survey and collect data on states’ use of the set aside by collecting the following information:

  • Are states electing to use the three percent set-aside?

  • Are states using the funding to add capacity at the state level or within LEAs?

  • How are states targeting the funds?

  • How are states determining priorities for the use of the funds? (i.e. needs assessments, research and evidence?)

  • Are states collecting outcomes or impact data on the use of the funds?

Additionally, to align with ESSA’s focus on supporting school leaders, the Department should break out survey questions for principals and teachers so that the Department and the public can have a better understanding of how states are specifically supporting principals. It would also be helpful to know if LEAs are surveying educators about the quality of professional learning activities and whether those activities align to the definition of professional development in ESSA and to research-based best practices. If LEAs are collecting this information, LEAs should report this data to SEAs, and in turn, that should be reported to the Department.

Due to the continued dysfunction in Congress—keeping the government open by passing continuing resolutions and effectively delaying funding decisions for the next full fiscal year—we do not yet know what Congress will ultimately decide for the largest federal funding source for educator development, recruitment, and support. But making these changes to the survey will help strengthen the program and help the Department ensure that federal funds for improving instruction are being invested in ways the ultimately improve teaching and learning.

*This bill was approved by the House Appropriations Committee, but did not ultimately become law.

Related Topics
Federal Funding Teachers and Leaders


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February 12, 2019 - 9:30 AM EST
Victory Metals Appoints Doug Forster to its Board of Directors

Victory Metals Appoints Doug Forster to its Board of Directors

VANCOUVER, Feb. 12, 2019 /PRNewswire/ - Victory Metals Inc. ("TSX-V:VMX") ("Victory" or the "Company") is pleased to announce that Mr. Doug Forster, M.Sc., P.Geo., has joined the Board of Directors of the Company effective immediately. The Board and Management of Victory welcome Mr. Forster's participation on the board and believe he will provide key knowledge and understanding on both the project and capital market levels.

Victory Metals Inc. (CNW Group/Victory Metals Inc)

Mr. Forster has been involved in the mining industry and capital markets for over 35 years having acted as geologist, founder, director, senior executive and financier. Most recently he was Founder, President & CEO of Newmarket Gold Inc. ("Newmarket"), which acquired and then operated three gold mines in Australia with annual production of over 225,000 oz/year. Newmarket was acquired by Kirkland Lake Gold in a $1.0 billion transaction in 2016. Doug has extensive experience and a proven track record in resource project development, mine operations, capital markets, equity and debt financing, and mergers and acquisitions. Mr. Forster holds a B.Sc. and M.Sc. in geological sciences from the University of British Columbia and is a Member of the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of British Columbia.

Mr. Forster, Director of Victory stated: "Having worked with Paul Matysek on the advancement and sale of Potash One Inc. in 2011 I am looking forward to once again working with Paul and the Victory Metals board and management team to advance the Iron Point Vanadium Project. The Iron Point Project in Nevada hosts a unique combination of widespread vanadium mineralization, outstanding infrastructure, and favourable mining jurisdiction and represents an excellent foundational asset for Victory Metals."

Paul Matysek, Executive Chairman of Victory stated: "We are very pleased to welcome Mr. Forster on our Board as we advance Iron Point to the next level. I have known Doug for over 30 years, as a fellow entrepreneur and Director. He's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced mining executives in our business and will certainly leave his mark on Victory Metals. We are very fortunate to have him on our team."

About Victory Metals

Victory owns 100% interest in the Iron Point Vanadium Project, 22 miles east of Winnemucca in Humboldt County, Nevada. The project is located a few kilometers off Interstate 80, has electric power lines running through the project area, and a railroad line passing across the northern boundary of the property. The Company is well financed to advance the project through resource estimation and initial feasibility study work. Victory has a proven capital markets and mining team led by Executive Chairman Paul Matysek. Major shareholders include Casino Gold (50%), and management, directors and founders (25%). Further, over 51% of the issued and outstanding shares of the Company (43,471,014 shares) are subject to an escrow release over three years.

Please see the Company's website at www.victorymetals.ca.

On Behalf of the Board of Directors of

Paul Matysek
Executive Chairman and Director

Neither the TSX Venture Exchange nor its Regulation Services Provider (as that term is defined in the policies of the TSX Venture Exchange) accepts responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this release.

Forward-Looking Information

This news release contains certain forward-looking information and forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities legislation (collectively "forward-looking statements"). Certain information contained herein constitutes "forward-looking information" under Canadian securities legislation. Generally, forward-looking information can be identified by the use of forward-looking terminology such as "expects", "believes", "aims to", "plans to" or "intends to" or variations of such words and phrases or statements that certain actions, events or results "will" occur. Forward-looking statements are based on the opinions and estimates of management as of the date such statements are made and they are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that may cause the actual results, level of activity, performance or achievements of the Company to be materially different from those expressed by such forward-looking statements or forward-looking information, including the business of the Company, the speculative nature of mineral exploration and development, fluctuating commodity prices, competitive risks, and delay, inability to complete a financing or failure to receive regulatory approvals. Although management of the Company has attempted to identify important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in forward-looking statements or forward-looking information, there may be other factors that cause results not to be as anticipated, estimated or intended. There can be no assurance that such statements will prove to be accurate, as actual results and future events could differ materially from those anticipated in such statements. Accordingly, readers should not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements and forward-looking information. The Company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements or forward-looking information that are incorporated by reference herein, except as required by applicable securities laws.

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SOURCE Victory Metals Inc

Source: PR Newswire (February 12, 2019 - 9:30 AM EST)