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Home » Business, Health & Medicine, Marketing & Sales, Technology » Neutun Introduces New Way to Track and Manage Seizure Disorders
Neutun is an innovative product that allows those who live with seizure disorders to track and manage their conditions through wearable technology.

Neutun is a new type of software that works in conjunction with a smartwatch or wearable tracking tool in order to help epileptics and others living with seizure disorders to track and manage their symptoms more effectively.  As seen at http://www.neutun.com, Neutun is device agnostic, non-invasive and pairs with a number of wearables so that those with epilepsy and seizure disorders can track their symptoms, thereby gaining a tool for managing seizures and improve their health.

“Neutun is not a way to diagnose epilepsy,” notes creator Eric Dolan.  “Instead, it is a way for those living with seizures to take control and hopefully manage this aspect of their lives so that they can feel more confident.”  Brother Alex Dolan, co-creator, adds, “Our family has had experience with significant health issues, and we wanted to bring others a way to handle at least one ongoing aspect of epilepsy.”

The brothers experienced several health setbacks more than a decade ago when their family had to deal with epilepsy, flesh-eating bacterial disease and open-back surgery in a single year. “What pained us more than these events was the lack of day-to-day tracking and monitoring that could have prevented them,” says Alex Dolan.  Eric Dolan notes, “Most solutions didn’t do what they had promised, or were clunky or poorly designed. After spending years building software, studying data science and health informatics, we built Neutun to help those who are living with epilepsy.  Our goal is for no one to have to go through what we did in 2002.”

Neutun tracks and journals epileptic events, even when the user is unable to do so.  It also notifies loved ones of incidents and alerts first responders with the data provided by the smartwatch or wearable device.  Currently, Neutun is compatible with Pebble, but an Apple version will be released soon.

For more information, see the product’s website.

About Neutun:

Neutun is software that is compatible with wearable devices to track epileptic symptoms and seizures and notify others in an emergency.  The software was created by Eric and Alex Nolan, brothers who have dealt with epilepsy in their own family.

Media Contact
Company Name: Neutun Labs Inc.
Contact Person: Eric Dolan
Email: eric@neutun.com
Phone: 6476326160
City: Philadelphia
State: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Website: www.neutun.com

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Alan Pardew's men lost their second consecutive league game after falling to first-half goals from Bjarni Gudjonnson and Andy Cooke.

It could have been far worse for the shambolic Royals had it not been for the heroics of goalkeeper Phil Whitehead, who pulled off four excellent saves.

And Williams conceded: "I'd like to apologise to the fans really. There's that cliche ‘Southern Softies' and I thought maybe it was quite fitting for the way we played.

"Stoke looked a decent team. They were a yard quicker than us and looked like they wanted to win more. That's one thing in recent years you've not been able to say about Reading as normally we give 110 per cent.

"But it wasn't like that and now we've got to put things right on the training pitch."

Pardew was left fuming with his side and warned: "That performance was unacceptable to me.

"I look at last Saturday when we lost to Cardiff and I look at today and my players feel very despondent in the dressing room.

"They have let themselves down, they've let the club down, and they've let me and my staff down."

"No matter what your shape is and no matter how good your players are, if the other team are winning all the battles then you're going to lose the game and that's what happened.

"We had too many players who weren't on it."

Reading will be looking to stop the rot tomorrow night when they entertain Cambridge United, who beat Royals' conquerers Cardiff 2-1 on Saturday.

"That is a massive game now," said. "Cambridge had a great result at the weekend.

"We really need to be up for that one because they will be gunning for us."

M Alan Pardew has declared there is no truth in the rumours he is after Wimbledon's out-of-favour winger Michael Hughes.

M SHAKA HISLOP is desperate to contact the young Royals fan who was hit in the face by one of his clearances during Reading's Worthington Cup win over West Ham.

The former Royals keeper would like to apologise and has a present for the youngster.

If you know who the young boy is ring the Madejski Stadium manager Ray Booth on 0118 9681100.

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London Irish have already lined up a replacement for highly rated flanker Jamie Gibson, who is set to join Leicester Tigers at the end of the season.

The club are expected to announce at least two new signings in the next couple of weeks.

And I understand advanced negotiations with a back-row forward have taken place.

Gibson is reported to be linking up with former London Irish team-mates Dan Bowden, Adam Thompstone and Richard Thorpe at Welford Road.

Leicester as a rule wait until the end of the season to announce any new signings.

But, according to the Leicester Mercury , Tigers have agreed a deal with Gibson, who played in the midweek team on England’s tour of South Africa last summer.

The 22-year-old back-row forward was initially left out of Irish’s 23-man squad for last Saturday’s Aviva Premiership match against Northampton Saints.

But he was added as a late replacement, after Sailosi Tagicakibau pulled a hamstring in the pre-match warm-up at Franklin’s Gardens, and came on 12 minutes from the end of Exiles’ 40-14 defeat.

With five games of the season left, Exiles are only five points off the bottom-of-the-table relegation spot.

And director of rugby Brian Smith insisted recently that he would be basing his team selection on players' commitment, saying: “The heart and soul of the club has to be built on strong characters and the people who want to be here.”

Bryn Evans, Tom Homer, Jebb Sinclair, Kieran Low, Guy Armitage, Pat Phibbs and Tom Smallbone have all signed new contracts this season.

But Irish face another major rebuilding exercise in the summer with the as-yet-unconfirmed departures of Matt Garvey and Jonathan Joseph to Bath and Anthony Watson to Leicester Tigers.

Exiles have already seen Alex Corbisiero snapped up by Northampton Saints, while Steve Shingler has confirmed he will be returning to Scarlets and Jack Moates will be joining London Wasps.

The futures of Max Lahiff and Alex Gray, both out of contract in the summer, remain unclear.

But Smith is confident that he can strengthen the squad significantly in the summer with the new recruits he has lined up and I understand that there are several deals that are as good as done.

Worcester Warriors' in-form No. 8 Blair Cowan is reported to have signed for Irish.

The New Zealander's perceived lack of bulk is one of the reasons why he is being allowed to leave Sixways as head coach Richard Hill looks to beef up his back-row options for next season, claims the Worcester News .

There are no Premiership games for the next two weekends, while the LV= Cup is concluded, so Irish have plenty of time during the break to prepare for two crucial back-to-back home games.

Exiles continue their fight to avoid the drop when they face Worcester Warriors, in the St Patrick’s Party Day fixture on March 23, before a crunch showdown with basement club Sale Sharks on March 31.

Smith, though, insists that after last Saturday’s mauling at Northampton he and his team would prefer not to wait three weeks before being in action again.

“We want to get out there and have a go,” he said.

“We are disappointed because we rallied well late in the game.

“But we were still struggling to get the ball over the line, either because we were held up or because of a forward pass. It wasn’t our afternoon.”

He continued: “We have to suck it up now for the next two weeks. We will give the boys a couple of days off and then we’ll be right back into it.

“You are always smarting after a defeat, and especially so after a defeat like that.”


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Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2

A Gibberlings Three Mod
Author: Domi
On the web: Project page and discussion forum

Version 15 - Check for the most recent version
Languages: English
Platforms: Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux

This is a WeiDU mod which adds a joinable NPC from BG1, Kivan, and under certain circumstances, his elven wife, Deheriana, to the cast of BG2 actors.

This mod is designed to work with the original Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, with or without the Throne of Bhaal expansion pack, or Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition. The mod should be compatible with other WeiDU mods.

Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 is packaged and installed with WeiDU and is distributed as a self-extracting archive. To install, simply double-click the archive and follow the instructions on screen.

Alternatively the files can be extracted from the archive using WinRAR. If properly extracted, you should have a kivan folder and setup-kivan.exe in your game folder. To install, simply double-click setup-kivan.exe and follow the instructions on screen

Please run setup-kivan.exe in your game folder to reinstall, uninstall or otherwise change components.

Mac OS X
If the mod was previously installed, uninstall it before extracting the new version. Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 is packaged and installed with WeiDU. To install, simply extract the contents of the mod into your game folder. If properly extracted, you should have a kivan folder, setup-kivan, and setup-kivan.command in your game folder. To install, simply double-click setup-kivan.command and follow the instructions on screen.

Download the latest version of WeiDU for Linux from and extract (at least) the WeiDU, weinstall and tolower executables in a $PATH directory (E.G. /usr/bin). Following that, open a terminal, cd to your game installation directory, run `tolower' and answer Y to both queries.

You can avoid running the second option (linux.ini) if you've already ran it once in the same directory. To save time, the archive is already tolowered, so there's no need to run the first option (lowercasing file names) either if you've extracted only this mod since the last time you lower cased file name. If you're unsure, running tolower and choosing both options is the safe bet.

This mod contains audio that requires oggdec on Linux. oggdec is typically installed in most distributions and, if not, is usually part of the vorbis-tools package.

After that, run 'weinstall kivan from your game installation directory to install or uninstall the mod.

Please note that versions prior to v15 will have to be completely uninstalled prior to installing v15 or later.

Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2
This is the main component of the mod; see the next section for more information. Content for the Throne of Bhaal part of the game will be installed automatically for games with the ToB expansion installed.

Alternative Deheriana Class
Deheriana is, by default, a Fighter/Mage/Cleric. This component will allow you to change her class to a Wild Mage, Enchanter, or Invoker. If you wish to keep her as a F/M/C, then simply skip this component.

Herd's Alternative Kivan Portrait
This component will provide an alternate portrait for Kivan. Shown below is the defaut portrait on the left and Herd's alternate on the right.

This is a WeiDU mod which adds a joinable NPC from BG, Kivan, and under certain circumstances, his elven wife, Deheriana, to the cast of BG2 actors.

The mod assumes that Kivan was in the group at the end of BG. The Archer will be looking for you in the Promenade District of Athkatla, having tracked you down this far from Baldur's Gate after you abduction. Once in the party, Kivan will interact with both the PC and the NPCs. If the PC is female, choosing certain dialogue options will hint at her interest in Kivan as a romanceable character. In this case, Deheriana's arc of the story would not occur, and a few flirtatious talks will appear after visiting Spellhold.

If the PC is male or not interested in capturing Kivan's heart, Deheriana's story arc will develop in the end of the game. To see the story in full, please do not miss the talks with Aphril, Demin and Ellesime (in the end of the game). A happy ending for Deheriana's story will occur if Aerie or Cernd are in the party, or if the PC is one of the healing classes (Ranger, Druid, Cleric or Paladin)

Kivan and Deheriana NPCs have both SoA and ToB content, such as dialogues with the PC and the NPCs, interjections into the game events, additional encounters, and Player-Initiated Dialogues.

Deheriana is a “hidden” NPC in this mod. Basically she can be summoned in Suldanessellar, while talking to Demin. Depending on the options you selected on install, Deheriana will be a Cleric-Mage-Fighter, an Enchanter, a Diviner or a Wild Mage. Her content will not be affected by her class selection.

Deheriana is intended as a ToB NPC, with only a short story-arc occurring in SoA. At present, Cernd, Aerie and Kivan will “bombard” Deheriana with chats when she joins the party, and she will talk once to the PC during a 30 minutes interval upon her joining. The outcome of those talks will decide her fate.

She will either die in 30 minutes or during the congratulatory speech from Ellesime (whichever comes first), or she will be “restored”, an event which manifests itself in the increase of some of her stats and an XP bonus that adjusts to the party level to make Deheriana roughly equal in XP to the PC

Deheriana Initial Stats "Restored" Stats
Strength 9 9
Dexterity 12 15
Constitution 9 14
Intelligence 15 17
Wisdom 17 17
Charisma 14 14

After this transformation, both Kivan and Deheriana will follow the PC to ToB and function as ToB NPCs, bantering and interjecting throughout the game.

Kivan’s Romance Guide

‘A thought spoken out loud is a lie.’

It was not easy to write. The parchment tried to roll up all the time. Her knees were way too pointy to write on. The inkwell did not stand straight on the ground. The buzzing mosquitoes targeted her eyes, and nose, and ears. The light of the fire was dying down.

These are excuses.

What mattered, what prevented her from writing, was the lack of words.

And so I did write this romance for Baldur’s Gate, against, I must say, the better judgment. This walk-through is intended to give you a few tips and all the information I can think of to make the playing experience with Kivan’s Romance less frustrating. The romance is hard to maintain, and what seems logical to me could be out of the left field to you. It’s normal. We all have a different vision, and contradicting a player’s individual vision is a risk one takes when he or she starts to develop custom content for the existing characters. First and foremost, this mod is a work of fan-fiction. It is my version of the events, and if you think differently, this by no means supersedes your opinion. Nevertheless, understandably, I have heavily invested my own ideas and understanding of the character in this romance.

Character Profile

Kivan is an Elven Archer, with these statistics:

Kivan Initial Stats
Strength 18/12
Dexterity 17
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8
In the original Baldur's Gate game, he can be found in the forest surrounding High Hedge, a tower of a reclusive mage. He joins the protagonist to hunt the bandits harassing the Sword Coast, since their leader, Tazok, killed his wife, Deheriana. As the conspiracy of BG is unveiled, it becomes clear that Sarevok, Charname’s own mortal enemy, is Tazok's employer. In the end, Charname and his party destroy both.

After the events of BG, Kivan departed for his native elven forest, Shilmista, but hearing that Charname is missing, he tried to track his friend and ally down. That’s how he ends up in the Promenade in Athkatla, relieved and excited to see Charname relatively unharmed.

Kivan is a tired, suffering man, who is held to the Prime Material Plane first by his desire to avenge Deheriana - his love, and then by the loyalty he feels toward Charname. Both his deep and true love for Deheriana and friendship with Charname are corner stones of the character development, and can be neither ignored, nor taken out. It was my intent to show a man who is ready to be your friend till the end of his time if necessary, but who loves another woman and hopes to be reunited with her as soon as his day job is done. He is an older person, but his views are not rigid - he is to a degree affected by the chaotic streak in his nature and the primeval yearning for justice. He is a man who makes mistakes and will, if not checked, follow his desires to the wrong choices in difficult situations. His advice during the game won’t be always right either. He will sometimes change his mind, or apologize if he spoke in favor of something that turned out badly.

In vein with the above, do not expect a perfect romance, where the boy meets fair Charname and falls for her on the spot, courts her and does not ever want to part, ever and forever, and fights every man who looks her way to the death.

It’s a romance built on both tragedy and friendship, which, if not pursued with determination and almost despair, will be a friendship.

For Kivan to even think of another woman, Deheriana has to be utterly destroyed. Among the elves of Faerun, death is not the same thing as what we know of. Death for an elf is a departure to the world of Arvanaith, where an elf gets all of his wishes fulfilled and lives happily ever after. However, if death was too violent and occurred too far from the elven lands, the elf is destroyed completely. That’s what will happen to Deheriana, but Kivan would not know that unless he was told by an authority he’d believe. I use the seer, Aphril, in Spellhold to break the news. Hence, it is paramount to let Kivan talk to her if you’d like to romance him.

Deheriana’s death is not enough, though.

I wrote the romance for a Charname who knows very well that she loves Kivan, and who will be a strong enough person to acknowledge this unreturned love. To acknowledge and to throw it on the scale when needed. Yes, the romance is from the ‘therapeutical’ family, but it is not a one way street. You will see Kivan worry and fuss over Charname’s trials as much as Charname fusses over his. That’s what friends do.

Romance Conditions

You need to be a female, with reputation above 11, and Deheriana must die (see the discussion on P#KivanLove below). I initially had racial restrictions, but if there is a romance least preoccupied with how Charname looks, as compared to what is in her heart, that’s Kivan’s. As a result, I couldn’t see how I could deny having feelings for Kivan to a dwarven or a half-orc woman.

Romantic Phases

There are three easily distinguished phases in Kivan’s romance: SoA prior to talking to Aphril, SoA after talking to Aphril and ToB.

SoA prior to talking to Aphril is the stage where you define your relationship with Kivan. You can remain friends, and experience the mod that way - he has plenty of friendship content, and you can even resurrect Deheriana. If you do want to kindle the flames, so to speak, you do need to take it further.

is an index that tracks if Kivan is aware of your affection. This variable needs to be above 2 for Deheriana to die and open the romantic path, and above 9 for the relation to be strong enough to prevent Kivan’s departure in the end of SoA and for the romance to be carried over into ToB.

It is relatively easy to accumulate the P#KivanLove: try to select the ultimate caring responses, or responses that describe Charname’s feelings as romantic. Not having other romantic interests (or breaking up the relationships before they become committed) is also important.

SoA after talking to Aphril is the stage in which a fragile and tender relationship forms. It culminates with the Tree of Life talk (which becomes an important emotional point) and Kivan’s short dialogue in the Nine Hells.

The ToB part is all about Kivan establishing himself as Charname’s lover, and - if desired - the love of her life.

Other Romances

As noted above, Kivan in SoA is sensitive to other romances being run by the Player. If another romance is interrupted before it became committed, this will not influence Kivan’s Romance adversely. Please note that there is cumulative effect to having a few non-committed romances to run in parallel with Kivan’s. The important variables checks are when talking to Aphril and at the Tree of Life.

Allowing any other romance to become committed will most probably preclude Kivan’s.

Thanks and Acknowledgements

First, a big thanks to the wonderful community at The Gibberlings Three. Thanks to the still active and vibrant Infinity Engine modding community. Thank you icelus, TheWizard and Michel/Shodan for mirroring the G3 mods.

Thanks to the folks at G3 who contributed ideas for the various components. Personal thanks to Bren, Meira and Mystress Elysa for suggestions, comments, critique and general poking to get this project started.

Thanks to Celissa, Insolent Worm, Catseye, Kulyok, RavenBlack, Zanari, Princeps, BigRob, ycvflute, Ilmater, Disari, Meira, Bookwyrme, Tameon the Dragoon, Bons, Icelus, Noctalys, Winterine, and Sillara of Tamari for proof-reading; to Bren, Catseyes and Dove for taking their chances with the very early alpha releases and reporting glitches and for being patient with the squirrels.…  To Idobek for help with scripting and coding the soundpack.

Special thanks to Ana Christina for sustained, positive, and immensely helpful proofreading of translations files and documents.

Additional texts were contributed to this mod by Hendryk (Korgan), NiGHTMARE (banters with NPCs),  Mystress Elysa (squirrel dialogue).

Deheriana's Voice: Threadspinner and Krista Edlen (Koshiba)
Malenti's Voice: Tamu Ali

Musical Themes used in the mod come from Planescape Torment and “Karelia” by “Amorphis”.

Neiros' Portrait: Ilmatar
Alternative Kivan's Portrait: Herd and Rabain

The following Resources were used to produce this mod:

Elvish Language used in the mod is a convention developed by the Grey Company fan group for Role-playing purposes. Further information and credits can be found at Information on hair-braiding comes from Mary Bertke’s excellent website,

Tools Used in Creation
IESDP maintained by igi and Avenger
Near Infinity by Jon Olav Hauglid, FredSRichardson and devSin
WeiDU by Wes Weimer, the bigg, and Wisp

Contact and Copyright Information

This mod was authored by Dominique Sotto . Please contact her on the Gibberlings Three forums for more information on her current projects.

Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 ( Kivan of Shilmista ) is not developed, supported, or endorsed by BioWare™ or Interplay/BlackIsle. This mod was created to be freely enjoyed by all Baldur's Gate II players. However, it should not be sold, published, compiled or redistributed in any form without the consent of the author. Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 and Kivan of Shilmista © 2001 - 2014, Dominique Sotto.

Version History

Version 15 (CamDawg) - October 9, 2014

Version 14 (Kaeloree)

Version 13

Version 12

Version 11

Version 10

Version 9

Version 8.1

Version 8

Version 7

Version 6

Version 5 (BETA)

Version 4 (BETA)

Version 3 (BETA)

Version 2 (BETA)

Version 1 (BETA)


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Guy is ghosting me?

So i've dated this guy pretty seriously for about two months, shared a lot of our life experiences and I thought i got to a point where he trusted me. Then i got sick and had to move to my parents house for the next two months (one hour drive away). He texted me every single day asking how I was and we always made playful jokes, until mid September he stopped texting at all. I started to iniciate conversations but he wouldn't show the same interest in keeping it up, so we've not had any form of communication for two weeks. Last week i was finally able to move back to my apartment and texted him about getting coffee and giving him his birthday present (on the eve of his birthday) he said he'd be too busy and we should schedule for next week. So last week we agreed to meet on Wednesday and on that day he texted me about having a mass for his departed godfather (the dates matched the facts there) and said we should meet this Sunday (today) or Monday. I asked: what about Thursday and he said it was impossible, but late afternoon Friday we could meet. On Friday i texted him again asking a time and place, and again he said we should meet Sunday because it would be more convenient. So... All this postponing is driving me insane, not sure if i can handle it for much longer but i really wanted to give him the bloody gift that i handmade, dont want the thing lying around to keep reminding me of him. I have a really strong feeling he is going to cancel again today, the thing is i really liked him until he started ignoring me. He's been two years without a girlfriend after dating her for two and a half years only to discover she lied to him about lots of facts in her life, thats why they broke up. I can't stop thinking that maybe he thinks i lied about being really sick even though i sent him several photos at the hospital... Adding the fact that he really doesn't know me just after two months of dating, but i want it to continue... I dont know what to do if he cancels today..

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No guys shared opinions.

What Girls Said 1

  • So did he cancel or not? What happened?

    • we met in front of my building, he kissed me on the cheek, we went to an ice cream shop nearby. I tried my best to keep the conversation light and never even once tried to bring up the 'why did you disappear on me?' subject. He didn't pay for my ice cream, we sat and talked about lots of things like we used to do before. He told me he is going to London next month and i had to fight my urge to ask: 'with who?'. I gave him the drawing i made him and I could see that he really liked it, he was analysing it and talking about it for a good 15 minutes and then he said 'i dont really need to know how you did it, i just need to feel when i look at it'. Been talking for about one hour and a half and then he left to go and keep company to his godmother (now a widow). Kissed me on the cheek again and he was gone.
      I'm not going to reach out to him anymore, I think.. He knows how I feel about him, so I'll just wait and see with the least amount of expectations i can have... I got really tired of chasing him during the last week. I think if he is interested he should be the one to reach out now

    • Umm based on the things you said, it seems to me that he is interested in you.

    • I want to think so too but he doesn't text me at all now, and he used to, everyday... Maybe he was just being nice now... I don't know... I have a feeling he will not reach out to me at all, ever again...


text:
Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns

asymmetric returnsI’ve been relistening to Nassim Taleb’s wonderful book Fooled by Randomness, which is a probabalist’s dream read. And if there’s one thing that picking up girls turns you into, it’s a probabalist.

Reading it (or listening to it on audio, as I am), you see a great many parallels between stock trading and seduction. And you also come to understand why some men succeed at picking up lots of different pretty girls, and why most men never will.

In many things in life, but especially in trading and in pickup, there is what you’d call an asymmetric distribution of returns. And that means that by participating in trading for stocks or picking up girls or anything else with an asymmetric distribution, you’re opening yourself up to asymmetric returns.

But the mind does not take well naturally to asymmetric returns. It doesn’t grasp them. It isn’t built to work that way.

And the result of this is, an endless abundance of great returns for those few souls willing to go against the grain, fight the emotions that go with it, and chase down their asymmetric returns in spite of their struggling and fearful or frustrated brains... and an endless source of frustration and disappointment for the majority of souls who just go with the flow.

asymmetric returns

To introduce the concept of asymmetric returns, Taleb gives the hypothetical example of a billionaire with a morbid sense of fun who offers $10 million per win to anyone who plays Russian roulette with his 6-shot pistol and survives.

That is, you’ll put the barrel to your head, pull the trigger, and 5 times out of 6, you’ll walk away with $10 million. 1 time out of 6, you’ll be carted away in a casket.

The upside here is tempting. If you win, you get a fair chunk of change.

On the other side, the downside knows no lower bounds. If you lose – if you’re unlucky and draw the barrel with the bullet – you’ll have made a very bad bet indeed.

Should you play, and if so, how many times should you play?

Stock trading is much like this – when the market is going up, which it generally is most of the time, you’ll be making small gains every day. But when the market goes down, it suddenly crashes by 20%, 30%, 40%, or more. What ends up happening is that you have a cyclical round of investment bankers who come in fresh out of graduate school, make a lot of money trading over a period of a few years, then crash, get wiped out of the market (due to leveraged positions, which allowed them to bet much more than they had), lose more money for their banks than they’d made in their entire tenure there, and wash out of i-banking.

Then, a new crop of i-bankers comes in, makes big bets on the market going up, rakes in loads of cash, until it too one day has a sudden crash where it loses more money than it made for its banks, and another batch of i-bankers washes out of the market and moves on to selling luxury cars to the latest generation of new investment bankers, presently awash with cash.

Asymmetric returns: lots of little favorable returns over time, and comparatively rarer, but far more massive, unfavorable ones.

Making Money Off of Asymmetry

What Taleb does, and how he makes money, is by doing the reverse of most investment bankers. Instead of betting that the market will go up, he bets that the market will go down.

Because the market usually goes up, this means that most of the time, his bets are wrong and he is losing money. But some of the time, the market crashes, and when this happens he makes far more than all his accumulated losses during the “good times.”

So why doesn’t everybody do this? Well, because of the way the brain handles loss.

You see, even with people trained to handle probability, the mind doesn’t properly weigh its wins and losses. A loss has a far greater penalty to our dispositions than a gain has benefits. I talked about the difference on your testosterone (and thus, motivation, assertiveness, confidence, and more) between winning and losing in the article on dominance and the winner effect; on average, 5 losses affect you a great deal more than 5 wins. As such, we as human beings are obsessed with “not losing”, at minimum to preserve our delicate hormonal balances.

Of course, if you’re playing to not lose, you’re not really playing to win now, are you?

Sure, people will tell you they’re playing to win. But the moment they start piling up losses in whatever they’re doing, the majority of individuals begin to panic, flail about, and start looking for the exit. How do they get out of losing territory, and back to winning? Usually by jumping onto the bandwagon and doing what everyone else is doing... which usually isn’t the best idea when your competition is, in fact, everyone else.

Further, as Taleb illustrates so well with his example of a conservative investor living next door to an investment banker on the upswing, it’s very hard to resist comparing oneself to others we know are probably following doomed strategies. One neighbor who played it safe in the markets and insulated himself from risk with a smaller house and only a few million in the bank felt pressure for years to be more like his grandiose next door neighbor, who always bet big and raked in lots of cash, eventually accumulating around 7 times the net worth of the conservative neighbor, along with many more expensive toys and a bigger, more ornate house. Until, that is, one day the extravagant neighbor crashed, lost everything, and in an instant, the conservative neighbor was far wealthier than his risk-taking neighbor.

The temptation in stock trading is to chase profit, because it feels emotionally good and appears to the brain to look like the “right path.” If you’re doing something that’s losing you money, for obvious reasons, most of the time, you’ll be out of money sooner or later. However, if you’re placing call and put options on stock to take advantage of outlier events – if you’re betting that at some point, any given stock may crash – that’s a different story, because you know what you’re doing... you’re just betting differently.

You don’t panic when the unexpected happens, like ordinary folk. That’s because your prospects are reversed; the expected for you is bad, while the unexpected for you is good.

Because the market goes up a little bit at a time most of the time, and drops a large amount on occasion, those working from leveraged positions betting it will go up see healthy gains while times are good, and get totally wiped out when the market crashes. Conversely, those working from leveraged positions betting it will go down see healthy losses while the market’s on the upswing, and get rained on with money when the market crashes.

The I-Bankers of the Dating World

95%+ of men out there play the dating game by betting they will win. They are so certain of their own inevitable victories that they plow colossal amounts of time and investment into a girl – one they’re hung up on and can’t stop thinking about – and gradually eke out small gain after small gain.

In their minds, they know they will get her. It’s destiny. They imagine the sex; the relationship; maybe the wedding and children. In fact, most women have a number of different men chasing after them at any given time, imagining all the same things, and all equally relatively certain that these women will recognize their special bond and these things will come to pass.

Until the market crashes of the dating game rear their ugly heads, that is.

That’s when the girl you’ve been “working on” for months and making gradual, steady progress – you thought – suddenly announces she has a boyfriend now, or that she really only likes you as “just friends.”

Suddenly – instantly – immediately – all that time and effort you’d plowed into inching your way toward success with this one girl is wiped out. The market’s crashed, and you’re back at zero, and you’ve got to go start all over again from nothing.

Sure, sometimes it works for a while – the guy gets a girlfriend, and all is good. But even then, because he isn’t living in an abundance mindset – which is all but impossible to have when you’re playing the dating game betting you will win on any specific girl – at some point, he begins to treat his girlfriend or wife as more and more precious to him. He places her on a pedestal. And the instant he does, his gradual gains in love, affection, and devotion from her over time begin to quickly sour, and before you know it, the relationship crashes.

She loses interest. Cheats on him. Breaks up with him, or divorces him.

asymmetric returns

And then he’s single all over again, back to zero, an emotional mess and wondering what happened.

Maybe he even becomes embittered about women and dating, and goes the way of the investment bankers who’ve washed out of trading and moved on to selling cars.

He probably hears about pickup at some point, but writes off learning to pick up girls; after all, he’d get so much rejection – it just doesn’t sound very pleasant.

Chasing after that one special girl of the moment seems like a far more promising investment of time, energy, money, and resources instead.

asymmetric returns

Probably one of the most jarring elements of the mentality taught on this site for most people is the underlying concept of, “You really have no total degree of control.” You can make yourself more likely to win with women by improving your fundamentals and learning game – indeed, these things make huge impacts in the returns you see – but you will never reach a point where you completely eliminate the probability of encountering outlier events – what Taleb calls “black swans” – in your dating and sex life.

Instead of running from this, the man who studies pickup embraces it. Like Taleb’s strategy with investing, the man who picks up women approaches women with an understanding of asymmetric distributions and returns: that is, when you’re picking up women, you’re going to encounter a lot of little losses, and the occasional BIG win.

Little and Lots

Anyone who’s learned to meet women on the street, in coffee shops, riding the train, at happy hour, at parties, in nightclubs, at networking events, on the beach, in shopping malls, or anywhere else out and about live in person can tell you how dramatically his life has changed and improved since learning how to do this.

So why do so few men do this?

This website gets 700K+ people visiting it a month. It’s not like the information isn’t out there. Yet, walk down a busy street in any town, every day for a month, and you may well never see a man walk up to a pretty girl and open her. You’ll be the only one doing it.

From a pure “benefits to his life” perspective, you’d think that most men would think, after enough failed relationships and go-nowhere fixations on girls, that it’s time they tried a different strategy – instead of focusing on one girl with only middling levels of commitment to them, how about they cast a wider net and see what they can pull in with it?

But they don’t.

The reason why is because picking up girls doesn’t feel like winning to most men, at least not starting out. It feels like losing. You go up and get rejection after rejection, trying to figure out this seduction thing and consistently coming up short.

Meanwhile, the guy who’s fixated on that one special girl, he’s getting a constant stream of “wins”: she texted him back; she told him he was cute; she agreed to go to a party with him. He’s winning!

Then the guy practicing pickup sleeps with some new girl he just met off the street.

Meanwhile, the guy fixated on the girl finds out she only sees him as a friend, and has another guy she’s sleeping with whom she respects far more as a man.

The guy practicing pickup gets a slight victory boost from his success, and then it’s back into the meat grinder of rejection after rejection.

The guy who spends his time chasing after women feels heartbroken for a while after putting so much effort into one girl and having it all fall apart... and then he meets another girl, and starts chasing after her, and begins to experience one “win” after another again, as he gradually makes “progress” on her.

That’s why most men never learn pickup. It isn’t because they can’t do it. It isn’t because they lack the faculties, the abilities, or some special x-factor.

Instead, it’s because chasing women just feels more rewarding, most of the time, than amassing rejections in the process of finding new women to sleep with and have relationships with.

Even though the type and magnitude of their black swan events – the guy chasing who loses the girl after so many small “gains”, and the guy picking up who sleeps with a girl after so many small “losses” – is so starkly different.

Capitalizing on Asymmetric Returns

Learning seduction is about learning to ignore the emotions that are the base of things like approach anxiety and hesitation / indecisiveness, and embrace asymmetric returns.

You see, your emotional brain would much rather you take the “safe” path – you know, not pushing too hard or moving too fast with that cute girl who likes you... just play it safe, so you don’t risk losing her. And don’t go amassing all those rejections, because what’s the point?

Just like the trader’s emotional brain would much rather he take the “safe” path – you know, not going against the grain, racking up one losing day after another, and betting that the market will crash when in fact it just keeps going up.

Of course, we know that logically, these are NOT the safe paths at all – the highly leveraged trader gets wiped out by a single black swan event, and the highly leveraged suitor gets wiped out by a single black swan event too – as detailed in the story of Pete, Jerry, and Sue.

The seducer is playing the game the same way the investor who bets on market crashes plays it – he’s playing to win by betting on losing in small amounts, most of the time, and counting on winning in large amounts, occasionally.

asymmetric returns

Your average man picks a girl, fixates on her, and dumps every ounce of energy he has into trying to woo her, convinced that this is his surest path to success.

Meanwhile, the seducer recognizes that there’s far too much outside of his control with any one girl:

  • There are other men in her life he doesn’t and can’t know about

  • Girls who only want attention flirt to get it, leading gullible men astray thinking they’re closing in on women who want them sexually/romantically when this is not the case

  • The smallest missed escalation window – which even he as an experienced seducer might not have picked up on for any reason – can lead to attraction expiring and all future effort put into a girl being a waste of time

  • Life can otherwise intervene at any time and destroy a promising-looking romance

... and that’s just with girls he already has “a shot” with. There are plenty more he has yet to meet who will turn him down flat because they just aren’t interested and don’t find him even a little appealing.

Yet, the seducer trains himself not to mind these small losses. Any time an individual girl rejects him on approach, or declines to give him her phone number when he asks, or flakes on a date, or doesn’t text him back, or refuses to sleep with him, or anything else, that doesn’t matter, because he’s already accepted that he’s going to spend most of the time having one small loss after another.

He endures these losses to get the big wins... the likes of which can become quite common for him, even as they are few and far between, and of much lesser magnitude, for the ordinary man.

Those are big wins ranging everywhere from a dream relationship with the girl of his dreams, to hot, impromptu sex in public places with some looker he’s just met. These things are more or less out of the reach of ordinary men, who settle into relationships they do their darnedest to convince themselves are with the “girls of their dreams” but really aren’t, and can only look on with envy or spite at those men pulling things off sexually with women that they cannot and never will.

That’s because the man who knows pickup lives his dating life accepting the asymmetric returns of the dating world – most of the time he will be rejected, flaked on, and otherwise unsuccessful with the women he approaches; however, some of the time he will land some really incredible girls, and have some really remarkable experiences.

Meanwhile, the ordinary man keeps himself safe, away from the small ongoing losses that are rejection, flaking, and girls not putting out, and instead devotes his time to a much smaller subset of women he spends his time fantasizing about and working hard to get, experiencing constant small “wins” whenever the girl he likes does something that makes him feel like he is “getting closer”, only to experience major losses when these girls up and vanish, or announce they’ve found a new boyfriend and are off the market.

The Mindset Difference

Focusing on the world of dating, sex, and relationships as one that presents a very asymmetric distribution of returns for everyone involved in it, and accepting that asymmetry, leads to a very large difference in mindset.

Thus, you see differences like this:

  • Ordinary man: “I can’t go talk to her – what if she rejects me?
  • Guy who picks up: “Who cares about that? You’ll never meet any women if you don’t go start piling up some rejections!”
  • Ordinary man: “I can’t make a move – what if she says no?
  • Guy who picks up: “Who cares about that? You’ll never make it out of neutral with any girl if you never make a move!”
  • Ordinary man: “I can’t try to sleep with her – what if she doesn’t want to?
  • Guy who picks up: “Who cares about that? You’re never going to find out if she DOES want to sleep with you if you don’t try to sleep with her!

The real core difference between the ordinary man and the guy who picks up is that the ordinary man sees this woman, right now as someone he needs immediate returns with, and had better not botch it with.

The man who picks up views things probabilistically, however. He knows that no matter what signs he’s reading, Girl X only has Y% chance of accepting him talking to her, making a move, or escalating to sex. But, he isn’t worried about the % chance of rejection – he knows he’s going to have to stomach some rejections to get to the successes. That’s just how it goes.

Similarly, the ordinary trader sees this trade, right now as a trade he needs to make money on, and had better not post a loss on today or this week.

The man who invests by betting the market will crash views things probabilistically, and knows that no matter how much data he reads on the stock market, Stock X has Y% chance of going up or down – he knows he’s going to have to stomach some money-losing days to get to the successes. That’s just how it goes.

Why Pickup Probably Won’t Stop Working

Every now and again, you’ll run across guys on pickup forums talking about “the end of pickup.” What they’re afraid of is that other men are going to discover the world of picking up and seducing women, and that the more men adopt it and dabble in it, the less effective its methods will be, as the sexual arms race between men and women continues, and women become inured to the tools and techniques of seduction.

Yet, we’re at a point now where pretty much everyone in the West is at least familiar with the school of modern seduction. Ask any of your friends what he thinks of “those pickup artists”, and he’ll have an opinion – and probably not a very good one. Just as Nassim Taleb discusses ordinary traders’ disdain for and dismissal of his black swan ways, ordinary men often have great disdain for those men who know what they’re doing with women.

The fact is, most people can’t stomach taking one small loss after another to get a BIG gain. They’d much rather stick to one small win after another, and tell themselves that each small win is edging them closer to an even LARGER win down the road.

Then, when they hit a crash, they’ll just shake their heads and say, “I don’t know what happened. It doesn’t make sense.”

But of course, it DOES make sense – when you realize that you’re operating with asymmetric returns. You can take a bunch of little losses and get some big wins, or you can take a bunch of little wins and get some big losses.

Because most men’s minds can’t make peace with the fact that the big wins you get ultimately far outweigh all the tiny losses you receive, the world is your oyster if you’re one of the few who’s capable of realizing and internalizing the difference.

Studying and practicing seduction is probably always going to offer a strong competitive edge to those select few men who embrace it – simply because most men, emotionally, just can’t.

They must go on playing the losing game of lots of little wins and occasional big losses... and leave the door wide open for any man who knows what he’s doing.

In other words... you.

Assuming you’re able to suck up the losses and not lose sight of the big picture, that is.

Chase Amante

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Anonymous's picture

This article is great article! Definitely one of your better ones, with a lot of truth that takes guys who are used to viewing things through one specific perspective to a complete new one. Seeing things from outside the box, awesome awesome stuff.

"That’s why most men never learn pickup. It isn’t because they can’t do it. It isn’t because they lack the faculties, the abilities, or some special x-factor.

Instead, it’s because chasing women just feels more rewarding, most of the time, than amassing rejections in the process of finding new women to sleep with and have relationships with."

This hit home with me pretty damn well. I'm playing like a guy who is playing not to lose, rather than to win. Huge wakeup call to me that i have things wrong once again and shows just how much more I need to learn.

Thanks again for the article!

Anonymous's picture

Well put.

But to each, his own...

Sam2's picture

This is such a holistic, beautifully laid out piece of writing. It puts a very clear strategic choice at the hands of men who second-guess themselves, doubt, or lose heart in the face of adversity in their pick-up journey.

I would suggest you include it in the core reading section of this site.

Again, congratulations for writing such a masterpiece; truly inspiring!

Danny's picture

Dear Chase,

I just have a quick question on gals who are I-bankers. Are those girls wife material? Are they promiscuous or loyal in general? Are they party gals? What is your experience and opinions on them?

I was hitting on one today.....the basic thing I know about them is that they are mostly (in general) from Ivy League Schools....that's all I know about them at this point. Also, I read about you articles on "Strong Indep Girls Vs Submissive Soft Gals" so I bet I-banker girls are strong and indep.

Also, the I-banker girl I was hitting on today has a very confident attitude, it feels like she is always in control. For example, I used the Direct Opener you taught me and I only noticed a light smile/smirk.....whereas if I do the same thing on those Foriegn Born Inexperienced Korean girls who are STILL IN COLLEGE and they will immediately have buttiflies. You can even see them cover their faces with their hands because their face is red/hot etc and they will start to giggle. I think that's a sign of inexperienced and NOT IN CONTROL. <-- Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway, what's your experience on I-Bankers girls?

Chase Amante's picture

Assuming you mean the female analogue of the allegorical male investment bankers of the dating world from the article, correct? If that's what you meant, the "investment bankers of the dating world" are the ones who are overinvesting in one prospective (or one current) partner, in terms of hopes, dreams, expectations, other forms of investment, etc. These will tend to be the romantically and sexually inexperienced ones, not the experienced ones - and they will tend to be not in control, nervous, emotional, and the like.

If, however, you mean ACTUAL female investment bankers... I haven't met a whole lot of them (it's predominantly a male profession), but the few I have met have been, yes, extremely confident, self-assured, go-getter types. You have to be to succeed in a male-dominated profession, and especially one as high sexualized and aggressive and gung-ho as i-banking. Real-world female investment bankers I've known have been prone to flings and affairs with their highly-sexed colleagues and bosses, and usually tend to have nice guy mates that they can control with minimal distraction from their careers (and liaisons). Unless you like sharing, they're probably not great long-term material, though you probably will have a pretty great time with them!

Franco's picture

God damn, this is good. This should be added to the "must read" article list for newcomers to the website.

I've already forwarded this article to a few friends.

Thanks, Chase!

- Franco

Eric Reeves's picture

This has to be one of chase's top posts of all times.

x2shotty's picture

Hey Chase,

I hope things are going well with you, brother. All's kosher on my end...

I am starting to get really good with my communicating from all of the advice on this site. I am meeting girls in person and online (trying to do both because I feel like the online stuff helps with things like text messaging, etc. Also, sometimes I don't have time to get out and meet as many women as I'd like. So, at least I get a lot of dates, which leads to more practice on dates, and so on, you get the picture). My game is there and often times, in the beginning, I seem to get girls engaged- A LOT. I am starting to pick up on right times to answer with a wise ass response, or a silly jab to deflect girls questions, and tease them a bit. So, all goes swell, and we schedule a date, and we meet up. Often times, we connect, and I am sure that you have seen this- where girls get that twinkle in their eye and you know you are in- you know what I am talking about! ;-) So, things start to get playful and touchy-feely. Things escalate and we make out... I know I am a great kisser and all that. So, I know I am not turning girls off there.... So, without writing a novel, here is the problem lol...

We hit things off- things are magical, and I GET IT... When escalation windows hit, I should try to close fast. BUT, sometimes the situation is just not conducive to closing THAT night. But girls just fall off and become flakey after that first date. I am getting pretty good at analyzing myself objectively and being honest with myself. So, I can usually pinpoint where I f*ck up. Here, I am clueless... I am thinking that one of two things is happening, but I would love your advice on this one.

a) I am getting really good at throwing this sexy vibe and being smooth. To the point where girls who wouldn't generally speed things up so quick are actually expecting me to close. Since, I don't, they are like "whoa, I guess Mr. smooth isn't so smooth after all."

b) I should be playful and teasing, but maybe hold off on making out and stuff. Get really close and intimate, but pull away. In other words, be extra sexy, but don't let her have anything yet. In lieu of moving fast, I should play a bit hard to get since the situation does not allow me to close. This way, the chase dynamic is set up with her still chasing me.

Any thoughts or comments would be great... Also, where do you guys coach out of, and how do I find more information on that?

x2shotty's picture

I forgot to mention. This article is brilliant!

Anonymous's picture

this is a high-attraction problem. You don´t know it exists until you become sexy and seductive. The cause is - the escalation window opens wide, the woman wants you badly and at the same time, she has a slut complex. It means she avoids to be seen as a slut, I guess most women have this complex.
Such a woman expects you to lead the interaction to the point where "sex just happened", so she can feel like an innocent women seduced by you. Now, there are two possibilities, unfortunately with the same outcome.

1) You miss the escalation window completely. For her, you´re not the one she thought you were... or maybe you´re even rejecting her. So she goes into autorejection.
2) You catch the window, but cannot meet it. Your attitude is "I know you want me, sorry I cannot do it now, but we can meet next time". And she knows you know... I think this is your case. She doesn´t autoreject you outright and maybe will even agree with another date. However, she realizes that the possibility where "sex just happened" has been missed forever. In opposite, now she is expected to meet you for sex to happen. That makes her feel like a slut, her slut complex kicks in, you make her feel bad about herself and her best solution is to autoreject you.

You can only prevent this situation. If you don´t have logistics, you must set limits. For example tell her that you have only time for a coffee. Or you don´t escalate. However, you risk being friend-zoned. Once the "I want you now" escalation window opens and you cannot act upon it, I think it´s lost. And in my experience, sometimes the escalation window opens during normal conversation. It happens to me too and it´s a very painful situation, bro. The paradox is - if you weren´t so attractive, you would have a normal date, then meet again and have sex then.

x2shotty's picture

Thanks Anon- that at least makes me feel better lol

Chase Amante's picture

Anon hit it in his reply. If you want a more intuitive way of thinking about it, imagine watching a movie in the cinema, where things really start peaking emotionally, and you're 90% of the way through the film, the ending's already started happening, and then the lights come on and the film stops rolling and they announce that there's something wrong with the film and you're going to have to come back to see the ending another day.

So, a few days later, the cinema sends you a text and lets you know if you want to come back and watch the movie again, and with the full ending this time, you can. Do you?

Maybe if it was the best movie you've ever seen in your life, you might. Usually, you'll just have figured out what the ending was, and now you've got sort of a bad taste in your mouth because you know what the ending probably is, but you didn't get to have the emotional satisfaction of enjoying it once the film had primed you to receive it.

If you want to do things over the course of multiple dates, you cannot peak too early on those dates, otherwise you have this effect.

Instead, treat the dates like a 2-parter or a 3-parter in a movie series... there needs to be a cliffhanger at the end with her wondering what comes next. Maybe she THINKS she knows, but there's enough intrigue and mystery and uncertainty that she really just doesn't.

Read this article (or re-read it, with this problem in mind, if you've already read it) on this: "Emotional Cresting: What It Is and How to Use It."

You should not be making out with women until you are RIGHT about to sleep with them. Kissing is the commencement of sex. Cutting off the escalation once you've already started kissing is like killing the movie once the ending's begun. It just leaves a bad taste in her mouth. The exception is here: "How to Kiss Girls in Public and Have It Go Great."

Normally though, yes - don't kiss until you're alone with her and ready for sex; don't commence the "end of the movie" if you're going to kick her out of the theater midway through. If you can't close on a given date, be intriguing, and be sexy, but don't ratchet it up too far. Leave that for the date you'll close things out on.

Michael (from the boards)'s picture

Hey Chase

You should consider using an Amazon affiliate link for the book you recommended (Fooled by Randomness). It's an easy way for you to make money, and it's better for us because we just have to click on a link instead of doing a google search.

Chase Amante's picture

Thanks for the feedback - just placed an Amazon link around the book title, no affiliate.

We used to use Amazon and other affiliate links, but it just adds very little to the bottom line, and kind of cheapens the brand / objectivity of the message... I'm planning to have us go back and remove affiliate links while just leaving in the original links at some point.

But you're right - for people who want to buy, it's easier to just have the link. Link added.

Jake's picture

Absolutely loved this post, Chase. Very well-written, informative, and was a straight shot in terms of understanding asymmetrical returns in regards to women

Anonymous's picture

Hey chase,
Brilliant article, apart from your dating advice i would definitely acknowledge your creative and writing skills. Witty scribble buddy!!!
That stirs up another analogy in my mind for all those who cant stop thinking about that girl and feel dejected when a girl rejects them . Now instead of them being a market consider you as newly enrolled company at the stock market . You are a new small company so probably dont have much assets or market cap. (lets say your fitness or bodylanguage are your poor assets and your game your market cap ;)) .Considering this most of the people want buy you or your shares because they dont see the future. They only take what is obvious, they are going for the obvious victory company whose share are already maxed out. A guy with game ;)) Whereas there comes one customer who knows its sometimes really profitable to invest in these small firms because if the gamble pays off the rewards are usually huge. But this rarely happens . What you as a company do is keep working your ass off to get your fundamentals right to get your assets to increase and your skill with women improve. And one day you are big and you look back and laugh at all those customers who didnt invest in you and all they can do when you have complete abundance and you have dated a horde of hot girls is to fantasize you romping their brains out, because now they know you just cost a little too much for them ;)

Chase Amante's picture

Good analogy, for anyone remotely familiar with business-building. Same as girls - unless you've got the gift of gab or another strong suit starting out, pretty tough time raising funds, getting investors, and finding believers. But if you slog away at it, there comes a time when you look back and realize you're now a hot commodity, and all those people you were praying for "in"s with are small potatoes by comparison.

You always think when you're small that you'll look back spitefully on them once you're big, but when you get there, you're more just reflective, then shrug, then get back to enjoying the pleasures of being a success.

Anonymous's picture

I used to have this dilemma myself and I've found the answer. I'm assuming you're making out with them on the date and not back at your place. This is what I used to do too and got a lot of flakeyness next time I tried to set up date 2 because in their minds they know whats next and they really get time to over think it and usually get scared away.

Now I never kiss them while we're out, only play a dominant touching, leading game at the appropriate times and if I get good feedback from it I invite them over. Usually once they get back to my place they're so ready to go they start kissing me on their own and just escalate very gradually from there to bed. Hope this helps, peace.

x2shotty's picture

Hey Anon,

This is what I was figuring. However, what if it doesn't pan out that way and she just doesn't come home? do you still refrain from sending her off with a kiss? i don't know what to do if she won't come over.... it's killing me. I get these dates with amazing women, and then sh*t just falls off. I am wondering if I am doing something else wrong, too.

Chase Amante's picture

I might suggest hopping on the boards and writing field reports about your dates on the Field Reports Board.

Going back and analyzing every detail helps tremendously with nailing down what you're doing wrong, and you'll tend to get useful feedback from other guys too, pointing out things you didn't even realize you could do differently.

Topcat's picture

In agreeance with the others Chase, this has got to be one of the best articles on the site. It definitely shifted my mental model a huge deal.

I'm ever greatful for the work you do on here, this cannot be stressed enough.

Bassman's picture

This is GOLD!

Thanks again chase for taking the time and effort to write such great articles. Keeping all of use space monkeys inspired and motivated to become real men. Thank you for the advice back in my early days on your site as well. You have great things coming to you in the future with all this awesome work you are putting out!

Nuncle's picture

Chase, you are certainly a tonic for someone who, despite being an avid follower of this site's philosophy, has still managed to come down with a bad case of one-itis (and then spectacularly **** it up!)

Bob's picture

another incredible article. Well said.

Rolondo's picture

This article was opened my eyes to alot - best foundational article.

Yink's picture

Hi Chase,great article once again,however I do have a question for you:how can you know if a girl is a virgin without having to ask her?,I ask this question because my last relationship was with a virgin who I had to wait for a LONG time before having sex with and I want to avoid that kind of situation repeating itself.I'd rather spend my time on a girl who has already been disvirgined but has very few sex partners(1or 2) than invest months trying to convince a girl to disvirgin her.

Chase Amante's picture

Aside from checking for a hymen (and even that's not foolproof - some girls lose theirs playing sports, some girls never have them, and some girls retain a fair amount of theirs even after a few partners; in Asia, there's even a trend of getting hymen reconstruction surgery prior to marriage), there's not really a way other than asking a girl outright and doing your best to discern whether she's telling the truth or not.

If you want to weed out virgins though, just start talking about sex and sexual experiences. If she gets really uncomfortable, and can't share any of her own, chances are she's not what you're looking for in terms of a sex partner.

Wout's picture

Hi Chase,

Do you have any articles about the fact of being too aggressive and how can you act the best in an aggressive environment?

Last night I got a 90-95% rejection rate (with some pretty harsh rejections too) which I believe came from the fact that I was too aggressive (which a friend told me), came over as trying too hard (reading an article about that right now) and because of the environment which was also pretty aggressive (everyone was pushing each other in the over-packed dance floor, girls having huge walls, everyone felt superior than each other, etc).

Chase Amante's picture

The only real problem with being overly aggressive is when you're so aggressive that you start seeming unattainable (in terms of a girl being able to attain your respect... not necessarily in terms of her being able to attain you as, say, a sex partner). I do need to get one up specifically on being overly aggressive itself, and how to tackle it; the best articles to review on that one for now are the ones on auto-rejection and teasing (which talks quite a bit about not pushing girls too far - a way of getting over-aggressive with teasing). I might also recommend the one on humbleness.

Being overly aggressive is usually not a bad problem to have, because it's easier to scale back from being too aggressive than it is to ramp up to being more aggressive if you're not currently aggressive enough. The easiest way to scale back is to keep doing what you're doing, but try being a little bit "softer" or "sweeter" while you do it - a bit warmer of a smile, a bit more welcoming in your motions, a bit more romantic and lustful in your eye contact. If that's still not enough, then try adding a few smaller steps into your interactions, like starting out asking for smaller bits of compliance than you usually ask for to throw a few more steps onto your compliance ladder, so you're not asking for too much too soon.

Anonymous's picture

I want to say that I used to hate rejection and now I can say that I hate losing ALL the time especially, if the price if it is a BIG win. I am one of those guys that just isn't smooth or like doesn't light it up for women. The only way I do it is to stand up straight and keep my mouth shut and pray for luck. I understand totally losing small to win BIG. I figured it out when I went to Barcelona, I went to salsa place and I got rejected more then any guy in the room for nights after nights. Funny thing I am not a dick head asshole or a complete imbecile, in fact am polite and complimentary, not ass kisser either but I get awkward pretty easily and I am shy. I understood in Spain the idea that it is ok to get rejected if you won a nice win every once in a while it is SOOOO worth it. But, that ended few times because in knows how many women that rejected me lets say there where like 3 that stood out and one REALLY STOOD OUT. The problem is that I got rejected by the 3 and the one that said yes it wasn't much before she went in with another guy. I can't tell how many times I have seen that when I put my eyes on a woman she will be in the arms of an other man sooner or later and this is why it become really hard to do something about it. You can't stand being a LOSER and Being UNDESIRED ALL THE TIME. Because, lets face it there is always someone a lot better. One other question that I would REALLY appreciate if you answer it. What if you are a guy who is not passionate or talented, I mean you are a guy with likes and hobbies and disciplines but not PASSIONATE. Can you still get your way with women.

Chase Amante's picture

I haven't traveled to Spain yet, but I consistently hear that it is one of the hardest places to meet women out there, period. I'd like to get there at some point just to see if everything I keep hearing it true.

First recommendation I'd have is study the other guys who are doing better with women than you and see what the differences are, focused primarily on their actions and nonverbals, as well as things like clothes, hairstyle, etc. What are they doing that you are not doing? What do they have with their appearance that you can emulate? Even if you feel silly doing so - try it out regardless.

Re: passion, this is something you can learn to emulate. I'm a pretty dispassionate person by nature, but I spent a long time focusing on having very piercing eye contact and a facial expression that made people feel instantly warm and familiar and emotionally aroused around me, and now I just have to look at a girl to have her getting nervous and excited. That's 100% learnable - mostly by imitating actors, politicians, friends, etc. who are already doing this - and it's easy to learn to convey passion once you can do that and once you've also become good at telling stories about your exploits (another skill that takes some time - though see this article).

Mainly, it seems like what you need right now is to start emulating men who are doing what you want to do and seeing the results you want to see.

Anonymous's picture

Still very hard. I actually have observed and paid attention to guys who are like what you say. I dress quite alright, the way I dress shouldn't be a barrier. I do lots of strength training and I always look in the mirror to check my eye contact, facial expressions and body language, the straight back, chest puffed out all while trying to remain relaxed. Still there is an X factor that just isn't there. I do dancing and I think I move fairly nice. My story telling and conversation skills are really dead. I mean I can talk to women but can't get them excited nor interested. Funny story even the very beautiful sexy women don't intimidate me this much it is just that I can't compete with the other guys that hit on them and they reject me nearly on site. I also look women in the eye and I don't stare, but what is the point of looking them in the eye if you are boring (Not interesting, if they don't look you back or just see you as a friend). Actually, when I look in the mirror I see something is missing but I have no idea how to fix it. Sorry for bothering. But, anyway even if you don't reply, I appreciate your site and that you give time to your readers. And you have some golden points anyway.

Anonymous's picture

Off topic but if you haven't been to Spain then you have too. The country is full of attractions. Barcelona is Gorgeous and full of beautiful architect. The South has lots of muslim-christian history and Franco might have added his touch in some cities. Flamengo dances, beautiful mountains and music and food. Bit conservative people and some pickpocketers but oh well. I also suggest that if you go there not to have a short trip. Stay atleast for a month and have a round trip if you can.

PS. I am not from Spain.

Colt Williams's picture

I have to echo the comments that everyone has been making. If there's one article that any guy -- newcomer to master -- should read, it's this one.

Chase has written a lot of incredible pieces, but I think this one is a cut above. To all the readers out there, in the words of Biggie, "relax and take notes."

Marty's picture

I'm not surprised to read so many positive comments above, including remarks from your leadership team like Franco and Reeves saying that this falls under the all-time top articles list.

What you expressed so forcefully and skilfully is all true... and I'd add, as you've mentioned elsewhere, that there are two additional benefits to regular cold approach besides the statistical argument:

1. You get credit just for trying... differentiating yourself from the competition;

2. You get better at it with more practice.

In my case, point #1 is illustrated by the fact that the 2nd-ever woman I cold-approached accepted an instant date proposal; point #2 by the reaction of the 158th and 159th women I approached who, despite being attached, received me with nothing short of utter delight.

340Breeze's picture

This is a cornerstone piece.

Glad to see the analogy made between the market and seduction... If one studies the process that led to the success of many innovative companies, we see that they embed "deliberate failure" into their business model and process. They know they will fail more often than they succeed. Playing to win is the paramount action that any winner must do. Playing not to lose is for those who don't want to dominate.

However, failure is inevitable and it is random and we cannot control it. People fear what they cannot control and maybe that's a reason why so many people play not to lose. But the thing is, as you have said over and over, the more often we act with intent/purpose (and fail) is the more often we will succeed. I read somewhere that Edison created thousands of prototypes, but only a few were ever true stars. This ties in to the phenomenon you wrote about "Events vs. Process" Most people only ever see/pay attention to/value the successes, but they don't see the hidden process that's in place to deal with the inevitable losses/failures. Alot of people think that success is effortless, but it's not at all. Failure is real.

Sochiro Honda said it best:

Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.

Paramount article.

Torus's picture

Hi Chase,
I can confirm that this shift in mindset is tremendously helpful. And it get easier with time: once you had a few big wins, you start to feel the greater picture, the small loses just become stepping stones.
This shift in mindset was so powerful, that I started to apply it towards my life mission: often scary, but it has already send me down unusual but rewarding paths. :)

Anyway, in case you did not know:
This thinking mistake is the cognitive biases described in "prospect theory" with quite some research behind it.
It describes that humans value 2 gains of X higher than 1 gain of 2X. And 2 loses of X are worse than a loss of 2X.
Also a gain of X feels less good than a loss of X feels bad.

This explains so many bad decisions everywhere, you gave great examples.
But I want to add there is a good evolutionary reason why humans tend to think like that. In many situations this heuristic makes sense. That 2X does not feel 2 times as good as X. Just imagine you are hungry and see a pig running through the forest, you would probably value it highly and invest in the hunt. If on the other hand you just caught that pig and started eating it, you would not to feel a similar urge to pursue a similar second pig running by.

Anyway, I learned a lot about cognitive biases and are even teaching people how to avoid them, so tell me if you are interested to hear more.

Chase Amante's picture

Cognitive biases are a fascinating subject area, indeed. And you keep coming across more and varied examples of them.

I'm not sure I follow the pig example as one of the 2X vs. 1X + 1X bias. Wouldn't that be something more like catching two little pigs would be more satisfying than catching one really big pig with as much meat as those two little pigs combined, and failing to catch both of those two little pigs stings worse than missing out on just that one big pig?

Anyway, it's a neat topic, and also neat exploring why the brain retains the (often very large) biases it does.

Patrick Dugan's picture

I'm trading cryptocurrency full-time and am also a "technician level" student of the game, by your own site's questionnaire assessment. I just wanted to note that maybe a better metaphor would have been trading for opportunistic gains, not getting married to a position or a belief about the future, and accepting small losses to catch a market reversal - the Nassim Taleb strategy of buying deep-out premium and waiting has been somewhat discredited and his hedge fund has lost money for the past 5 years. Maybe 2014 is the year that he gets 2008-esque returns but I'd have shorter intervals between wins. The guys going long-only US equities are definitely akin to the chumps marrying away half their net worth and chasing bad prospects.

Chase Amante's picture

I'm not nearly enough of an expert on stock trading that I could say with any certainty that "this model is better than that model." I will say that Taleb's investment model is based on losing small amounts for long periods of time in anticipation of enjoying black swan events every once in a while - e.g., I believe he said his system is designed to be able to lose money for 10 years if necessary in order to enjoy a single black swan event. I'd expect he would lose money for long periods of time, yes - long periods of famine, and then the occasional superabundance of feast. But, perhaps there's some other flaw in his setup - I don't know how much he loses on his losses and how much he gains on his wins, and if he doesn't capture enough upside during market crashes and other outliers to make up for the accumulated losses he takes during normal times, the model will indeed not survive.

I'm not clear enough on what you mean by trading for opportunistic gains - whether you mean trying to time the market, like a day trader does (most of whom lose far more money than they ever make), or buying and holding strategically in assets you understand inside and out, like Warren Buffet (who makes very solid returns over time)? There are a number of interesting strategic considerations in investing, with many that look like big winners eventually ending up losers, many that look like losers eventually ending up winners, and some that are just roller-coaster rides that continually alternate between winning and losing until you get off the ride. It's an interesting rabbit hole to go down... but one that's ultimately a little too much like gambling for my own taste ;)

Anonymous's picture

Dear Chase,
Thanks again for an amazing article which always helps me. I am able to overcome my approach anxiety, but it still feels awkward. I know it will come with time. Although I am overcoming approach anxiety and I can get them alone and touch and shit. I get anxious when it gets time to close and am unable to do it with confidence and fast. I have a hard time manhandling and doing the really hot stuff like pushing women against walls. After I get that first kiss or first approach I do a lot better but getting there is hard and I sometimes lose girls cuz of it especially if I am tired. It sometimes feel really awkward and some girls don't tolerate it and it is a turn off. I don't know what to do. I have to work myself up before I can do it. Any advice?

Chase Amante's picture

Don't worry about manhandle kisses, wall slams, or other aggressive escalations for now. Those are for more experienced seducers - when you're comfortable with kissing and escalating overall, you'll be able to do these without worrying about them.

For now, just focus on keeping things simple - just kiss, and use time limits. Force yourself to kiss her, or kick her out, by a certain time. That will get you taking action. And if you kick some girl out because you're too scared to kiss her, you'll get so mad at yourself that you'll probably never skip kissing a girl ever again.

Dogan's picture

Hi chase, for a long time I have been a loyal follower and admirer of you and your articles, I want to be your member and log in your site as member. You know your site is access-free, there is no restriction, But I want to pay some money ( Of course I know you needn't my money :-) ), But I couldn't find a choise That sings 'only one time payment' İf I read wrong please correct me and text me back

Chase Amante's picture

Yes, that's right - there's no one-time payment for site access. The closest is the annual membership plan, which is a once-per-year payment of $197.40 - more details here.

I suppose we could always do a "Lifetime Membership" plan for $350 or so, that would be a one-time payment and simply never expire, though I'm not sure if there's demand for that. If you or anyone else want a plan like that though, reply to this comment and I'll see if that's something we can put together.

Dale's picture

A foundation stone, but not enough. I always tried to be working on severla women at a time, but knew nothing of escalation windows and auto-rejection (which I always saw as rejection). Wasted years and numerous opportunities. Several times I was dating 3 women who wanted me and I did manage to close any of them. I often recommend your site to single men, too bad it wasn't available back then.

Anonymous's picture

If she sees me as being too easy through text, how do you go about being challenging again, do i ignore her, or try and get her investing in another way.

If i keep texting her to try and revert the situation am i not seen as investing too much still?

Sorry to post this on another thread but i'm searching for an answer here.

Chase Amante's picture

If you're trying to be a challenge through texting, you've probably been using texting wrong. You should be aiming to be an interesting, sufficiently-challenging person in person, and use text purely for setting up dates with women who are already interested in you. You really can't salvage an interaction that went badly in person via text (well, sometimes you can, but it's usually so time consuming, tricky, and hit-or-miss to do that you're much, much better off focusing on leveling up your game in person, and using text for logistics).

See this article for a more nuanced understanding of what I'm talking about here, and why the "be a challenge via text" avenue is usually not one very conducive to lining up dates: "How to Text Girls: 20 More Tips and Techniques."

Anonymous's picture

How important is friendship? I know you said there are two kinds of love but is compassion really that important? Obviously you and the girl can't hate eachother but how much of friends do you need to be? It seems like the best position for a guy to be in is when he is clearly dominant or "one up" on the girl and the girl is submissive. Otherwise the relationship often falls apart, whether it's due to a lack of sexual attraction (from the girl) or something else. It's possible that different people want different things in a relationship too, but is there a way things "should" be based on your knowledge? I guess there are always two schools of thought, one that believes in evolutionary ideas and the other that is not scientific. The problem is you could find evidence supporting or disproving each school, and it makes me wonder if there's any truth to anything or if maybe for that reason I should just go for what produces results whether it's true or not.

Sorry I just opened up a bag of worms for any religion based discussion.

Chase Amante's picture

That's an interesting question. It's hard to say. Compassionate love is something people more or less develop automatically with the progression of relationships... it's pretty hard to avoid. In fact, I don't know if I've ever seen a long-term relationship without it.

I'm assuming you're talking about long-term relationships (for short-term or less, you don't really need compassion - you can take it or leave it, depending on the nation of the relationship you're looking to have). The question would really boil down to "Could you have a long-term relationship with someone you didn't care about?" Like, if she was happy or sad, you wouldn't really care... if her life sucked or was amazing, either way you'd shrug your shoulders. It seems like even low/no empathy individuals develop some degree of compassion and attachment to those they have longer-term relationships with, so this might be something that's just an endemic part of having relationships with other people.

Lukas's picture

Great article!

It´s actually funny how many pickup systems claim that you can get any woman and that attraction is everything. I think many men buy into it, only to end up frustrated. Truth is, if odds are against you, you´re likely to lose any woman. The only solution to improve the odds is to move fast and meet more women. Don´t concentrate on a woman until she´s yours. I know it´s a superficial approach, but believe me, women are just as superficial.

I´d like to add some common cases where you have no control and will lose the woman, even if she was very attracted.
- your first meeting was an extraordinary event for her and she has fear of dating you
- you can see a critical escalation window but cannot meet it due to logistics, time etc
- your and her schedules differ so much that until you arrange 2nd/3rd date, her attraction expires
- another man has compatible schedule with hers and is faster than you even if she was more attracted to you at start
- there are events in her life that distract her from you and make her attraction expire even more quickly
- she´s a woman who never texts, never calls and seldom accepts calls, so you either kind of chase her, or attraction expires
- she plays very cool and confident, but when you act upon it, she will freak out and run

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Plenty of things have been said about Frank Lampard over the past decade – both positive and negative – but you can’t deny the man’s ability to produce goals on a consistent basis.

Last night’s penalty for Chelsea in the 1-1 draw at Fulham took the England international to 150 strikes in the top flight, joining Alan Shearer, Thierry Henry, Robbie Fowler and Andy Cole in a very select group of players on or above that figure.

Lampard stands out in this list of modern greats as the only midfielder, and whilst his professional career now spans over 16 years, it’s in the last decade that the 33-year-old has risen to the fore.

After breaking his leg as a teenager at West Ham United, Lampard became a regular from the 1997-98 season onwards, and showed an eye for goal with 24 over the next four seasons.

However, the departure of uncle Harry Redknapp as manager at the turn of the Millennium signaled the end of his time at Upton Park, with Chelsea paying £11 million to take Lampard across the capital to Stamford Bridge.

In his first four seasons with the Blues, Lampard played in all-but one of the club’s matches, and reached double figures in the goals charts for the first time in 2003-04 as Chelsea took second in the Premier League.

Jose Mourinho’s arrival the following year helped the Blues to the title, and Lampard’s personal tally was on the rise once again as he added 13 goals and then 16 the following season as the west London club achieved successive championships.

His most prolific season came in 2009-10 however, hitting 22 goals in the league and 27 in all competitions. It again helped the club to a title.

The pattern appears relatively simple – when Lampard has a great season; Chelsea have a great season.

For a decade now, the central midfielder has been making the difference on the King’s Road, notably scooping the club’s Player of the Year award each time they won the title.

And, when the chips were down this season under Andre Villas-Boas, he came back stronger than ever after the former Porto chief got the chop. Under Roberto Di Matteo, he has once again become an influential figure in the side.

Whilst ‘AVB’ was right to try and make changes for the future, he was wrong to try and remove the old guard altogether. Whilst Lampard certainly doesn’t have the fitness of five years ago, he still has the ability to create space for himself to shoot, or more importantly find a pass for someone else to try and score.

And, whilst the days of him playing all 38 games in a domestic season are now gone, Lampard is certainly not over the hill. Recent performances have proved he still has plenty to offer. 37-year-old Paul Scholes could be the perfect example to suggest that there are three or four more years in the tank.

With that in mind, 200 goals might just be too much for the player, who is 37 behind Cole and a staggering 110 behind Shearer in the Premier League’s all-time scoring charts.

But that shouldn’t detract from Lampard’s achievement, especially when you consider that his game is about so much more than goals.

"I'm pleased to try to help the team and score goals. Landmarks are great. But, at the present time and with the position we're in in the league, every league game is a final for us and we want to be winning them," reflected Lampard post-match last night.

That sums up the man – more interested in his team’s fight for a Champions League place than his own personal achievements.

And it’s for that reason that Lampard is a true Chelsea legend, deserving of his place amongst club icons like Peter Osgood, Bobby Tambling, Ron Harris and a select group of others.

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